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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: christineann on Friday 13 June 14 21:24 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone, I wonder if anyone might be able to take a look at the electoral registers for the above address in Wellingborough around the time of WW2. I realise that it may be either before the war or just after as I don't think they did the electoral registers during the war.
My mum, who is 91, was a Land Army girl at a farm just a short walk up from Wellingborough Station from 1943-1945. The above farm seems to fit where she has described when I looked on a 1948 Ordnance survey map. She knows the farmer's christian name was George and he had a son Trevor who got married whilst she was there. She went to his wedding and says it was in a church but is not sure of the area but they travelled in a vehicle. I've checked the Wellingborough marriages for a Trevor during the above years but there are none so am going to look further afield as he probably got married in his bride's parish. I've also sent for the marriage certificates of all Trevors who married in Northampton registration district from 1943-45 but none have the father as George, occupation farmer. I intend to send for others in nearby registration districts.
Mum would like, if possible, for us to try and trace the descendants of George's family as she said they treated her like a daughter. It's not an easy task but if anyone can help, I would be most grateful. :)
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Hi christineann .
The Northants Record Office have Electoral Registers for Wellingborough.
Wellingborough
1918-1939, 1945-1995
Maybe asking them to have a look if no one here can search for you.
Also the Wellingborough Musuem or Library may be able to help.
Sandy
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Thanks Sandy, I will give Northants Record Office a ring next week to see if they can help or may even visit myself as I am thinking of taking my mum into the area again to see if she can remember the places she stayed which included Denton, Wilby and Wellingborough. We live in Yorkshire so it's quite a way but not impossible.
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I think the name might be AUSTIN ... based upon the idea that farms often 'stay in the family'.
The 1911 census shows Frank and Lilian Austin living at Brook Farm with their 3 sons, the eldest of the three being George Sturgess Carter Austin aged 12 (born Brixworth).
Bryan.
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... but it might also be CARTER ...
The 1901 census shows Frank & Lilian Austin at Bugbrooke Hill Cotts, Kislingbury, with son George S Carter.
Frank Austin & Lilian Carter married Brixworth MarQ 1900.
George Sturgess Carter born 1899 Brixworth (died 1975 Kettering).
There's a George S Carter married Winifred Abbott DecQ 1925 Wellingborough, but not found children yet.
Bryan.
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Frank Austin died 1937 Wellingborough, so there is the possibility he was at Brook Farm until then with his son taking over the running of the farm.
I'll see if the library is any help tomorrow.
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Hi Bryan
I did take a look at the 1911 census and saw that the Austins were living there but didn't find the marriage for their son George Sturgess Carter so thanks for that. Like you, I can't find any children from their marriage and would have loved to have found a Trevor :) as the dates are about right for his birth. I'm still trying to find out who lived at Brook Farm in the 1940s and have ascertained that the electoral rolls are kept at Northants Record Office. Their search fees are £25 per hour so think I may take my mum down to re-visit the area and go to the Record Office at the same time.
There are allotments next door to Brook Farm, as there was in 1945 according to the Ordnance Survey Map I looked at, and I have been in contact with the Chairman of these. He was very interested and is going to talk to some of his older colleagues to see if they remember anything of the farm which appears to have been demolished now.
Thanks for your help.
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Hi christineann
Wellingborough Library yesterday, Wellingborough Museum today.
Neither Brook Farm nor its occupants appear to be mentioned in any of the local directories that I've found 1896-1964.
The local newspaper (at Museum) - Wellingborough News 17 Aug 1934 - shows death notice for Lilian Mary Austin at Great Harrowden aged 54 ... whilst this might only be a few fields away, I think it enough to imply that the family had moved from Brook Farm by this date. No death notice for Frank D Austin found 1937.
There's a very, very, outside chance the Musuem can help you. They have 3 photographs of land army girls, a group, a pair, and a single, all unidentified. Maybe they could make them available to you online or by email. Worth an ask ... http://www.wellingboroughmuseum.co.uk
Might be able to make it to Record Office tomorrow, if that helps.
Bryan.
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Hi Bryan
Thank you so much. You've been very helpful! I was wondering myself if Brook Farm might have other occupants by the 1940's, although I know that many farms did pass through families from one generation to another.
I have spoken to Melody at Wellingborough Museum and we had a really interesting chat. Thanks to you she knew all about my quest and I've sent her an e-mail with all the info, together with my mum's Land Army certificate and several photos of her in Land Army uniform, two of which were taken in the fields on the farm. Melody is going to try and send me the photos of the Land Army girls they have at the museum.
I hope, after all this, that I have located the right farm but as far as I can see this is the only one within a 15 minute walk of Wellingborough Station up a track as mum said.
I really appreciate your offer of a visit to the Record Office if possible. Once again, thanks for your help.
Christine
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I gave Melody some info last week on a Wellingborough Soldier. :)
Went over took my memory stick and left the picture at home on drive.
Luckily I had printed a picture of the soldier so it wasn't a complete wasted journey.
I could see (unless Bryan can) if the Northampton Library have any pictures of Land Army
Girls you never know, if they are open when I try.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Thanks for your offer, it's much appreciated. You never know what might turn up!
Melody at the Museum told me about 'Wellingborough now and then' on Facebook and there is a photo of Wilbye Grange where my mum was billeted just outside Wellingborough. It's on a postcard dated 1904 and there's a link to another photo of the Grange taken from a different angle. Going to show her the photo to see if it brings back any more memories.
Christine
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Hi Christine you can do it from home. :)
On Goo***.co.uk images under Land Army Workers Northamptonshire
quite a few images come up.
Maybe your Mum is on one.
Sandy
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Firstly, following Sandy's suggestion ...
Northampton Central Library - the librarian checked the list of photographs but there was no mention of Land Army.
NRO card index shows only Land Army photographs taken at Moulton Institute of Agriculture.
Now, the farm(s) get(s) more interesting ...
Christine, the surname you are looking for is DICKENS.
Arthur George Dickens & Doris Ellen Atterbury married JunQ 1923 Wellingborough. Their children were Derek Trevor (1923-2002) and Shirley E (1929-1932). Derek Trevor married JuneQ 1945 (his wife may still be alive).
Ancestry is down at the moment, but I think we will find that AGD and (?) parents Arthur & Mary (?) came from Brixworth ... which suggests that Frank D Austin of Brook Farm was brought from Brixworth by the Dickens family as shepherd.
The electoral registers for 1939 show that Arthur George Dickens and his wife Doris Ellen were living at Brook Farm, however in the ones for 1945 show there were 4 other folk living there (not sure of ages/deaths so will PM them to you). AGD also held land in Sidegate Lane in 1939.
Before I went to NRO I checked the local map for another farm that your Mum may have walked to as you said she walked along a lane rather than a street. South Hill Farm would have been along a lane. It's in Finedon district for electoral registration, but no further to walk, so I checked that as well.
For 1939 there were a dozen occupants listed (names in PM) including 2x Dickens who may be AGD's parents. For 1945 there were 16 occupants listed, this time including AGD and his wife.
So it looks as though both farms were in the Dickens family, South Hill being the larger one, I think ... but which one is the one you are interested in. Did your Mum leave the station up the footpath, turn right across the railway and on to South Hill Farm, or did she go straight on up to Brook Farm, assuming there was a footpath parallel to the railway ?
Hope of use.
Bryan.
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Hello Bryan
You have solved the mystery for me and I can't thank you enough! I will see if the name 'Dickens' rings a bell with mum.
I think that mum was probably at South Hill Farm and not Brook Farm thanks to your research. She joined the Land Army 3 May 1943 and left 31 October 1945 and worked on the same farm whilst she was in Northamptonshire. She was first billeted at Denton, then moved to Wilbye Grange, of which I've found a photo. It's such a coincidence that the Dickens lived at both Brook Farm and South Hill Farm. I'm wondering, though, where Derek Trevor Dickens was in 1939 and 1945, although he did marry in Jun Q 1945 and wonder what date the electoral rolls were taken.
I have looked at old photos and maps of Wellingborough Station and there is a footpath on the left hand side of the track which appears to lead up to Mill Road and then up further to Finedon Road where Brook Farm was. This was the track which I initially thought my mum would have taken but it seems much more probable, especially in view of the 1945 electoral rolls that she was at South Hill Farm. This seems to have had much more land around and I have some photos of mum in the fields on the farm if you would like to see them so you know who you've been researching for :)
The reason I couldn't find a marriage for a Trevor, father George, is because you found he was actually christened Derek Trevor and his father was Arthur George. I've think I've found Arthur George Dickens on he 1901 Census living with his parents Arthur and Mary at Weston Favell and on the 1911 they're at Grange Cottages, Overstone. Not sure about the Brixworth connection as according to the census Arthur Dicken was born at Boughton and his wife Mary at Moulton.
I would never have got any further had it not been your visit to the NRO today. I had looked at South Hill Farm as being a possibility but thought it was a little too far away. Taking another look at the Ordnance Survey Map 1948, I can now see the lane across from the railway station that leads up to South Hill Farm. I had a look on Google Earth to see if the farm still stands and it appears that it does, although the track/lane where my mum would have walked up looks to have disappeared and it seems to be accessed from Irthlingborough Road.
Looking at the 1945 electoral roll, it seems my mum was correct when she said that George's parents also lived on the farm and she remembers two brothers living there who may well be the ones listed after the Dickens family.
You've given me so much to go on and my aim is to research more about the Dickens family and try to trace any descendants of Derek Trevor Dickens and his wife and maybe I'll take mum down to see the farm where she worked in the early 1940's.
Once again, thanks for all the work you've done for me, it's much appreciated.
Best Wishes
Christine
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Excellent research and outcome.
Saved me a trip also although I wasn't aware there were any librarians
left in Local Studies. :) Service has dropped considerably, besides opening hours.
The images of the Northants Agricultural College are the ones I mentioned.
It is a shame we can not assist with living members on the forum
but rightly so.
Sandy
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I have just found the marriage for you Christine.
Wellingborough St. Mary P.C.
Pg. 4, No. 7
02 April 1945
Derek Trevor Dickens, 21, bachelor, farmer, 40, Elsden road, father George, farmer to
Nora Suzanne Holloway, 22, spinster, electrical assistant, 131, Finedon Road, father Eli, electrician
Witnesses: ? Monroe? and S Burgess
No children baptisms at Church.
Sandy
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Thank you ... pleased to be of help.
The Dickens family appear not to have wished to be listed in the directories in 1930s and 40s. The basic street directories of 1964 through to 1974 show South Hill Farm being run by J C Bazzard farmer, with Derek T Dickens living in the farm cottage. There were also 2 farm bungalows occupied by workers.
Derek T Dickens was probably too young to appear on the 1945 electoral register as I assume it was recorded mid-1944.
Two children coming up in a FreeBMD birth search Dickens/Holloway in 1952 and 1962 ... may be relevant.
I think this is 'George' ... Arthur George H Dickens birth reg SepQ 1897 Brixworth reg district (and Brixworth reg district covers a multitude of parishes) ... based upon the 'H' that's given on the 1945 elec reg list for South Hill Farm. So there may be a link to the Austin family, but I agree it may not be quite as likely as I first thought.
Bryan.
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Hi Sandy
Thank you for the marriage details of Derek Trevor Dickens and Nora Suzanne Holloway in April 1945. Another piece of valuable information. Would St Mary's be the one on Knox Road in Wellingborough or is there another one?
Think I've found the births of their two children but not yet pinpointed their marriages. It's a shame that 'Trevor' is no longer with us as mum remembers him and Nora well.
Christine
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Hello Bryan
Trevor's mum, Mary Dickens appears to have died aged 69 in Dec Q 1945 reg Wellingborough which was around the time mum left the LandArmy and her husband Arthur's death appears to be registered Jun Q 1959 aged 85 also Wellingborough. I have found a photo of the farmhouse at South Hill Farm on http://www.geograph.org.uk and mum recognised it straight away. There are a few other photos also showing the surrounding area and tracks running up to the farm.
I, too, have found children born Dickens/Holloway in 1952 and 1962 but not yet pinpointed any marriages.
I agree with you that the birth of Arthur George H Dickens registered Brixworth 1897 is probably 'George' in regard to the 1945 electoral roll. Brixworth seems to cover a lot of areas including Moulton and Boughton, the birthplaces of 'George' and his father Arthur respectively.
As yet, I've not found a death for 'Trevor's wife, Nora, so she may well still be living.
So much information from both you and Sandy in such a short time. Thank you.
Christine
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Hello Christine
Yes, St Mary's in Knox Road. The gardens have gone from the churchyard, and they've now built a close on the land to the west but it's still the impressive church inside that your Mum went to.
Bryan.
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Hello Sandy
I was also impressed by St Mary's when I saw the photos on the internet, both inside and outside, and have it on my list of places to visit when I bring mum down to Wellingborough :)
Christine
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Hello I believe you looking for the descendants of George s carter I am his daughter many thanks .
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Hello Sandra, Thanks for getting in touch but the farm I was looking for turned out to be South Hill Farm which is not far away from Brook Farm. My mum used to walk from the railway station and after help from people on the forum I discovered South Hill to be where my mum used to work in the land army. I did take her to visit the farm a couple of years ago and the people who now live there remembered the people who mum new when she was there around 1943/1945. Unfortunately, they have all now passed away so she wasn't able to meet them. A shame but it was very nostalgic for her. Once again, thanks for getting in touch.