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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: kappm on Friday 08 August 14 10:01 BST (UK)
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In 1874, my great-grandfather Frederick Kapp founded a pipemaking firm in Dublin that, after his death in 1881, evolved into Kapp Brothers, and then into the renowned pipemakers Kapp & Peterson, which today trades as Peterson of Dublin.
I'm interested in locating any pictures of Frederick, Mary, or her sister Isabel Milburn, who looked after Frederick & Mary's two children in Dublin after Mary died in 1882, and in gleaning any other information about Frederick, Mary or Isabel.
In return, I'd be happy to share information I've pulled together from family records and published sources on the history of Frederick Kapp, pipemaker, Kapp Bros and Kapp & Peterson.
Marco Kapp
England
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Hi There
I presume that you have these !
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c000160012166
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8506920011938
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/269c970011939
Tara
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I'm sure that you have these articles but I shall post just in case !
http://www.apassionforpipes.com/storage/FiresignGreshamRev6.pdf
http://pipedia.org/wiki/Peterson
http://www.alpascia.com/moments/d/Peterson-i25338.html
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/24153/page/5585/data.pdf
OK SO, I have just realised that there are a LOT of articles re him and would be here a long time posting them all HA !
Tara
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findmypast.ie has a lot of the Kapp / Kapp & Peterson directory references !
Tara
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Another source-
http://collections.europarchive.org/nli/20121019111650/http://comeheretome.com/2012/10/15/kapp-and-peterson/
The National Library has some digitised photos of the K&P work place. Might be worthwhile checking their Photographic archive to see if there is any of the family.
http://catalogue.nli.ie/Search/Results?lookfor=Kapp&type=AllFields&submit=FIND
annclare
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findmypast.ie has a huge amount of newspaper articles with the family mentioned, not sure if there are any pictures though.
So sad !
Tara
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Thank you Tara (taramcdsmall) for your lightening-fast response. I have searched Irish and London newspapers, Irish census returns, Church records (including burial records) and FindMyPast / Ancestry and believe that over the years I've gathered all info there is from these sources. However, I'd not come across little Millicent's baptism certificate and was very moved to see it. Thanks for pointing me at it.
Frederick, her father died at a quite young age in 1881, his wife Mary gave birth a month later to Millicent who died soon after. Mary died 12 months to the day after her husband leaving 2 small boys who were brought up by Mary's sister Isabel.
It's an extraordinarily tragic tale and I'd guess the boys were traumatized by these successive events.
Their father's business was inherited by their mother and, in turn by her sons. It was held in trust for them until they came of age in the 1890s (hence the business being called Kapp Brothers). One of them (my grandfather) sold his share to Charles Peterson who worked for the firm - which was then renamed and went public as Kapp & Peterson, becoming the largest pipe-maker in Ireland.
The stuff put out on the web by the pipe community is confused and much is untrue. I myself am keen to provide an accurate story of my family background for my children and grandchildren. Its photos of Frederick and Mary Kapp, and Isabel Milburn, that I'm most missing
Thank you for your assistance with providing a full picture.
Marco
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Hi Marco,
I'm sure there MUST be a book to written on your family and it would be SO nice to have it from a family perspective whom would be thorough with the information and not just rehashing general points which most of the articles seem to do.
Annclare may be pointing you in the right direction as to where, if there are any pictures, that they MIGHT be.
There were a lot of photographic studios at the time in Dublin, and given the fact that the Kapps were an up and coming family in Dublin, I'm sure there must have been some personal photos taken . . . they would most likely though have been kept in the family, and given all the turmoil that there was in such a short space of time may mean that they were mislaid.
Have you tried ALL descendents or the Frederick's in laws to see where they passed on somewhere ?
Tara
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Have you seen Frederick's will ?
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014897/005014897_00201.pdf
Tara
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Dear AnnClare - Thanks for pointer to National Library of Ireland. The picture of the Kapp & Peterson workforce is dated 1890-1920 and I'd guess is more likely around 1910 than earlier. Charles Peterson, who would have been Managing Director then, is clearly recognisable sitting at the centre.
Thanks again for your help.
Marco
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Sorry, I posted something by error !
Tara
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Dear Tara - my you guys are good! I have never see the will of Frederick Kapp or of Mary Kapp and I think the excerpt you pointed me at explains that (his will being unadministered by his wife until she died, her sister Isabel becoming the trustee. Subsequently Isabel's relative Edward Waugh, a businessman from Gateshead, England, became joint trustee.
I have the Indenture whereby the business left to them by their parents was divided between them in 1893, my grandfather selling his share to Charles Peterson.
My grandfather went on to become a doctor in Gateshead. I wonder if the trauma of his parents death influenced that decision. Certainly be became very close to Edward Waugh.
Thanks again for your help.
Marco
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HA
There are always more nuggets of gold to be found when you introduce fresh eyes to the story.
We can only hypothesise what this family went through. Those young boys, to have had what must have been a privileged start to life, yet it chipped away from them year after year HAD to have had a profound effect on their formative years.
Tara
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A Kapp Burial
http://www.igp-web.com/igparchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1headstones/mt-jerome76.txt
Tara
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Another which you probably already have !
http://www.igp-web.com/igparchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1headstones/mt-jerome06.txt
Tara
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Image
Tara
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Image
Tara
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Not so privileged! Frederick Kapp was a émigré from Germany. He set up business in Soho in London as a pipemaker / tobacconist with his brother George, and they soon after jointly went bankrupt. Frederick started again on his own account, marrying Mary Milburn in 1870.
She'd been brought up in her penniless grandfather's house near Hadrian's wall and who was taken in by a relative when 14, where she seemed to have acted as a servant girl. I'm fascinated as to how a country girl from Cumberland ended up marrying a German in London just 6 or 7 years later. Her sister became an impoverished dressmaker in London.
This was at peak of London's growth in the 1870's. Sounds similar to growth of Mumbai now ie big city sucking in impoverished population from rural areas. Mary must have been delighted to have married a businessman. Frederick's brother George married in same church a week later. After George died, his wife ended up marrying Charles Peterson and - according to family papers - his will financed Charles Peterson's patent pipe design - which seemed to have been the rock on which Kapp & Peterson's success was built.
All of which was a revelation to me!
I will write all this up for my family.
Marco
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Well, to have a business on Grafton Street in Dublin, was not 'slumming it' either HA !
Nice image of their son !
Tara
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Blimey Tara!
I'd not seen the Thrift family headstone before. Their descendants are my best chance of finding photographs. I'll try and track one down.
Many thanks.
Marco
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Oh Goodie
I'm sometimes afraid to post stuff incase I am wasting people's time HA !
Another image - You are soooo lucky that there are such great images out there of the business at least !
Tara
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I'm not sure if you saw this one !
Tara
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What a SUPER article from 1877 !
Tara
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To my amazement, K&P were mentioned in Samuel Beckett's 1953 play Waiting for Godot- voted the "most significant English language play of the 20th century" in a National Theatre 1998 poll by 800 playwrights, actors, directors and journalists. That's pretty good literary recognition (or product placement). Here's the line in Act 1:
POZZO:
(on the point of tears). I've lost my Kapp and Peterson!
You can check it out at http://www.samuel-beckett.net/Waiting_for_Godot_Part1.html.
Even more amazingly, it was mentioned (as Kappa Pedersen) by James Joyce in Finnegans Wake:
"Jests, jokes, jigs and jorums for the Wake lent from the properties
of the late cemented Mr T. M. Finnegan R.I.C. Lipmasks and
hairwigs by Ouida Nooikke. Limes and Floods by Crooker and
Toll. Kopay pibe by Kappa Pedersen.
"
The firm obviously became an integral part of Irish culture.
Marco
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I did have a look when I saw the photograph.
To my shame I have never read either novel; what a great tale to be able to pass onto your family.
Be Proud !
Tara
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1939 register of electors
Sarah Garforth Thrift 22 Greenmount Rd
William H and Mabel A Thrift 27 Braemor Park
Henry and Jeannetta Thrift 67 Highfield Rd
William Edward and Maude ,Provosts House,Trinity College,Grafton St
Fred H and Jessie Kapp ,111 Moyne Rd
These addresses can be followed up on computer at Pearse St Library to approx 1964
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Tara to my shame I haven't either, and dathai thanks a million to you and Tara both.
You are brilliant.
I'll let you know if I find more.
Marco