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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Puffin81 on Wednesday 03 July 13 13:47 BST (UK)
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I'm stuck, 4 days searching and I'm at a brick wall, I don't want to make a jump back based on an assumption and have some years missing
Bartholomew Keenan born abt 1838 Ireland
Bridget Keenan (believe to be o'neil) born abt 1839 Ireland
I can trace both of the above backwards from their death in Kendal to the 1871 census where there located in Carlisle. I assumed that I couldn't find them before as they were still in Ireland and as we all know then it gets complicated.
So I know in 1871 & 1881 they were living in Carlisle bartholomew was listed as an umbrella maker.
27th december 1859 a Bridget o'neil & bartholomew Keenan were married in Carlisle, listed as living in annetwell street, surely this can't be a coincidence, especially as there is no record or another couple by the name Bridget & bartholomew Keenan listed in Carlisle on the 1861 census. I have also found in 1860 bartholomew Keenan listed as being assaulted and there being some court case in Carlisle.
If this wedding was them then there was 3.5 years between the wedding and the 1st child, suggesting they may have been separated? Or a 1st child died after birth (I can't find any evidence). My local records office suggested they went back to Ireland for 2 years.
In desperation I've even got the wedding information (parents names) and searched for parents and tried to work forward and witnesses to see if any lived near by
I really don't know, but there missing from the 1861 census, if I found another couple of this name then I could at least dismiss the evidence I have.
I need help before I burn the blinking tree lol, thanks to anyone who can help. I am lost
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I'm stuck, 4 days searching
If this wedding was them then there was 3.5 years between the wedding and the 1st child, suggesting they may have been separated?
Hi and welcome to Rootschat
First of all - often there are times in Family History when I have been searching for a particular snippet of info or something, for many many years before I have finally unravelled it - so I certainly wouldnt give up after only 4 days!
Secondly, children dont always come along straight away. Some good friends of mine had been married for 14 years before a baby arrived (naturally, before IVF days), so 3 and a half years isnt that long, there couldhave been a miscarriage or two in that time too.
So, patience is the order of the day!
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Who are their fathers from the marriage cert?
I ask as there is a married Bridget Keenan on 1861 living with her parents in law. (Father in law Thomas a bricklayers labourer), so I just wondered if that was worth pursuing
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I believe I have found them in 1861. As regards a surname to search for, you are at the mercy of the transcribers. FindMyPast has RAWNSON.
However, there is Bartholmew 24, Bridget 23 and James 1, all allegedly born in Carlisle.
RG9/3914/9/17
There's a birth reg of a James KEENAN in Q4 1859.
:)
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1851 in Upperby, Cumbeland are;
Jane KINN, 52, Mar,
James Kinn, 16
BARTHOLOMEW Kinn, 13 (1838)
All born Ireland
Image is hard to read
HO107/2429/196/29
Living next door are;
William McClougley 1827
Mary 1829
John 1837
Daniel 1841
Jane 1849
Something wrong as Mary 1829 could not have a Child when 8
Possibly siblings of William except for Jane 1849
All born Ireland except for Jane
All down as Camping there.
Now in 1851 in Haltwhistle, Northumberland we have;
Jane KEENAN, 62, Mother in Law, Widow, Hawker, born Ireland
William McCLUSKEY, 33, Tinsmith, born Ireland
Mary, 30, born Ireland
Jane, 12, born Erdington, Cumberland
John, 10, born Sirinley, Cumberland
James, 7, born Carlisle, Cumberland
+ several boarders
Deaths Mar 1871
KEENAN, Jane, Haltwhistle, 10b 189, age 73
Trish :)
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Living next door to the McCluskeys and Jane Keenan in Haltwhistle is her Son James;
James KEENAN, 26, Hawker, born Ireland
Jane, 28, Wife, born Ireland
Jane, 6, Daug
Mary, 6
James, 3
Margaret, 1
Children all born Cumberland
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Sorry I forgot to say welcome to Rootschat.
Who were the Witnesses to Bartholomews Marriage to Bridget 1858?
Trish (whos off to bed in OZ) :)
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Thanks trish I think you found them in 1851, will keep this on my list, poss try working forward see if I get anything.
Now the Rawnson link, I did see this but if future census are correct then their James wasn't born until 1869, would they have named 2 children the same if the 1st had died.
The parents on the marriage record are James keenan & Patrick o'neil. Witnesses Samuel duff & Bridget curran.
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1851 in Upperby, Cumbeland are;
Jane KINN, 52, Mar,
James Kinn, 16
BARTHOLOMEW Kinn, 13 (1838)
All born Ireland
Image is hard to read
HO107/2429/196/29
Living next door are;
William McClougley 1827
Mary 1829
John 1837
Daniel 1841
Jane 1849
Good find Trish :)
It actually says N.B. These eight persons slept in tents ...
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Well that's odd isnt it? The tent part? And if it is them lucky too. Not so or them can't imagine people in tents out of choice in Carlisle in April brrrrrr
So if this is them I'm just missing father / spouse in 1851 (James)
Back to my 1861 missing bartholomew I have found evidence he lived on st Mary's in 1860 (court report) then 1871 three crowns lane, I got the codes from the national archives but can't work out how to look them up on ancestory?
St Mary's comes out as ho 107/2429 folio 42
Three crowns lane ho 107/2429 folio 492-494 & ho 107/2430 folio 196
I've tried putting them in but get Mansfield, so I'm doing something wrong
Oh and I'm so sorry you guys are helping me and I forgot to give some more info, their addresses when married were given as annetwell street.
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but if future census are correct then their James wasn't born until 1869, would they have named 2 children the same if the 1st had died.
Yes, it happened a lot. :-\
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but if future census are correct then their James wasn't born until 1869, would they have named 2 children the same if the 1st had died.
Yes, it happened a lot. :-\
Really ??? ??? :o off to look for a death of the 1st James >:(
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat!
I found this fascinating!
I've been looking at the Keenan Berry McKenzie clan with some descendants and I live in Cumbria.
From what I've seen, I'm not at all amazed to see "Tent" mentioned!
Along with "Behind a hedge", "Camping by the side of the road", etc etc !
The ones I know were various travelling people who intermarried. They were hawkers, besom makers, potters, and similar,
Many were just given as travellers or hawkers but one branch were actually Romanies and another branch were involved in pottery manufacture and settled to have china shops.
They were based round Cockermouth eventually but travelled round West Cumbria, Carlisle, Appleby, Westmorland and beyond. Some emigrated to America.
I'll look at what I have and also pass a link to the family.
The Keenans came from Ireland.
John Keenan married Elizabeth McKenzie, apparently mid 19C but never found.
One son married into the Berry family.
No guarantees but there were a limited number of Keenans around and loads have turned out to be linked.
By the way, one branch of our family has four sisters called Mary, after three died in infancy.
Enjoy Rootschat!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Thanks Emma Elizabeth Mackenzie sounds familiar but it could be cos I've seen all the names lol.
What a coincidence I actually live in Appleby so who knows I might share irish descendants to some of the locals
Finding it very sad so far, no happy story's just looks to be aload of poor people who rubbish things keep happening to
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Hi, just joined this site today so please bear with me.
My family were the Keenans from Cockermouth, James born abt 1800 in Ireland, possibly Derry and married to an Elizabeth ( name unknown ), they first show up in an 1851 census but have been recorded as Keynon, Kennon, Keaney, so it quite easy to loose track of them.
They had 7 children to my knowledge, Jane, James, Hugh, Nancy Ann ( my line ), Elizabeth, William F.,and Rachel and married local families including the Richardsons, Andersons ( Ireland ), Browns, Youngs, and Frances.
Hope some of this is of interest, please get in touch if you would like more information !
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Hi there, I would love to know more, did you manage to trace the line into Ireland? That's where I got stuck
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Hi there, I would love to know more, did you manage to trace the line into Ireland? That's where I got stuck
Yes I`ve found one census in Ireland from 1821, it has a Margrat Keenan 50yrs, farmer, James Keenan her son, 20yrs, labourer, Mary Keenan her daughter, 13yrs, flax spinner, the location has been lost through fire damage so this may not be my James Keenan ( his age is spot on ), but it took weeks to find it so I`m quite keen to hold on to it until I`ve discounted it completely,
Also on the census are McAlindon`s, McEllboy`s, McMahan`s, and McClelland`s.
I`ve recently discovered they were called O`Keenan back in Ireland and dropped the "O" later in England.
Hope some of this is of interest.