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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Angel Eyes on Wednesday 19 June 13 08:15 BST (UK)
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Hi, I've recently come across a document for the arrests of my two 4x g grandparents in Tipperary 1841. However for the like of me I cannot fully decipher the writing. It says " Sent to..... Sessions"
I'm unsure if the place they were sent was Cashel, but misspelled with a ll, or something different. It could also be Carhill or Curhill, but I'm unable to find any place name in Tipperary that matches.
Both were tried and sentenced in Tipperary, but it only mentioned the county by name with no exact location.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Sharon
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I think it could be Cashil/Cashel,but spelt Cashill ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashel,_County_Tipperary
People were not big on spelling back then ;D
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I'm thinking you might be right Carol. Cashel was my first thought but I didn't want to be presumptuous. Looking at the end of the word there is no 'dot' over the i, if that was what it was supposed to be, but the 'i' in sessions is dotted. Also if it is an 'e' then it's not written very clearly, but neither is the 'e' in sent.
Seriously, you'd think they would have had some consideration for us poor researchers a century or two down the track. ::)
I'd still love to hear of any other options somebody might have to offer though............just in case.
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Looks just like Cashill to me - and if there is no such place it could easily refer to Cashel
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I thought it looked like Carhill.
Carol
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There is a Mount Carhill in Tipperary according to google maps.
James
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It says here that " Quarter-sessions are held at Cashel , Clonmel, Nenagh, Roscrea, Thurles and Tipperary" and that was dated 1911.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Tipperary%2C_Ireland_%28County%29
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Good find Carol 8)
Carol
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Yes, the sessions were always held in the cities or larger outlying towns, so I think it might just be Cashel but with slightly illegible handwriting and poor spelling - thanks for that Carol :)
Now the bigger question is, from where were they sent ??? :-\
thanks for all your input folks - much appreciated. :)
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Carhill Sessions.
Sandra
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What is their name (and date) Angel Eyes and maybe one of us can find them?
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Nah, the handwriting is much more like Carhill and there are references to Carhill, St Mary's Clonmell, Tipperary in the Tithe Applotments
Valerie
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That's interesting Valerie, as Clonmel is close to where I am hoping they are from.
Are you sure you want this Carol.........Irish research drives me nuts. I guess I've been spoiled with the wealth of information at the Australian end, lol.
Okay, here's what I know so far..............
Thomas Halfpenny b abt 1801, Tipperary. Convicted June 1841, Tipperary, transported Nov 1841 age 40 on the Richard Webb. Convict indents stated wife Mary, 1 brother (no name), 6 children, all girls.
Mary Halfpenny - maiden name unknown as yet. b abt 1811. Convicted December 1841 Tipperary, transported August 1842 age 31 on the Hope. Five daughters accompanied her on the voyage - Johanna b 1830, Ellen b 1833, Margaret b 1836, Mary b 1838 and Catherine b 1840. A 6th daughter was left behind who I assume was the eldest child. I have no records for the girls births or baptisms - their ages are from orphanage records in Tasmania.
I have found 2 adjoining tithe applotments for Monkstown, Innishoughaght for 1826 belonging to a William and Thomas Halfpenny. Thomas was listed as a labourer on his indents. Shame they did not mention the brothers name.
Please don't go to too much trouble, but if you get bored...........lol Any help is very much appreciated. Cheers, Sharon :)
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They would have been sent to the 'Sessions' by the equivalent of the Magistrates court.
In England prior to the advent of the Crown Court cases could be sent by the Magistrates to Quarter Sessions ( Circuit judge)or the Assize Court (High Court Judge) depending on the seriousness of the offence.
James
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I don't know if you'll find anything useful here http://www.tipperarylibraries.ie/index.php/services/tipperary-studies/
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Thanks James. It definitely read as sessions, not assizes - basically petty theft of clothing, so not overly serious.
Will take a look at that link and see if I can find anything useful - Thanks Carol.
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I have just found her 'crime' in the Irish Prison Registers on Find My Past.as you say stealing a length of cloth,but the 1841 offence was her 3rd time.
They also have a list of the petty sessions,but no Mary Halfpenny in them before 1851.
Carol
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Really ??? Third offense, - should I be mortified at that ??? I'm surprised they had not transported her earlier. I don't supposed they mentioned any areas ???
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Don't panic,they were all for stealing cloth- maybe she just wanted to clothe her children?
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Or selling it to feed them :-\
Carol
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Thank you for that, you're a darling :-*
Was very much a matter of survival wasn't it..........especially for the Irish Catholics. No wonder so many of them deliberately committed crimes in the hope of transportation and a new life.
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I believe it refers to Cashel (mispelt) sessions- Even if the person was from the Clonmel area they would be sent to the nearest sessions court in the area where the offence took place.
Regards
Annclare
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Just noticed that her husband Thomas was transported earlier in the year - wonder if Mary committed the offences in an effort to be transported and re- join her husband - there are similar stories - especially as most of the children accompanied her.
annclare
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The lovely Carol has sent a doc which clearly states that Thomas was sent to Cashell - spelt with 2 ll's, and then moved to Dublin ready for transportation.
She also sent another doc for Mary on her own which gives the name of a Robert Banks as the store owner which she stole fabric from. As Carol pointed out, it's a line of investigation that might be worth looking at.
I initially wondered if that was the case as well AnnClare, but both Thomas and Mary seemed to have up in front of the courts a number of times. Of course they may have been repeat offenders until they managed to get transported. As you said, it happened a lot by folks looking for something better than what life in Ireland had to offer, especially if you were Catholic.
Also, Mary's cause would have been delayed as she would have had to petition the courts for her children to be allowed to accompany her. Would love to get my hands on that petition.
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A Robert Banks is showing in Slater's Directory 1846 in Clonmel address Malu St (think this is an error and should be Main St.)as a Linen Draper Also in Griffiths Valuation (land tax records ) printed in 1850 but compiled a few years before - showing as a landowner/property owner in Cashel St as well as other areas in Clonmel.
Links
Slater's http://www.failteromhat.com/slater.php
Griffiths http://www.failteromhat.com/slater.php
regards
annclare
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Also, Mary's cause would have been delayed as she would have had to petition the courts for her children to be allowed to accompany her. Would love to get my hands on that petition.
Unfortunately the transportation database is not showing any reference to a petition for Mary only a reference to the transportation register which very sparse details - so its unlikely anything further can be found in the National Archives. Newspapers of the time might have some details
Regards
annclare