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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Connie Sparrow on Saturday 27 September 14 16:20 BST (UK)
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My great uncle was awarded four medals, all for having served, none for heroics.
I've read these medals were not inscribed in anyway. Is that correct? If so, would the citation with the service(wo)man's name, service number, etc, have been included as a letter or similar in the presentation box?
I know any medals had to be applied for. They weren't issued regardless. I also know not every service(wo)man did apply for them.
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WW1 medals were inscribed, this practise stopped for WW2 campaign medals. All gallantry awards were/are inscribed.
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WW1 medals were inscribed, this practise stopped for WW2 campaign medals. All gallantry awards were/are inscribed.
Thank you :) That means if the medals were stolen as suspected, there'd be no way of tracing them, especially as they've probably been sold a time or two by now :(
Apologies for the buttons on my posts. I don't know why they've suddenly appeared.
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Extremely unlikely to get any unnamed medals back. Do you know if he definitely received them? You can always ask the medal office if they were originally sent to him.
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Extremely unlikely to get any unnamed medals back. Do you know if he definitely received them? You can always ask the medal office if they were originally sent to him.
Even if the medals had been inscribed it would have taken a small miracle to retrieve them. Ah well, at least I tried :)
The medals were issued on 18 Dec 1950 but they weren't sent to great uncle. They went to his aunt. I've no idea why because he was still alive at that time. The medals weren't found at the aunt's home nor at his. In fact I didn't even know he'd been awarded any until about a month ago.
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They may/could have been sold by a family member ie the Aunt? I've recently started buying WW2 medals for soldiers that served in France during 1940, namely Dunkirk. There's a fair few that go on auction sites and they don't sell for much unless there is gallantry award with them then they jump from tens of pounds to thousands.
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They may/could have been sold by a family member ie the Aunt? I've recently started buying WW2 medals for soldiers that served in France during 1940, namely Dunkirk. There's a fair few that go on auction sites and they don't sell for much unless there is gallantry award with them then they jump from tens of pounds to thousands.
There are two theories why they've not been found. One is, as you suggest, the aunt sold them, possible to a door to door caller asking if she had any memorablia. I know that did happen. The other is they were stolen when my great uncle had to move out of his home which was scheduled for demolition and he was temporarily housed nearby because his maisonette wasn't ready.
I've seen examples of all four of the medals on auction sites. I know I could get them but they won't be the same. They won't be my great uncle's.
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If you decide to replace them I wouldn't buy second hand ones. Ask the MoD for a new replacement set, I'm sure they re-issue medals at a cost. If that failed I'd search the net for reputable company that makes replica medals.
Good luck
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If you decide to replace them I wouldn't buy second hand ones. Ask the MoD for a new replacement set, I'm sure they re-issue medals at a cost. If that failed I'd search the net for reputable company that makes replica medals.
Good luck
Thank you for the advice.
The MoD will replace them providing I can prove the originals were lost through no fault of the holder ie through theft or fire. They won't replace them if the holder threw them away. I don't think the loss was reported to the police or there was an insurance claim. Even if there was, it happened so long ago it's unlikely any paper work still exists :( My last hope is there was a report in a local paper. I'm trying to pinpoint an approximate date for the burglary but if the aunt sold them - end of the line :(
Thanks again for your help. It's appreciated :)
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The medals may not have held such a place in some hearts in the past as they do now. Unless you do know that there was a break in at a specific point in time, I would be tempted to believe they were sold or given away rather than stolen. Lost/mistakenly thrown out is also possible. Value not that great either. Shame isn't it? :(
Was the Aunt's address used as a point of delivery due to Uncle not having his own home at that point in time. Because the medals were delivered to that address does not mean they stayed there.
Presumably Uncle did not marry and have children as you don't mention this. Are there any other extended family who may know the whereabouts of the medals?
I understand what you say about replica medals - not quite the same thing really ... :-\
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The medals may not have held such a place in some hearts in the past as they do now. Unless you do know that there was a break in at a specific point in time, I would be tempted to believe they were sold or given away rather than stolen. Lost/mistakenly thrown out is also possible. Value not that great either. Shame isn't it? :(
Was the Aunt's address used as a point of delivery due to Uncle not having his own home at that point in time. Because the medals were delivered to that address does not mean they stayed there.
Presumably Uncle did not marry and have children as you don't mention this. Are there any other extended family who may know the whereabouts of the medals?
I understand what you say about replica medals - not quite the same thing really ... :-\
After what so many service(wo)men went through I can fully understand why they may not have been wanted. Maybe the reaction after WWI was why WWII medals had to be applied for and weren't inscribed.
There was definitely a break-in. My great uncle was a keen fisherman and all his fishing gear is known to have been taken.
It's possible his aunt nagged him about not having claimed his medals so he's told her to do so, just to stop her nagging ;) I just don't know :( I'd always been told he'd been on a shore base only, never served overseas; so it was a bit of a shock to discover he'd been awarded the Burma Star. That arena wasn't exactly a walk in the park. He was involved with the tank landing craft. Some shore base! :) Tis a real shame :(
I've no idea why the medals were sent to the aunt because my great uncle was living in his late parents home at the time. It's a bit of a puzzle what happened to them. His sister cleared the aunt's place when she died and would have said something if they'd been found there. His nephew cleared his place when he died. There was no sign of them there either.
No, my great uncle didn't marry and didn't have any children either. No one knows what happened to the medals. I know he and my father were close, so maybe he gave the medals to my father and when Dad died his widow tossed them as she did my great uncle's original service record :(
I think I've done all I can to find the medals and will just have to accept they've gone forever :'(
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YEs, any number of things could have happened to them. Sad.
[quote author=Connie Sparrow
[/ I'd always been told he'd been on a shore base only, never served overseas; so it was a bit of a shock to discover he'd been awarded the Burma Star. That arena wasn't exactly a walk in the park. He was involved with the tank landing craft. Some shore base! :) Tis a real shame :(
[/quote]
I think you might need to do some further investigation - if he was awarded the Burma star there must have been some wires crossed somewhere if you previously believed he did not serve abroad. How did you find out he received the Burma Star?
https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/medals/burma-star/
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I think you might need to do some further investigation - if he was awarded the Burma star there must have been some wires crossed somewhere if you previously believed he did not serve abroad. How did you find out he received the Burma Star?
https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/medals/burma-star/
I have a copy of my great uncle's service record. That's how I found out he'd been awarded 4 medals, including the Burma Star which proved the person who'd told me he'd only served on a shore station was very wrong.
Thanks for the link
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For the record I would stay well away from War Forces Records.
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For the record I would stay well away from War Forces Records.
I agree with you Drew.
I only posted this for reference as it was the first link I found with reasonable detail about the requirements required for servicemen to receive this medal. In hindsight I should perhaps have searched more thoroughly.
I am not recommending that Connie subscribe to the site. :)
Connie, depending on how interested (and determined) you are, you may wish to apply for your great Uncle's service record which will give you some more insight. There is a bit of form filling, a cost of £30 and a wait of up to 12 months for it to arrive.
It seems odd that you believed he did not serve abroad - I am wondering if perhaps you have two g uncles mixed up, or perhaps there were two men with the same name and there is confusion about which one is your g uncle?
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For the record I would stay well away from War Forces Records.
I am ever since I found their claim an elderly civilian cousin killed in the raid on Coventry had been awarded two military medals. She'd never served in the military at any time in her life. They'll never redeem themselves in my eyes
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Connie, depending on how interested (and determined) you are, you may wish to apply for your great Uncle's service record which will give you some more insight. There is a bit of form filling, a cost of £30 and a wait of up to 12 months for it to arrive.
It seems odd that you believed he did not serve abroad - I am wondering if perhaps you have two g uncles mixed up, or perhaps there were two men with the same name and there is confusion about which one is your g uncle?
My great uncle had a very distinctive name. He's the only one with that particular in the family which is the subject of a One Name Study.
As I've said I was told he served on a shore station. I had no reason to doubt that at the time but when his service papers arrived they clearly showed he had served abroad. Why I was told otherwise, I don't know, but it doesn't matter now.
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If you know his units and the dates he was with them would you like to know what unit war diaries are available that he served with?
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If you know his units and the dates he was with them would you like to know what unit war diaries are available that he served with?
Apologies for the late reply. I was away visiting my cousin for a while, started playing catch-up & keep-up, then had a head on collision (dog's head 1, my hand 0)
It'd be interesting to know if there are any war diaries. My cousin hasn't found any so far though. The information we have comes from the Payment & Victual Ledgers. It's not on the service record card.
A lot of his service was on shore stations which is possibly where the story he never served abroad came from. He served on the Shropshire from 7 Jan 1942 to 5 Apr 1943, was "lent to the London Blitz" 19 June to 28 June 1944. From 1 Jan to 30 Sept 1945 he was on Tank Landing Ship 347 before "ship hopping" back to England and HMS Pembroke. He'd done gunnery training as well
He was also on HMS Eaglet (19 July-6 Sept 1944) but it's not clear if that was the shore station or the ship of the same name.
I'm slightly puzzled why he spent so much time on shore stations. His service record runs from 29 Sept 1941 to 29 Jan 1946 when he was demobbed. He never rose above Able Seaman.
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The name HMS Pembroke can also refer to someone's accounting station even while they were serving on a vessel at sea. I'm no expert but I've seen such accounting stations numbered such as "HMS Pembroke 11". You'd have to pursue this further but you get the general idea. The definitive work on this is:
Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy by Ben Warlow
Imber
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The name HMS Pembroke can also refer to someone's accounting station even while they were serving on a vessel at sea. I'm no expert but I've seen such accounting stations numbered such as "HMS Pembroke 11". You'd have to pursue this further but you get the general idea. The definitive work on this is:
Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy by Ben Warlow
Thank you. That could be why the Pembroke appears so many times although there's no number after it.
The order of the ships/shore stations was Ganges (training), Pembroke, Shropshire, Pembroke, Alecto, Pembroke, (London Blitz), Pembroke, Eaglet, Pembroke, Tank Landing Ship 347, (Ship hopped via Pursuer/Lucia/Nigeria), Pembroke.
I'll have a look for the book. Thanks again :)
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There's one on Ebay right now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shore-Establishments-of-the-Royal-Navy-by-Ben-Warlow-Paperback-2000-/271630931740?pt=UK_Books_EducationalTextbooks_EducationalTextbooks_GL&hash=item3f3e77171c
That's actually quite a good price.
Imber
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There's one on Ebay right now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shore-Establishments-of-the-Royal-Navy-by-Ben-Warlow-Paperback-2000-/271630931740?pt=UK_Books_EducationalTextbooks_EducationalTextbooks_GL&hash=item3f3e77171c
That's actually quite a good price.
Thank you for the link. Yes, it is. Elsewhere I've seen an asking price of £20-£30.
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There's one on Ebay right now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shore-Establishments-of-the-Royal-Navy-by-Ben-Warlow-Paperback-2000-/271630931740?pt=UK_Books_EducationalTextbooks_EducationalTextbooks_GL&hash=item3f3e77171c
That's actually quite a good price.
Thank you for the link. Yes, it. Elsewhere I've seen an asking price of £20-£30.