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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: melia on Wednesday 20 August 14 15:36 BST (UK)
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Hi
My relative "Alfred John Dunham" it seems was buried originally in a German Military Cemetery(Morhange) quote "by the enemy" after being a prisoner of war. It says he died 22nd December 1918 though.
Would this have been correct as the war would have ended by then.
Melia
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Hi Melia
He may have been too ill to be repatriated.
You may find him here - http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search
I believe they have not digitised all the cards. And it is possible that he was captured very late on, and he was dead before the Red Cross heard about him.
Ken
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I have recently finished a library book on Prisoners of War in Germany during the Great War.
I had not previously given the repatriation of POWs any thought but was still surprised to read that after the 11/11 Armistice, to avoid any confusion, some prisoners (they were still serving soldiers until formally discharged) were ordered by the British authorities to remain in their prison camps until they were released by the allies. Some prisoners held in camps near the border ignored thia order and marched to meet the advancing allies.
Naturally it was the prisoners' wish to get home by Christmas 1918 but some did not arrive back in England until early January 1919.
McTalbert.
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Did not know about that order. A large number marched to neutral Holland. Basically to get something to eat, as Germany was on starvation rations.
Ken
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Thank you for your replies.
Yes he is there Ken.
Not a lot of information sadly. He wasnt married an i used to visit his brother and sister in the 60s when i as a child.
Melia
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Just realsied more to see when you put the number!!!!
It appears he was captured 25th April 1918 at Kemmel. Unwounded apparently but then all the soldiers on surrounding page are apparently unwounded!
He is one of 11 soldiers whose bodies couldn't be found at Morhange cemetery even though a plot was given
Melia
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Hi Melia,
Morhange had been French before November 21th.
Rudolf
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Now i am confused. The paperwork i printed from the cwgc website says
"place of burial Morhange German (but with a line through it) military cemetery"
Also i have just noticed it says date of death 16/10/18 on this sheet and on the sheet that details individuals who have been exhumed. but on the first sheet i have mentiond someone has crossed the date out (and 3 others as well) and above his date of death have put 22/12/18.
It also does say "this cemetery has been re-numbered by the French authorities when reconstructed.
Melia
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Guess like so many other soldiers we will never know the whole story.
Melia
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He has been at Kemmel (West Flanders) in Belgium, - unwounded.
He had been transferred to the Rhineland.
He has been POW in Friedrichsfeld near Wesel (now a part of the town Voerde):
"Im Ersten Weltkrieg wurde Friedrichsfeld erneut als Kriegsgefangenenlager für Menschen verschiedener Nationen, wie Russen, Engländer, Serben, Italiener, Portugiesen und Belgier, genutzt. Dafür wurden gesondert Lager errichtet. Von 1914 bis 1919 starben 620 der kriegsgefangenen Soldaten. 1916 errichteten die Gefangen unter Hilfe der Militärverwaltung in der Mitte des Friedhofs das Kriegerdenkmal. Einige Jahre nach Ende des Krieges wurden die meisten Toten in ihre Heimat überführt. Ebenso wurde das Lager aufgelöst " (Wikipedia:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrichsfeld_(Niederrhein) (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrichsfeld_(Niederrhein))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voerde (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voerde)
Why and when had he been in Morhange?
There had been no POW-camp in or near Morhange or Saaralbe (reburrials).
"Au cours de la guerre, beaucoup de jeunes Morhangeois tombèrent sous l’uniforme allemand, sur le Front de l’Est, mais aussi à l’Ouest, en particulier en France et dans les Flandres. Sujets loyaux du Kaiser, les Mosellans accueillent cependant avec joie la fin des hostilités et la paix, enfin retrouvée. Morhange redevient française après la signature de l’Armistice de 1918. Les casernes sont alors occupées par une importante garnison, comptant jusqu'à trois régiments et un commandant de place ayant le grade de général"
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morhange_(Moselle)#Premi.C3.A8re_Guerre_mondiale (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morhange_(Moselle)#Premi.C3.A8re_Guerre_mondiale)
"While the soviet councils disbanded themselves with the departure of the German troops between November 11 and 17, the arrival of the French Army stabilized the situation: French troops put the region under occupatio bellica and entered Strasbourg on November 21. The Nationalrat proclaimed the annexation of Alsace to France on December 5, even though this process did not gain international recognition until the signature of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#Annexation_to_the_French_Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#Annexation_to_the_French_Republic)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarralbe (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarralbe)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarralbe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarralbe)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morhange (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morhange)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemmel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemmel)
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2913076/DUNHAM,%20A%20J (http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2913076/DUNHAM,%20A%20J)
I am almost sure that the Military Recovery Units or IWGC officers had German or French paperwork on this case.
Rudolf
NB: Since two years we are waiting for the burrial of a RAF cockpit crew of four men. The MREU had inspected the crash site in 1945. The gunners found their reburrial on a British military cemetary, but the official report to the relatives had been: Missed in Action over the North Sea - until September 2012, when the cockpit was excavated.
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May be he died in a French hospital.
There had been around 250 burrials in Morhange.
The French soldiers had been exhumed and reburied.
Years later there had been 4 500 German reburrials.
In Saaralbe there had been a reburrial of the RAF 2nd Lt. Ward,
who died January 2nd, 1919 in Sarreguemines.
Morhange (photo):
http://www.volksbund.de/kriegsgraeberstaetten.html (http://www.volksbund.de/kriegsgraeberstaetten.html)
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I have been studing his page from the ICRC.
It appears he was captured unwounded on 25/4/1918 and taken to Friedrichsfeld POW.
His paperwork from the CWGC website gives him buried Morhange date of death 16/10/18 crossed out and written in 22/12/18.
Memorial after digging but no body found is at Sarralbe cemetery. He is one of the 11 soldiers who have a special memorial marked out for them
Melia