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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Irene B on Saturday 11 October 14 12:27 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find a birth or baptism record for Elizabeth Margaret Hanette Clayton, born 1870, daughter of Joseph Clayton and Margaret Bennett. On her Queensland marriage certificate she gives her place of birth as Hoggthor Lancashire, on subsequent records it is just Lancashire.
Can anyone tell me where Hoggthor is - or was?
Irene
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The birth of an Elizabeth Harriet Clayton was registered in the March ¼ 1870, Salford Registration District.
Stan
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1881 census (Class: RG11; Piece: 67; Folio: 34; Page: 9) has:
Elizabeth Clayton, age 7, born in Hogsthorpe, Lincolnshire?
Living in Fulham with parents Joseph and Mary Ann.
Probably just a coincidence, but . . . . . ;D ;D :-\
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There's an old (2006) thread on Ancestry's community board about this person. It says that her father Joseph was a "Dispensor" according to her 2nd marriage certificate - is that right?
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On that 1881 census I found, father Joseph was a Medical Practitioner! ;D
The coincidences are piling up!! ;D ;D
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The birth of an Elizabeth Harriet Clayton was registered in the March ¼ 1870, Salford Registration District.
Stan
There is also the death of Elizabeth Harriet later in 1870, so maybe that negates the birth that Stan mentioned.
I'm trying to think where 'Hoggthor' might be. I though Hoghton could be mis-spelt/transcribed due to accent but perhaps rather a stretch.
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On that 1881 census I found, father Joseph was a Medical Practitioner!
and he is a Dispenser in 1901
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The birth of Elizabeth Ann Clayton was registered Mar ¼ 1874, Boston, Lincolnshire.
Stan
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Do you have her immigration record and does it say she came from Lancashire or Lincolnshire?
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. . . . or even Lanarkshire?
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Me thinks we need to see the Queensland records -at this rate we will have more Claytons than you can shake a stick at - Lincolnshire Lancashire or even over the wall in Lanarkshire.
Hoghton in lancashire is in Leyland too far from Salford Haughton Is in Denton which is the east side of Manchester opposite to the Salford birth. Lincolnshire is therefore possible as so many mis-transcriptions Lanarkshire shouldn't be ruled out :)
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Hi all, there is a passenger list for an Elizabeth M Clayton, b. abt. 1870 LINCOLNSHIRE. Travelling from London to Brisbane on 5 Dec 1890, ship Taroba.
Jool
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Marriage Elizabeth Margaret Hannette Clayton to Samuel Beautyman, 6 Aug 1896 Queensland. No details of Elizabeth's birth place as it is only the index.
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A tree on Ancestry has the people as
Elizabeth Mary Ann Clayton, b April 1872, Hogsthorpe, Lincolnshire (Told you! ;D )
Daughter of Joseph M K Clayton, b 1847 Wolverhampton
and Mary Anna Bennett, b 1847 Chelsea
As per the 1881 census I found earlier?! ;D ;D
Feeling smug!
Marriage:
March qtr 1870
Kensington district vol 1a, page 22
Clayton, Joseph
+ and on the same page +
Bennett, Mary Hannah
Marriage details:
13th March 1870, at St James Church, Fulham
Joseph Clayton, 27, Bachelor, Carver & Gilder, of 35 Cornwall Street
Mary Hannah Bennett, 29, Spinster, same address
Fathers: John Clayton, Farmer and Robert Bennett, Carver & Gilder
Witnesses: Nathan Appleton and Amelia Atkins
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Interesting article on Trove
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/131860449?searchTerm=elizabeth%20beautyman&searchLimits=
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Is there a touch of one-upmanship there kgarrad! ::)
Quite a few trees have Elizabeth and Samuel marrying in Aus. I know most people like to look around for the perfect venue, but that was quite a trip to take to find one. :)
Irene will still be looking for the baptism records, but perhaps now she'll be lucky.
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On the marriage certificate she gives her father's occupation as Dispensor Bookkeeper, so I don't think the medical practitioner fits in.
Every census I have found her on, 1901 and 1911 gives her place of birth as Lancashire, or Lancashire N.K. In 1911 her full name is given as Elizabeth Mary Ann instead of Margaret. The name Elizabeth Margaret Hanette Clayton was used on her marriage certificate and on the births of two illegitimate children born in Australia. Immigration shows her as Elizabeth M Clayton from Lincs
I was hoping someone might recognise Hoggthor. I have even tried looking up Hoggthorpe but nothing there either.
Irene
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I had seen the 1878 article on Trove, I have also seen the articles referring to the death of Samuel's first wife, another Elizabeth nee Jones.
Thanks for looking though.
Irene
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Is there a touch of one-upmanship there kgarrad! ::)
Just nice to know I was correct!!
Irene, take a look at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/Hogsthorpe/
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The immigration records of the Taroba in 1890 show her as 20 years old and it does have Lincs in the column 'County or Country'.
But on Samuel's entry it gives Sunderland as place of birth for both him and his wife, she was born in Dudley, Worcestershire and he was born in Newcastle upon Tyne, which as anyone from the northeast knows may be close by geographically but as far away as you can get in reality!
Her marriage certificate says she is 26 so I think her date of birth is 1870 rather than 1872.
Irene
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On the marriage certificate she gives her father's occupation as Dispensor Bookkeeper, so I don't think the medical practitioner fits in.
Per Joe Beautyman's letter to the Canberra Times "her father was a doctor in London".
Joseph Clayton's occupations
1871 census Hogsthorpe "Assistant Surgeon"
1881 census Fulham "Medical Practitioner"
1891 census Putney "Apothecary"
1901 census Wandsworth "Dispenser (of Medicine)"
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Probate
Joseph Clayton -81 Fawe Park Road, Wandsworth, Surrey
died 1 December 1901 at 12 Camden Terrace, Brighton
Probate London to Mary Hannah Clayton widow £605. 8s.10d
December qtr 1901
Joseph Clayton
age 57
Brighton reg district 2b 153
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Thank you all for your help.
I am now trying to find a marriage for Joseph Clayton and Margaret Bennett (the names of her parents on the Queensland marriage certificate) to see if I can confirm Joseph's occupation. It clearly says Dispensor Bookkeeper on the marriage certificate and the Joseph who moved to London seems to fit, but Elizabeth's date of birth is a bit too late, so I am still not sure.
irene
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When Florence, sister of the Elizabeth bn Hogsthorpe marries in 1893 Fulham she gives her father Joseph's occupation as Dispenser.
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Thank you, well spotted. It does seem very likely that this is the right family
Irene
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I think the marriage in Fulham on 13 March 1870 is very likely to be the right one though there are a couple of problems with it.
Joseph Clayton aged 27 married Mary Hannah Bennett 22.
Mary Hannah's father was Robert Bennett, a carver & gilder. So far so good, this family can be found in the 1851 and 1861 censuses ( Mary Hannah is listed as Mary A and Mary Anna), the age is right, and she was born in Chelsea which ties in with later censuses for Mary Clayton.
The problems arise with Joseph whose occupation is shown as "carver & gilder". Possibly a mistake by the clerk? Also his father is shown as John Clayton, a farmer whereas the only likely candidate in the 1861 census has a father Anthony who is a labourer:
No 3 Court, Worcester St, Wolverhampton
Anthony Clayton - 45 -labourer - Ireland
Eliza - wife - 40 - Wolverhampton
Joseph - son - 14 - Practicing a Surgeon - Wolverhampton
Harriet - daur- 4 months - Wolverhampton
There's a big age gap between Joseph and Harriet
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I've been looking for Joseph in 1851 hoping for some clues, I finally found him transcribed as Cholon ::)
Anthony Cholon, head, b. 1821 Ireland, bricklayer's labourer
Eliza Cholon, wife, b. 1821 Wolverhampton
Joseph Cholon, son, b. 1847 Wolverhampton
Salop Street, Wolverhampton
HO107, 2018, 566, 9
Jool
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Well done Jool. That's a good find.
We have a labourer's son studying medicine in Wolverhampton in the 1860's. Someone must surely have been helping with the cost of that.