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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: alexscotney on Wednesday 28 May 14 19:20 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with links to parish records for Denbighshire? I am trying to locate the early years in the life of Ellen Evans, born 1850 to father Thomas. She is my 2nd great grandmother. She married Henry Lund in 1876 and then Thomas Dixon in 1896. In both the 1881 and 1891 census her birthplace is given as Nantyr, Denbighshire. Unhelpfully, the 1901 census gives her birth place simply as Aber (I say unhelpfully - is there a place simply called Aber??) I have tried to find her birth certificate but without success. A search on Familysearch earlier has thrown up a couple of baptism records which seem close by geographically and are my best hope yet, but there is no info about parents: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Aellen~%20%2Bsurname%3Aevans~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1849-1851~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Athomas~&collection_id=1419318
My question is, is there any way of seeing the records online?
UPDATE - having done another search through the census entries for 1851/1861, I have found the the following references:
1851: HO107/ 2499/ 569 Page: 5
1861: RG9/4313/ 62 Page: 12
Now I believe these might the right entries - not least because Jane Evans, who appears on the 1861 census, might be the same Jane Evans who was a witness to Ellen's first marriage. The ages and names of the family all tally from one census to the next.
The only slight doubt I still have is regarding place names. Although the census states Llangadwaladr is in Denbighshire, I can only appear to find it on Anglesey. Can anyone reassure me to this end?
Many thanks
Alex
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Llangadwaladr was indeed in Denbighshire and you will see that Nantyr was one of its Townships;
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llangadwaladr/index.html
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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That's superb William, thanks for your help. This has led me to think I've got the right person/family. However, in terms of a registered birth, given the date (she was 3 months old at the time of the 1851 census - April) the only possibility I've been left with is an Ellen Evans registered in Ruthin. It is 28 miles or so away though. Does that sound likely, or should I try a bit closer to home, or might it just be that the birth wasn't registered full stop?
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Is there a possibility she may have been named Eleanor, but called Ellen?? This would be the right reg district for area born.
Births Mar 1851
Evans Eleanor Llanfyllin 27 74
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Whilst as I say it is and was recorded as being in Denbighshire,given that it is very close to Montgomeryshire and also Merionethshire,I'm afraid it is one of those places where you can't be too literal searching for a birth!
As far as the GRO births it will have been recorded as in the Llanfyllin District of Montgomeryshire.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Is there a possibility she may have been named Eleanor, but called Ellen?? This would be the right reg district for area born.
Births Mar 1851
Evans Eleanor Llanfyllin 27 74
Yes it looks pretty good to me!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Whilst as I say it is and was recorded as being in Denbighshire,given that it is very close to Montgomeryshire and also Merionethshire,I'm afraid it is one of those places where you can't be too literal searching for a birth!
As far as the GRO births it will have been recorded as in the Llanfyllin District of Montgomeryshire.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Oh drat...I've literally just ordered a GRO search for Merionethshire as I'd seen a record for Dolgelly. Still, if that isn't the one at least I'll get a refund...again! And thanks to Cas, I know the next record to try and hit!
Thanks all! :)
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Registration Districts of England/Wales www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg
Click on"Index of Place Names" and you can check the appropriate Reg Dist. for Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiliog and Llangadwaladr in 1850/1851
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Just to say that the 1851 Ellen Evans' parents were Thomas & Ann of Plas Nantyr. Baptised (as Ellen) on 9th February, aged 7 weeks. From my Glynceiriog records :)
Gadget
PS - I used to cycle up to Nantyr on my bicycle when I was young - it was not an easy ride ;D
Map http://www.rootschat.com/links/0zv9/
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Well done Gadget :)
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Just to add that that area was in the Corwen Reg District not Llanfyllin:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/corwen.html
Gadget
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Llangadwaladr parish was in two parts - one part in the south near Llansilin and one in the North near Glyn Ceiriog. Plas Nantyr was Glyn Ceiriog, which was in Corwen RD:
Civil Registration
When Civil Registration was introduced (on 1 July 1837), the parish of Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog was assigned to the No. 2 ("Corwen") sub-district of the Corwen Registration District; which was co-extensive with the Corwen poor law Union.
In the GRO indexes to civil registration, entries for Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog are in the format :
Years 1837 - 1851: Corwen XXVII. nnn
Years 1851 - 1930: Corwen 11b. nnn
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/LlansanffraidGlynCeiriog/index.html
Gadget
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North Wales BMD have 2 registrations for an Eleanor Evans in Corwen RD - 1850 and 1851. I think the 1851 one would be the most likely.
Gadget
Added - the 1851 one was Dec - could be that she wasn't registered -not a criminal offence back then.
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Just wondering why you need a birth reg as you have the baptism info. Do you need Ann's maiden name?
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Wow! Thanks for your work everyone! :o
I've tried to get my head around this again and am still a little bit fuzzy. I have previously conducted two searches for Denbighshire for Ellen Evans, one for 1850 and one for 1851, but the GRO has thrown nothing up.
This leads me to think one of the following:
1) The birth was not registered - and so it is Gadget's baptism record which is the key
2) The birth was registered as Eleanor (or some derivation thereof) - supported by the first census entry
3) The birth was registered in a county other than Denbighshire - though for Q1 1851 that only leaves 4 options. I have ordered the certificate for Dolgelly but this now looks unlikely - the others are for Ellin Evans, 2 in Anglesey and one in Carnarvon.
Personally, I'm hoping for 1) but expecting 2) to be the likely outcome.
Thanks once again
Alex
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Just wondering why you need a birth reg as you have the baptism info. Do you need Ann's maiden name?
I just like having things neat and tidy - I am only missing one birth certificate in my family back to this generation apart from Ellen's. I'm unlikely to get any further back on this branch without a maiden name, so yes, that's why I'm looking for a certificate.
Alex
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I see that they are officially recorded as Llangadwaladr in 1851 rather than Glynceiriog and that Ann(e) was b. Llandrillio. maybe married circa 1848 ish - will have a look at the records
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This could be the marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC1X-QX3
Ann Jones
Added - not this one!
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I've found the bpt of the older child, Thomas, in 1848 in Glynceiriog (b. 4 March 1848) . From the address, there might be another marriage to an Anne Davies - will investigate further and get back to you. I'm having to trawl through a few records!
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Hi again
I think the Anne Davies marriage is correct. See this 1841 census for Anne in Llandrillo with parents Evan and Eleanor:
HO107/1428/20/4/12
This fits with the information on the later censuses.
Gadget
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Is there a possibility she may have been named Eleanor, but called Ellen?? This would be the right reg district for area born.
Births Mar 1851
Evans Eleanor Llanfyllin 27 74
Hi Gadget so with your knowledge of area, do you think this maybe correct?
Cas
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It's the most likely one Cas. Otherwise, she wasn't registered. And given that Anne's mother (and twin sister) appears to be an Eleanor/Elinor, the first born might well be named after her.
I think I've also found the baptism of Anne and her twin sister, Eleanor, in Llandrillo as well as Thomas snr. at Berllan Helig/Helyg*.
Thomas and Anne moved to Glynceiriog proper in later censuses. Their later children do have names that might be linked to Anne's sisters!
It would seem sensible to have the first two children baptised in Glyn, as the vicar was nearer than the Llangadwaladr one!
Got to go and paint some wood now :o
Gadget
*Added - Berllan Helig was between Tregeiriog and Nantyr Ucha on old-maps
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This modern map shows how close, relatively, Llandrillo was to the Ceiriog valley:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/010c1/
Just a big climb and descent of the Berwyns - my ancestors did similar trips ;D In fact, apart from the Scottish and Shropshire ones, they all came from the area covered by the map!
Gadget
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Great area incite and info you have posted on anothers FH..as always Gadget, hope all is well. Don't strain the eyesight too much painting
Best wishes as always
Cas :)
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Wow. Thanks a lot Gadget! One day I hope I can do for others what you have done for me this week....a long way away though methinks!
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It's not that kind of painting, Cas. it's strips of wood to attach to windows for roman blinds ;D
But thanks for your concern. It is nice to have you back on board :)
Alex - a pleasure. Others have helped me search for rellies in USA and Canada :)
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Gadget thank you. Very nice to be back I must say, I missed Rootschat and FH. But family needs must when my dau died, her children and work, no time... the girls are now teens :P
Sorry to highjack the thread Alex..let us know :)
Cas