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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: Lizzy Drippin on Friday 21 June 13 10:00 BST (UK)
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Hi, can anyone help me with this please, I am looking for Fred Bowden born 1856 New Mills Derbyshire? I think I have the right person on the 1861 and 1871 census and he marries Betsy Ann Dawson 1878 in Sheffield. After this marriage he appears to disappear. Betsy Ann has three children one in 1880 1883 and 1891. Fred worked for the railway, but it looks like he lost his job before he married, although it says signalman on his marriage certificate.
Thanks Lizzy Drippin.
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Hi
Have you got Betsy and the first child in 1881 or have you lost the whole family? Where were the first two children born - obviously Fred must have been around then? ;D What were the children's names?
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Hi Lizzy............have you had a look at the Ancestry listings of the Censuses..and seen how many Bowdens were ostensibly born in New Mills in the 1855-1860 period ????..a lot!..when in fact, according to the New Mills Parish register, there were only two..Joel and Eliza Ann..children of Eli and Marina................but no Fred Bowden..until 1909..son of Fred and Mary.....which might be your Fred in a second marriage????....should be able to tell from the 1911 Census.........One Census says he was born in Morley..I'll have a look there.................but it is confusing to see so many Bowdens 1856/7 from New Mills on the censuses, but none in the Pr's..........
I'll get back to you
Derek.
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Could this be his birth?
BOWDEN, Frederick Broadbent
Hayfield Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1854
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume 7B Page 606
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Hi from Fred's marriage certificate his father is Thomas Bowden. There is also a railway record that says New Mills. On the 1881 census Betsy is living at Attercliffe Cum Darnall with her son John William born 1880 at Strines, and her father and other members of her family. In 1883 she has Kate born Sheffield and I can only find her on the 1891 census. The last child Ivy Annie born 1891 is on the 1911 census with her mother and brother John William. Ivy states born Sheffield, but I thought I found her birth in Rotherham.
Thanks Lizzy.
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How does Betsy describe herself on each census - married/single/widow?
Have you birth certs for àny of the children - if so is Fred namned as father?
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1891
34 York Road
Attercliffe cum Darnall
William Jackson 59 Wagon builder
Jane Jackson 49
Leonard G Jackson 21 Inspector of tyres?
John W Bowden nephew 11 born New Mills
Kate Bowden neice 8 born Sheffield
Annie Cutts 19servant
3841/103/29
Heather
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1901
52 York Road
Attercliffe cum Darnall
William Jackson Head 69
Josephine Jackson Wife 59
Betsy Ann Bowden daughter 39 WIDOW
Arthur Jackson son 38 Wagon Builder
Ivy Bowden granddaughter 9
211/4386/167/37
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Presuming that Fred was Ivy's father that means he died between 1892 and 1901. The only death that fits age wise is: Frederick James Bowden aged 37 Bradford in June 1892.
However, I wonder if, given the large age gap between Kate and Ivy, that the couple had parted earlier and Ivy was not his child. In which case he may not have died, but she would have described herself as a widow in order to look respectable.
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Hi again, on the 1891 the children are living with their grandfather, but where is Betsy, I haven't been able to find her. I wonder if she is living with Ivy's father and using another name. My feeling is Ivy is not Fred's child.
I don't have any of the children's birth certificates I'm afraid.
I don't know anything about the railway, but if you lost your job, would another company employ you? I haven't been able to find a death for him either.
He would know all about changing his identity from Betsy's family. Her father down has William Jackson is really Titus Green Dawson and there lies another mystery.
Lizzy.
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Could William Jackson be her stepfather rather than her father ie her mother remarried? It is also odd that John and Kate are described as niece and nephew in 1891, when in fact they would be grandson and granddaughter.
I see that Betsey died in 1913
Betsey A Bowden
birth abt 1861
died June quarter 1913 aged 52
Sheffield 9C 730
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Titus died in 1907 and was registered under his own name odd if he has changed it to William Jackson.
Titus Green Dawson
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Jan-Feb-Mar 1907
Age at Death: 74,
Sheffield
Volume: 9c Page: 419
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I see that Titus Green Dawson married Josephine Jackson in Horncastle in 1869, at least 8 years after the birth of Betsey, so perhaps he wasn't her father?
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Is this Fred in 1871?
In Mellor
Thomas Bowden Head 42 Born Marple Cheshire Print works labourer
Sarah Ann Bowden Wife 39
Fred Bowden Son 15 born new Mills Derbyshire printworks labourer
Jane Bowden Daughter 12
William Bowden Son 10
Samuel Bowden Son 5
James Bowden Son 3
John Wild Lodger 59 Bankman?
3649/137/13
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I see that Titus Green Dawson married Josephine Jackson in Horncastle in 1869, at least 8 years after the birth of Betsey, so perhaps he wasn't her father?
I think Titus was Betsy's father -but Josephine was her Stepmother????
There is a birth reg which would fit Josephine Jackson - it looks like Jackson was her birth name.
1841
Bardney Lincs
John Jackson 20 Bricklayer
Ann 25
Josephine 6mths
all b. in countynext door
William Jackson 25 Bricklayer yes
Maria no
John 2 yes
Amey 1mth Yes
HO107 627 13 19
presuming John and Ann are Josephine's parents - this looks like them in 1851
1851
Henry Lane Bardney Lincs
John Jackson Head M 33 Bricklayer employing 2 men Bardney Lincs
Ann wife 29 Wragby Lincs
Leonard son 7
William son 5
Hannah daughter 4mth
Harriet Todd servant 14
HO107 2104 395 23
and Josephine is aunt and uncle -whose surname is Green!!!!!!
1851
South Road Wragby Lincs
William Green Head M 34 Tailor emp 1 app Bardney Lincs
Mary wife 35 Bardney
Ann Green mother widow 67 Longworth? Lincs
JOSEPHINE JACKSON neice 10 Bardney
HO107 2107 14 21
1861 Josephine is with Grandparents -and there is a Dawson with them!!!!!
1861
Bardney Lincs
John Edman Head M 66 shoemaker Bardney
Mary wife 66 Bardney
JOSEPHINE JACKSON granddaughter U 20 servant Bardney
Joseph Hayles Journeyman U 21 Journeyman shoemaker Newark Notts
Rebecca Cummings servant U 19 Domestic
Henry Dawson app 17 Bardney
next door
Judith Dawson Head W 61 Pauper Faldingworth? Lincs
Edmund Knowles son U 30 ag lab Bardney
Jabez A Dove Boarder 5 scholar Lincoln
RG9 2356 28 13
meanwhile Titus is with his 1st wife??
1861
Tetford Lincs
Titus G Dawson Head M 29 Carpenter Tetford Lincs
Ann wife 27 Swinshead Lincs
Sarah Long????? visitor W 60 S Kyme Lincs
RG9 2369 36 3
there is a marriage
Jun qtr 1860
on same page
Titus G Dawson
Ann Laughton
7a 1033
there is a death which May/may not be Titus' wife
Ann Dawson
age 35
Dec qtr 1868
Horncastle
7a 293
A real puzzle
Suz
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Could this be his birth?
BOWDEN, Frederick Broadbent
Hayfield Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1854
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume 7B Page 606
Isn't this more likely to be Fred's birth reg???
Fred Bowden
Mar qtr 1856
Hayfield 7b 598
1861
Brookbottom Mellor Derbys
Thomas Bowden Head M 30 ag lab Marple Cheshire
Sarah wife 28 New Mills Derbys
FRED son 5 Mellor Derbys
Jane daughter Mellor Derbys
RG9 2535 45 16
in 1871 Fred gives p.o.b. as Hayfield
Suz
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Yes, that does look a better one.
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Titus Green Dawson, Green comes from his mother's maiden name and he did marry twice. The mystery is why he would take his second wife's maiden name, I'm assuming they did this when they moved to the Sheffield area.
It does say Fred Bowden on his marriage certificate, not frederick and his father was Thomas a labourer. I am thinking he took off and changed his name, rather than died, otherwise there would be a record of his death.
Thanks Lizzie
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I wonder if Fred had a son Tom???
there is a grandson Tom Bowden b Sheffield living with Fred's father Thomas Bowden in 1881, 1891, 1901
Fred had a sister Jane who married in Cheshire 1888 to James Partington -they also lived with Thomas Bowden
1891 there are grandson's Tom Bowden 13, Harry 7, Harold 3
It seems very possible Harry & Harold are the illegit sons of Jane & (maybe) James Patrington - Jane later says she had 2 children -so who does Tom belong to???
Thought Fred maybe with family members but cannot find him yet
Back to Titus ages and occupations and p.o.b.'s seem to match William Jacksons ?? Possibly Titus changed his name to William (after his father) and Jackson (wife's maiden name??) Maybe that is why they moved to Yorks??
Suz
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Back to Titus ages and occupations and p.o.b.'s seem to match William Jacksons ?? Possibly Titus changed his name to William (after his father) and Jackson (wife's maiden name??) Maybe that is why they moved to Yorks??
Very odd, as by his death he was registered as Titus Green Dawson again. I wonder whether Titus's first wife didn't die and so he was married illegally and if that is why he changed his name?
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Very odd, as by his death he was registered as Titus Green Dawson again. I wonder whether Titus's first wife didn't die and so he was married illegally and if that is why he changed his name?
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It is odd but it looks like Josephine's death was registered as Dawson
Death reg FreeBMD
Josephine Dawson
age 77
Dec qtr 1918
Sheffield
9c 1626
when she too was using the Jackson name???
I think it most likely Titus' first wife died - and Betsey Ann was by 1st wife
Suz
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HI again, I think I'm safe assuming that Fred was born in 1856 at Mellor, Registration district Hayfield, and is on a couple of censuses there, before he marries Betsy in 1878. Even though I can't find anymore information do you think that his parents are Thomas and Sarah living at Brookbottom. I think Sarah's maiden name may have been Wild. At least with that information I can go back and assume Fred did not want to be found.
Lizzy.
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Hi,
I think it is pretty certain Fred is the son of Thomas and Sarah at Brookbottom. I wondered if Tom (grandson of Thomas and Sarah) was Fred's son??
With the job Fred did he could be anywhere
He may turn up sometime when you are not really looking
Suz
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Hi again, Thank you to every one for their help. At least I can work with Thomas and Sarah and if I find Fred I'll let you know.
Lizzy.
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please do - and if you find who grandson Tom belongs to i#t would be of interest
Suz
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Hi
Have you checked these 3 out?
Sarah Ann Wild christened 28th october 1832 Mellor parents Samuel Wild and Ann
Sarah Wild christened 31st May 1835 Mellor parents Joseph and Jane
Sarah Wild christened 17th August 1835 Mellor parents peter and Martha
Heather
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Hi Heather, thank you for that information, I have no idea about Sarah's parents, so I think the next step is to send for what I'm hoping is her marriage certificate.
Lizzy.