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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: Meringue on Friday 25 October 13 13:15 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with tracing this person? He left Scotland before 1858, as he married in Swansea in that year and settled there till he died. The middle name McPherson/MacPherson runs through the family. I've been told that he was in Ballindalloch before going to Swansea and I've found a census entry in 1851 for a farm labourer at Rechlerich Farm (owned by Robert Hay). I'd really like to try to trace James' origins/parents. Oh, and I've also been told that they were Catholics. His second son (also James) emigrated to Cook, Illinois and I am contemplating contacting someone I think might be a direct descendant still living there, but thought I'd try here first. Any help anyone can give me would be very much appreciated :)
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Hi
Do you have a copy of his marriage cert showing his fathers name and occupation?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCYB-QP4
The middle name McPherson/MacPherson runs through the family.
Do you mean that James gave that middle name to his children?
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Hi Meringue
Welcome to Rootschat,
Can you give us the names of James Stuart's children please?
Looby :) :)
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First of all thank you very much for taking an interest and replying.
Marriage certificate - I'm trying to get this via my dad's elderly cousin's ex-work colleague who is friends with someone who did some research the family! However, it's taking forever to get this lady's contact details and it is very frustrating.
McPherson (and variants) middle name - it appears as a middle name on at least one of James' records and it also appears for several of his children on various records.
James's children were: Grace Harriett; Emeline Ada; William John; James; Harriet McPherson; Charles McPherson; Robert McPherson; Elizabeth Ann; Mary Elizabeth; Annie McPherson; Matilda McPherson. (William was the f-in-l's name and Harriet was the m-in-l's name).
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They are in Llangyfelach Glamorgan in 1871 and James is just shown as b Scotland 1830 - no specific county
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In 1861 they are in Carmarthen indexed as Stewart and James is shown as b 1833 Scotland - again no specific county. Elizabeth's sister Harriet Lewis 13 is living with them
I am assuming you already have all Welsh census entries and are just wanting to go backwards from James
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Stewart again in 1881 and 1891 but Stuart in 1901 and his death was registered as Stuart in 1904
One of the problems here may be whether his surname at birth was Stuart or Stewart.
When you get the marriage cert - check whether he actually signed his own name or whether he signed with an X
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This could be a real long shot - but perhaps worth investigating on Scotlands People.
Going by James's children's names I found this marriage https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT21-P47
This couple Grace McPherson and John Stuart have a good few children all baptised in the Catholic faith at Tomintoul. They have a son James baptised during 1828.
They also have an Ann, a Charles and a Robert amongst their many children. All circumstantial, of course. There is no proof yet that these are the family of James Stuart bit perhaps worth looking in to. The children's birth/christening records can be viewed on Scotlands'People.
This family are on the 1841 Census and 1851 Census at Kirkmichael but not with James on either :-\ which is a bit of a shame!!
Looby :)
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There is this 1841 entry for Kirkmichael Banff - all b Banff
James McPherson 60 farmer
Mary 60
John 28
Isabella 25
Margaret 15
Grigor Grant 15
James Stuart 14 agric labourer
Barbara Cameron 7
Charles Cameron 4
Kirkmichael ED 10 Page 3 Line 1300
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Carole,
That looks interesting too, especially with the McPherson connection.
Let's hope Meringue can find James's father's details from the Marriage Cert and we can maybe tie it all together.
Looby :)
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Meringue, if all else fails you can always send away for your own copy of that 1858 marriage certificate. It will cost you (I think) £9.25 but you might prefer that to an uncertain wait for your contact!
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Wow! Thanks everyone for taking such an interest. I have tons of information about James and his family from the time he marries in Swansea, but 0 the Scottish side. I researched possible parents for him in Banffshire, but their sons called James were still with them on the 1861 census when my James was in Swansea. However, Looby's family is very interesting. I have a farm-labouring James from the age of 10 in the Inveravon area in the 1841 and 1851 census who is not with his family. The latter one is at Rechlerich Farm, which was on the Ballindalloch estate. My dad's elderly cousin told me that James was in Ballindalloch before he went to Swansea, and that his family were 'a nasty, cruel bunch', but didn't expand on this, so he could have been made to make his own way in the world from the age of 10. This is a fantastic new lead. Thank you all so much for your help. I'll let you know when I get the marriage certificate! :)
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I got the marriage certificate this morning (decided to buy it) and the only helpful information is that James Stuart's father was John Stuart and he was a joiner. This would fit with Looby's family, so I think it's worth looking into that lead further. If anyone has any useful information on them, I'd be very grateful.
Many thanks :D
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The 1841 for the John & Grace Stuart in earlier reply shows John's occ as "merchant" but in 1851 he is a carpenter which looks very promising indeed
1851
All b Kirkmichael Banffshire - address Lyngarie
John Stuart 50 carpenter
Grace 48
Ann 24
Alexander 20
William 13
Charles 10
Robert 7
Daniel 5
Peter 2
Kirkmichael ED 5 Page 2 Line 6
1841 - address Lyngary
John Stuart 40 merchant
Grace 35
William 10
John 8
Donald 6
Alexander 3
Charles 3 Months
Kirkmichael ED 5 Page 2 Line 710
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1861 for Kirkmichael - address Lyngarrie - all b Kirkmichael
John Stuart 65 general carpenter
Grace 59
Charles 20
Daniel 15
Peter 12
Ann 34
Grace Fraser 10 grandchild
Kirkmichael ED 3 Page 3 Line 2
As Grace died after 1855 - her death cert will give her parents names and mothers maiden name
If her parents were James & Mary McPherson - then the 1841 entry for James would link him to John & Grace
Mary's maiden name may possibly have been McGregor if this baptism is one of theirs
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XB38-2BX
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Gosh Carole, thank you so much for that. It was really, really kind of you to provide all that information for me. I'm now intrigued as to why James left the family so early and hope that my dad's cousin's contact might have something....if/when I ever get her phone number, of course. This is the one remaining branch of my dad's family that I haven't managed to trace back to the mid-1700s, but with the help you and Looby have given me, I will hopefully manage the same with this family. I can't thank you enough. :D
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Daughter Ann isn't on the 1841 either and was a similar age to James so was probably also sent out to work - probably as a servant
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John & Grace were still going strong in 1871
Lyngarin cottage
John Stewart 75 carpenter
Grace 68
Ann 40
Robert 26
Grace Fraser 19 grandchild
Kirkmichael ED 3 Page 3 Line 2
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Gosh Carole, I really can't thank you enough. The link with the McPhersons on the 1841 census is looking very good. I'll have to check 1851 out, as if James is no longer with the McPhersons, he might be the James I have at Rechlerich Farm on the Ballindalloch estate, which would tie in with my dad's cousin telling me he was from Ballindalloch. The ages are slightly at odds, but that was not unusual (you only have to look at Grace's fluctuating age on the census records). It's certainly looking like a very neat package and I will do some digging to see what more I can find. Many thanks, once again. I hope that I can pass on your kindness by helping someone else the way you've helped me :D
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Last night I managed to track down Lyngarrrie on Google Earth by cross-referencing using an old OS map, and there is still a cottage on the site. I was surprised at how remote it is. It can't have been easy working as a merchant or carpenter from there.
With regard to James possibly being with his grandparents on the 1841 census, James's first daughter, Grace, did not appear to live with her parents - she was b.June 1859, but was not with her parents in the 1861 census, was living with James' mother-in-law on the 1871 census, and never appeared on a census at her parents' home. It took a while before I even realised that she was their daughter! Maybe they had a custom of handing over their first child to be raised by their in-laws as soon as their second child was born? I suppose it spread the burden and cost of child-rearing at a time when families were quite large and homes quite small.
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Hello,
I believe I can be of some help to you as John Stuart and Grace McPherson are my 4th Great Grandparents. Their son William is my 3rd Great Grandfather. Grace passed away in 1894. Her parents are John McPherson and Margaret Grant. I have all the documents such as birth, marriage, and death.
I may be able to help you but I don't believe their was a James Stuart. I'll check with my family, they seem to remember quite a bit as info was passed down the Stuart line.
Cheers!
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I may be able to help you but I don't believe their was a James Stuart.
LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp indexes the Roman Catholic baptism of James, son to John Stewart, wright in Bualbain of Fodderletter, and Grace McPherson, born 28 August 1828. So whatever the family tradition says, there clearly was a James.
Maybe that could be circumstantial evidence for a major falling-out between James and his family, resulting in his move to Swansea?
I would not read anything at all into the spelling of the surname BTW.
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I haven't had the chance to repost after my last one. Yes, there was a son, James. I have his birth certificate here. Oddly, I cannot find him on any census' at all.
My family is asking around as to what may have happened to him as to why he was gone at such a young age. Unfortunately, we may never know the answer. My dad said that the Stuart's were always big on family, very close knit. It was a tradition that they always got together so, why he was gone so young is unknown. James is one of my Great Uncles and I would love to know what happened to him. I find it very sad at such a young age.
If I find out anything more, I will for sure post. Oh, and BTW, I know about the variations in spelling. Believe me I know.
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Hi btstuart09 and Forfarian,
First of all, thank you both so much for contacting me. I just looked here by chance, not expecting to find anything new (I've moved email providers, so didn't get a notification-oops!). This is definitely the right person, as the dates for everyone match with my records. I scoured the Scottish census information online and found a possible match for James on the 1841 Kirkmichael census (ED10, p3, line 1300), aged 14 and working as an agric. labourer in Kirkmichael on the farm of a James McPherson (60, farmer) and May (60). I wondered if James and May McPherson would be his grandparents: his mother's parents, John and Margaret (who was also known as Mary and Mary/ria). I then found an entry for a James Stuart, aged 21, on the 1851 census for a place called Rechlerich Farm, par of the Ballindalloch estate, which is a place name that was passed down in one branch of the family. I'm not too worried about the age discrepancy, as judging by many of the records I've seen, most people just took a guess at their approximate age most of the time. I've also learned not to pay too much heed to the spelling of names, as long as they are phonetically the same.
On the subject of the family split, I did wonder if it could have anything to do with religious differences? My Welsh aunties were quite shocked and upset to discover that their close ancestors had been Catholics, as they are pretty much all devout Methodists and always have been. I can only assume that James was likewise a practising Methodist, or my aunts would have known.
I have now amassed quite a bit of information myself on the broader family tree going back to John's parents, Donald and Margaret, and would be happy to share what I have if you are interested. I'm currently digging around trying to see if I can get any ideas for Donald's parents, but it's like trying to run up a hill covered in treacle!
Thanks again :D
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Hi Meringue,
Donald and Margaret are my 5th Great Grandparets. We do have his father but we are not 100% sure. We are looking for more concrete evidence. As for James and Mary (Mayria) McPherson, they are Grace McPherson's (John's wife) parents. John and Grace are my 4th GGrandparents as James and Mary are my 5th.
I have tons of stuff here on my family which I'm guessing is yours too. LOL. I wonder what our relation would be. Cousins of some sort. You can private message me and I will send you my email and I can send you some stuff if you want and we can exchange info.
The Stuart's were Cathloics for quite sometime. When my GGGrandfather moved to Canada in 1882, I think he switched to presbyterian as that is what I am and the rest of the Stuart clan here. Who knows what could have happened. I've been asking around but unfortunately, no one knows and may never know.
Send me a message and we can converse through email and what not. :)
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Hi btstuart09,
I've sent you a private message with my contact details. We definitely share ancestors in John & Grace and their parents, Donald & Margaret. I'm guessing that as James and William were brothers, we're some kind of second cousin three/four times removed? I'm thinking that you are descended on the male line, whereas my family deviated through the female line (Donald, John, James, Harriet (who married Davies), Elizabeth (who married McVicar), my dad, and then me. It's quite funny to think that both sides of my dad's family came from both sides of Scotland to South Wales! Anyway, I look forward to hearing from you :D