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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: WendyLou on Thursday 15 August 13 07:39 BST (UK)
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Hi all.
I am trying to solve a mystery re Samuel PARKER - born Bitton, Gloucestershire 1796; died Sep 17 1843 in Kingswood, Gloucestershire, and his family.
His 7 children have different last names ...
(1)William Parker Evans b 1821 Kingswood d 1856 Blaenavon, Wales (m Ann Evans b 1822 in Kingswood, Gloucestershire)
(2) Harriet (Hetty) Parker b 1825
(3) John Parker b 1826 d 1885
(4) Elizabeth Parker b 1827 d 1935
(5) Abner Parker b 1831 d 1891 Keynsham, Gloucestershire (m 1854 in St Mary's Bitton to Mary Gage b 1831)
(6) Ann Parker b 1835 d 1930 and
(7) Robert Parker Evans b 1836 Bitton, d 1887 Blaenavon, Wales (m Mary Ann Stock d 1879 - from Bedminster, Somerset)
My question relates to the change of last name from the father's last name of Parker, to Evans, with Parker being the middle name -but only for the oldest and the youngest sons?? The two middle boys retained the name Parker. Interestingly, the oldest son William, married an Evans ... ?
An old family "myth" said that the father was caught for sheep stealing, and the kids headed over the border into Wales, changing their name at the same time. This is plausible, but why only the oldest and the youngest changing their last name???
Hope someone can help ... thanks in advance.
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
I thought I would try and find the baptism of Samuel PARKER at Bitton first, as I might then be able to find the marriage of his parents which might have held a clue. I have checked the Bitton Baptism records and there is NO baptism of a Samuel PARKER 1795-1797.
I did, on the other hand, find a baptism for a Samuel PARKER, son of Samuel & Elizabeth, at Winterbourne on 27th January 1797.
Best I can do.
Victor
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Thanks Victor ... I was working from a Census record for his birth year, so he actually may well have been 'your find' ... I shall keep on looking, using your information now.
Much obliged.
Wendy
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hi Wendy Lou,
I can not answer your question but am as interested in the answer as you are.
My great Grandfather was Abner Parker b 1831 married to Mary Gage b1834.
They had six children
Samuel Parker b1858 in Bitton (labourer)
Jane b1859 In Bitton ( boot trade)
Tamer b1864 (boot trade)
Alice b 1867 (apprentice)
William b 1870 (scholar)
Harry b1879
Harry was my grandfather and married Laura Hawkins. They had five children,
Doris b1901 d 1960 married Walter Grindel, Walter Grindel was in the army and became Major Walter Grindel, one son Bazil lived in India then in Yorkshire.
Ethel May b 1905 d 1907
Marion b 1909 married Charles Tubb, had two sons Brian and Derek.
Harry b 1912 d1980. Married Norah Kelly, two daughters, Jean b1942, and Linda b 1947 (me)
Phyllis's, married Fred Boxall and lived in Portsmouth with four children, Roger, Robin, Jill and
Geoffrey.
None of this answers your question but if I find anything out I will let you know. Also if you would like any more details.
Kind regards, Linda.
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Hi Linda
Thanks for the additional Parker family information.
At least there's at least 2 of us on the trail ....
Regards, Wendy :)
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Hi Wendy,
I was really excited when Victor said that he had found a baptism for a Samuel Parker in Winterbourne who fitted our dates but now do not think this is Samuel Parker father of Abner.
I tried to find the Winterbourne baptisms for myself to look for possible siblings etc. I went on line to www.frenchaymuseumarchives.co.uk, clicked on archives and then Parish records Winterbourne.
I found the baptism of Samuel Parker son of Samuel and Elizabeth Parker b 27th January 1797. I tried scanning up under marriages to try to get Elizabeth's maiden name and then looked for possible siblings of Samuel and found under deaths Samuel Parker buried 27th January 1797. I rather think that this is the same Samuel and that Samuel probably only lived a few hours. Further details if you would like to check it is in the Parish Records Copy of Register 5 Gloucester (to wit) I wish that I had not found this so now we must look again. Please let me know if you find any thing.
I have also been trying to track down both William and Robert Parker Evans but as yet with out any success. There are an awful lot of Evans in Blaenavon! It is strange that only the oldest and youngest should add Evans to their name.
Kind regards
Linda.
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Hi Linda
I am pretty sure his Samuel's father and grandfather were both called Samuel ... so perhaps the death was for either of them?
I think Elizabeth was a Cook prior to her marriage - Oct 1 1788 at St James, in Bristol???? If this is right "our" Samuel had a brother John - born 1791 in Winterbourne.
Will keep looking, and thanks for your input. Maybe we shouldn't write this one off just yet :-)
Regards
Wendy
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Hi all, I am Samuel Parker's great great great granddaughter descended through Robert Parker Evans.
Samuel died in 1843 of liver disease. His wife Mary had died in 1841 of TB. The family lived in Kingswood just off Cock Road which was a notorious place for poverty and criminals. Can I recommend two pamphlets about this, which will Illustrate the conditions they lived in and why it is likely they were sheep stealers.
The Cock Road Gang by Steve Mills, Bristol Radical Pamphleteer Pamphlet 28
an A Barbarous and ungovernable people!; a short history of the miners of Kingswood Forest. By Steve Mills, Bristol Radical Pamphleteer Pamphlet 11. These are available from the Bristol Records Office.
My Grandfather, Obadiah Evans of Blaenavon, was Robert Parker's grandson. He knew him and he used to tell us, as children that his ancestors were sheep stealers from Bristol who ran away from the authorities. They came to Blaenavon to get work and changed their name to Evans to avoid detection.They chose Evans as it was a common Welsh name.
It appears that only William, John and Robert did this. Presumably Abner Parker was not involved as he is recorded in the census of 1861 as living in Gee Mor, Tennis Court Lane, Kingswood next door to the Pub the Anchor Made for Ever.
Regarding your query why they used both names. As far as I am aware they did not. When I discovered this branch of the family I had to put in both surnames (On another family research site beginning with A) to get the correct search results. They are not recorded as having used both names together on the census or any other documents. In 1841 they are all Parkers and in 1851 three (William, John and Robert) have change their names to Evans and live in Blaenavon.
Recently, criminal records from Bristol Assizes have become available and there are several instances of a Samuel Parker and a John Parker being arrested and imprisoned for short periods of time for larceny. I have not been able to find out if these are our ancestors.
I have not been able to trace any of Samuel Parker's daughters after 1841. Any information would be appreciated. I assume they married after their parents died or lived with their married relatives so I don't know their names.
Similarly I cannot find Samuel or Mary's parents. I too am not sure of the Winterbourne connection at this point. However, Robert Evans' son Obadiah (Senior) married Ann Tuck. Ann's brother Charles Tuck married Ann Tanner whose mother Rebecca and siblings came from Winterbourne and moved to Pwlldu on the outskirts of Blaenavon.
I hope this information is helpful.
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Ancestry:
Sentences of the Prisoner at Gloucester Summary Assizes 1817
Joseph PARKER and John PARKER alias EVANS
for stealing 10 shirts and shifts, and other wearing appael, value 4l, and a quantity of potatoes, value 2l from Thos. PRATTEN at Bitton.
Acquitted
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? 1841 census, Bitton
just after Kingswood
Lanthorn?Bottom
John PARKER - 75
Hannah PARKER - 75
Samuel EVINS - 15
Thomas PRATTEN is a few doors away from the family on the 1841 census
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? go back again - as these is a marriage at Bitton of Hannah EVANS - Servant to John GARLAND - (21 August 1815) with the mark of Ann X EVANS - and this couple named a son Samuel (tree on Ancestry)-
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Think Joseph PARKER on the 1851 census, at Bitton is probably Samuel's brother and he appears to have children with family names
Fools Hill
PARKER
Joseph - 50 - Coal Miner
Faith - wife - 54
Hester - 25
Samuel - 16
John - 13
(Joseph PARKER married Faith ROWBORNE 1821, St Philip & St Jacob) and on the 1841 census Bitton
PARKER
Jas - 40
Faith - 40
Thos - 15
Geo - 15
Saml - 6
John - 4
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Thank you Capetown for the new information, which will help the research. I'm "onto" it .... Much appreciated.
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Thank you for making contact, Morganale .... Robert Parker Evans is my husband's great great grandfather. Thank you also for the names of the pamphlets which will provide a little "colourful" family history!! I have a "Mary" (b 1866) married to Charles Tuck (b 1866) .... I shall certainly look into the origins of my information. It is a complex family puzzle! :-)
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Hi Wendy Lou,
Charles Tuck was the brother of Ann Tuck who was my Great Grandmother.
He was married to Mary Jenkins b 1866. They had 14 children of whom only one survived, Mary E. Tuck born 1896. This info is on the 1911 census. I have always thought how awful this must have been for them.
I have been doing more research on Samuel Parker 1796 and will post again soon with the results. I am currently trying to link various Parkers of Bitton/ Kingswood/ Oldland to each other.
Morganale
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Thank you Capetown for this information. It is very helpful. I have been doing more research on Samuel Parker 1796 and will post again soon with the results. I am currently trying to link various Parkers of Bitton/ Kingswood/ Oldland to each other.
Morganale
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Further to Capetown's information .... I have been following the Gloucestershire Prison Records. I decided to follow Samuel's brother's (John) trail. I have:
- John Parker (20 yrs) before the courts in 1816 (along with Samuel Parker age 25) for destroying game;
- again in 1817, only this time named John Parker Alias Evans from Bitton (along with Joseph Parker from Kingswood) for stealing (as discovered by Capetown);
- in 1818, aged 24, for disobeying Orders of Bastardy;
- 1820, for leaving the family chargeable (committed by Joseph Parker);
- in 1822, once more with an alias of Evans, for being idle and disorderly, and willfully neglecting his wife and two children;
- 1824, jumping bail for violently assaulting and abusing Ann Parker (a single woman);
and finally, in 1854, as a Kingswood resident, for neglecting to support his wife and 1 child.
The birth date given for John Parker for these prison sentences seem to be 1793, whereas I have found a birth record for a John Parker, (father Samuel, and mother Elizabeth) born in 1791, in Frampton-Cotterell (near Winterbourne) - I was hoping that this was Samuel (1796)'s brother. The spanner in this though, is that in the 1816 hearing, Samuel was aged 25, and John 20 years old. My birthdates for these two are the other way around ie John is the eldest brother.
Open to suggestions .... and thanks in advance.
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Hi Wendy. I am pretty sure that the records you have found are something to do with our Parkers because of where they lived. The pamphlets I mentioned (Now available on Amazon btw.) are all about a lawless gang called The Cock Road Gang that terrorised the area around Kingswood from the 1750's until the 1830's. It was like a private kingdom as they didn't recognise any form of authority. They held up stage coaches, ran a protection racket on the local farmers, imprisoned officials and burnt down the Toll Houses.
Our Parkers lived just off Cock Road (See various census addresses)so it would not be surprising if they were thieves and beat people up. There was a government commission in the 1830's into the condition of the people living there which is also an interesting read and is available on line. (Terrible conditions and poverty I'm afraid.) If you google Cock Road Gang you will find a lot of references.
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UK Prison Hulk Register & Letter Books 'Justitia' - Moored at Woolwich
Received 31 January 1817
Samuel PARKER - aged 26 - Destroy Game
Joseph WRIGHT - aged 32 - ditto
Richard BECKLEY - aged 34 - ditto
Gloucester Q Sessions 14 January 1817
Sentenced 7 years
Transported 14 April 1817
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Hi Capetown, Thanks for your post.
The record for a Samuel Parker you found on the prison hulk in 1817 and sentenced to seven years transportation, cannot be our one as he was in Kingswood in 1821, when he married Mary Holt.
I have been looking at Mary Holt but cannot find any likely parents at the moment.
I will keep trying.
btw. The pamphlets about the Cock Road Gang I mentioned to Wendy Lou are available in UK on Amazon. Googling Cock Road Gang brings up some interesting background information about Kingswood. The Parkers lived just off Cock Road in 1841.
Morganale
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Hi Wendy and other contributors. I have been researching Mary Holt wife of Samuel Parker. It was suggested that she could be the daughter of William Jellard or Jillard Holt and Ann. I have found out that Ann was Anne Gautier and have also found her mother and grandmother. However I then came across this:-Mary Hort (1796-1874) - Find A Grave Memorial
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172045123 Mary Hort (1796-1874)
Daughter of Anne Gautier and William Jillard Hort, Mary Hort was a single woman who lived in Sumter, South Carolina and served as a school teacher. Her journal is available at the University of South Carolina in Columbia, SC. 1796: Born / Baptized: 16 October 1796 / 25 December 1796 as per England & Wales,...
William was a well known preacher in Bristol and moved in quite high society circles. It is therefore very unlikely that that Mary would have know, never mind married someone like Samuel Parker, who lived in a lawless place like Kingswood. There is also the vague possibility that her surname was spelt Holt not Hort.
I have updated the Family Tree on Ancestry several times in the past few months so there may be some new information for you. Especially look at Robert Parker's wife's family - the Stocks.
Morganale
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Thanks Morganale, for this clarification.
The mystery continues ... which makes it even more interesting to pursue!!