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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Finley 1 on Monday 31 March 14 11:59 BST (UK)
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Thomas Norris and Mary Siddons had 5 children, one of them being Jane Norris my g.g. gran.
So tyding up her siblings…. I found Elizabeth 1829 had a daughter Betsy in 1847… out of wedlock, but then went on to marry Thomas Brown and had maybe 5 more children and in 1878 seemingly adopted a boy William Rowton – who sadly only lived 2yrs.
Now these Brown children are seen through - out the census rtns with either their Gran (Mary) or their aunt Louisa. Query reason for this??? Who knows.
Anyhow on checking Aunt Louisa born 1838 - she doesn’t seem to marry. And I can find her in Census up to 1891 and then nothing, YET I have her death as 1914… where did I get that from? Cannot remember (do not seem to have a cert?)
Anyhow I then went through the 1897 and it shows her in Laxton Street which is correct, with her mother Mary and then:
6 children down as Grandchildren and considering Mary is down as Head… should mean they are her Grandchildren -
Now 3 of them are either named Goadley or Gradley which I cannot account for:
The others are Brown – which I have followed (mostly) and know they are Elizabeths.
So who do the Goadleys belong to?!?! And where does Louisa go in 1901 --
Marys children are: Elizabeth who married a Brown (albeit eventually ) Frederick who died in Infancy. Jane my g.g. Gran. Louisa who didn’t marry!? And a.n.other Frederick who also died as a baby.
For the Goadley/Gradleys to be grandchildren – Maybe Mary had a.n.other child before Elizabeth.. The eldest Goadley/Gradley is Edwin age 34 in the 1871 so born circa 1837 - which means his mother would have to have been born 1817????? Ish Mary was born 1804 – so for the Goadley/Gradley parent to have been her child she would have been 13…………………………………………………………… uhm
Crazy it is an interesting search… would love to find more Will have to look again for Goadley/Gradleys haven’t found them yet?
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I think the surname is GOADBY - Edwin, Elizabeth and family are under that name (or a variation) in other censuses.
It seems possible that Elizabeth NORRIS married Edwin after Thomas BROWN died:
Marriages Dec 1868
(possible spouses)
BROWN Elizabeth
GOODBY Edwin
Leicester 7a 379
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The 1871 census looks confused. Although Edwin Goadby (and I'd agree it's probably that spelling) is shown as grandson to the head of the household, the enumerator has put in the double lines to show that it's a separate household (albeit it looks like the same address). Edwin and Elizabeth Goadby are married, both aged 24, with a 1 year old son Harry. That would give Edwin a yob around 1846 (there was another Edwin Goadby b Leic 1836ish who is shown in the censuses over several years, living all over the country with his wife, also Eliz/beth - to add to the confusion!)
Sarah Brown (17), Emma Brown (10) and John Brown (5) are then shown with more double lines between them, but all as grandchildren of the head of household.
Mary Norris is heading up the household, age 66, as mother of Louisa age 32. All are born in Leicester.
The dates wouldn't seem to tie in with Elizabeth Norris/Brown marrying an Edwin Goad?y.
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If that is the correct Edwin (b 1846-7, living in Laxton St in 1871), then this might be him in Welford Rd, plot UF 330:
TURNER ANN 1863 FEB 5 32 29 LYNDHURST STREET SAINT GEORGE
GOADBY JANE 1892 OCT 4 67 CARDIGAN STREET SAINT MARY
GOADBY JOHN 1893 FEB 22 79 CARDIGAN STREET SAINT MARY
GOADBY EDWIN 1893 JUL 20 47 CARDIGAN STREET SAINT MARY
The 1891 census shows Edwin Goadby, age 45, in Cardigan St with his wife Elizabeth and assorted children, but this time his place of birth was somewhere illegible in the E Indies! The grandparents are also there -John Goadby age 76 (pob somewhere in Leic'shire I think but it's v faint) and Jane age 64, from St Albans.
I'm not sure this helps at all!
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1861 census - Ann Turner was a "visitor" b Cheltenham, staying with the Goadbys. Edwin and his brother George have their POB as Hindustan. and John was b Market Bosworth, and seems to have been governor (or deputy?) of the local gaol.
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More in Welford Rd:
Plot UR1 3226
NORRIS THOMAS 1870 APR 20 71 LEICESTER UNION HOUSE
BROWN THOMAS 1871 JAN 29 44 LEICESTER INFIRMARY
DRAYCOTT CHARLES EDWARD 1871 FEB 5 2YRS 6MTHS BONNERS LANE
NORRIS MARY 1873 JAN 15 68 LAXTON STREET SAINT MARY
ROWTON WILLIAM NORRIS 1883 AUG 1 5 LAXTON STREET SAINT MARY
OLDBURY FREDERICK C 1912 APR 24 50 32 GOSLING STREET LEICESTER
Plot UR 1892:
TOPLEY JOHN 1863 NOV 22 46 RICHARD STREET
CHESTERTON ALBERT 1885 AUG 21 10WKS WARING STREET
SEAL HARRIET 1895 JUN 5 67 MILL LANE
DRAYCOTT ANNIE 1895 NOV 8 51 LEICESTER UNION HOUSE
GOADBY ROSE ETHEL 1898 JUN 24 12MTHS LAXTON STREET
NORRIS LOUISA 1914 APR 21 76 31 LAXTON STREET
Is Draycott another name connected with the family, or is it coincidence that there are Draycotts in both these graves?
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More!
Plot Ur1 2914
HALL GEORGE HARRY 1870 AUG 21 1MTH HEANOR STREET
LAY EMILY 1886 SEP 7 2MTHS TALBOT LANE
LAY JAMES ARTHUR 1888 MAY 23 3MTHS OLD MILL LANE
HUBBARD FRANK HENRY 1914 FEB 25 6MTHS
BROWN EMMA 1930 SEP 15 72 31 LAXTON STREET
BROWN SARAH 1931 JAN 31 75 31 LAXTON STREET
So knowing that they stayed at the same address, I was able to find them in the other censuses; 1n 1911, Ancestry has mistranscribed Louisa's surname as BORRIS; whilst in 1901, she was MORRIS ::)
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Oh crikey...... been on 'Sally Ann' (my new sewing machine) dashing up some Trews for my grandson and all the while desperate to get back to this lot......
Now all this wonderful information to digest.
Yes Draycotts and Norris related.... will read it all through again to see what you have found
thank you looks like you got it sussed ......... or a long way towards it :-*
xin
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Getting there, They SHOULD be down as Edwin Grandson - in - law
as he marries Elizabeth Brown.....................who I presume is Betsy Brown..bn 1847c.......................... maybe that bit is sussed .. whew ...
I hope to work the rest out................. having glanced at it again, not so sure :)
just wish he would make his mind up where he was born ???
thanks for help
xin
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If Edwin m Betsy Brown, that would fit with the marriage above re "Edwin Goodby" and Elizabeth Brown in 1868.
I've got the burial details for Elizabeth, and for Sylvia Brown too, but I don't think they add a lot to the party.
Both Edwin and George his brother name India as their place of birth in all but that 1871 census and I seem to remember that I found Edwin's father listed as an "army pensioner" somewhere so I'd guess that maybe he was in India with the army?
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Yes thanks for that, it is a possible......
I saw mention of a chelsea pensioner (cant remember which census now :) but have filed it to view later ) -
Will try and check if its Betsy.... I think that even though Betsy was born pre-marriage, when checking Thomas Brown out....... he had a sister Betsy..... so maybe he is the'daddy' ...
Should send for that cert....... to see.... (the dots are my brain ticking)
I had to find the 1901 for louisa by searching for emma brown!!!!! ridiculous.
ok... feed me time.
xin
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Can come in with the marriage to Edwin, pity it's not St Margaret
1868 24-Dec St John the Divine
GOADBY Edwin Leicester
BROWN Elizabeth
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Thanks for that, maybe thats the cert to send for cos I have her birth cert. (that is if she is Betsy)
It may show her date of birth and or whether she is named as thomas ' daughter........
thinking (again)
xin
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Hi
This looks like the Baptist Record for Edwin
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGSG-M31
Margp
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And one for George
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG3S-X5X
It looks like they had a sister Ann
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG3Q-7VT
Margp
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Thanks MargP
great info.
:D
xin
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Your welcome :) :) :)
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Jane was very young when they married, if Ann is indeed their daughter!
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Hi
This looks like there marriage
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGNS-X4P
Margp
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crikey 14 yrs must have been the hot climate? ;D ;D I have a grandaughter of that age, I would go crazy if she thought of marrying ....... still times have changed. I left school at 14... she wont leave for at least four years.
The wonderful sun is shining and I have to visit, my sad little house, to see if its coping without me............ :-\ :-\ :'( :'(
So this will sadly have to 'espere'
xin
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Just having a re-think about the grandchildren etc on Mary's 1871 census return.
And realised that if they are Betsy/Elizabeth Norris/BROWN - married to Goadby's offspring ............... THEN they are Mary's GREAT grandchildren.................... ??? ::) Is that correct!?!?
Whoops NO I am sure that this is now correct:-
one of these Goadbys is Elizabeth/Betsey so she is grandchild the other is her husband Edwin so he is Grandchild by marriage.. the other is Henry -- Edwin and Elizabeths son so he is the great grandson of Mary.........
I cant imagine, that it is feasible for Elizabeth (Mary's daughter) to be the mother of these children.....and married to Goadby....
Cos she was definitely married to Thomas Brown I have the cert. it states she was of full age and a spinster daughter of Thomas Norris (bricklayer) and living in Colton Street, witness Jane Norris and James Brown. Dated the 13th March 1852.
We (or you really) have found Edwins parents etc - and neither of them are related to Mary or Thomas Norris.... So they are Grandchildren by marriage!/ and been as none of Marys Daughters fit then it has to be Betsy !! I think - omgggggggggggg getting mixed up again... (DARK corner required )
sending me silly this lot. ;D >:( :-\ ;D ;D
xin
and....... addendum... I have Thomas Norris death cert and for some reason he was in the workhouse when he died, yet the family were still living in Laxton Street. He was with family in 1861 and Betsy Brown was with them as a lodger?
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OK sorry to be a pain..........
But have just searched ALL Betsey Browns of the time in question.. circa birthdates and places.
The only other possible married a William Breward.... So checked them out through-out the census returns to 1911 and found that in 1911 This Betsey brown/BREWARD has her brother GEORGE living with her and was born circa 1842 SO this convinces me that this is NOT my Betsey.
And as far as can be I conclude that ELIZABETH is my Betsey...... and will go with the Goadby crowd.... ok can rest now and put the light back on ;D ;D ;D
xin
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Its me --- ;) back again
Just as a note,
it really - really pays to study these census returns............
Just refreshing my mind on the 1891 showing Louisa Norris, with the Brown children, in order to sort out what happens to the children.
And glanced up a line or two and noticed the name, Albert A Green........ as a boarder living with the Oldbury family...
WELL well well, Albert Alexander, I was working on a few weeks ago.. he is my .g.g.Uncle. his Nephew was My grandfather, .......Robert Argyle Green - Whose Mother was Emma Draycott, eldest daughter of Jane Norris.........Emma was married to Albert's brother... so this could be how they met.
Its great to be able to piece relationships together, like this... brings them closer..
I can imagine Albert and his brother my G. grandfather, bumping into Emma when she visited her Aunt or something, similar. lovely.
;) ;)
xin
oh..... just a minute, I just looked for a marriage of Mary Brown born 1862..... as couldnt find her still with any Browns in 1891...when 'gulp' ::) :o I found that she actually married Frederick Charles OLDBURY............. the neighbour that Albert boards with - It started off strange and now its becoming absolutely crazy......
Oh I need to pop back to see them all and sort it out...... IF only I could find a wedding photo of Mary or someone - I am sure they would all be on it.
xin
and then the final child John Brown, again thinking an impossible find...... he is in the 1901 married and living next door to Albert Alexander Green and the Oldburys which of course includes his sister Mary........
So happily found what was necessary with this lot... all thankfully, because they were a close knit family.
an interesting search for me...... thank you all...
:)
xin
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I have just picked this up as I was checking my RECORDs ---- and I now believe it to be one of the craziest searches ever... 'FRUITFUL' in many ways --- but absolutely full on crazy... and with the head I have these days almost impossible to ... 'suss'' ''''''' oh dear..
??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::) ::)
Xin aka Finley
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Evening Xinley ;), hope you’re keeping well!
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Thank you Annie
Hope you are well too :)
Much improved at the moment.. maybe the Lockdown is doing me good.. :) fingers crossed anyhow luv the Xinley thank you xx
take care
the new me Xinley ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D