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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: jcmac on Thursday 06 November 14 23:36 GMT (UK)
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Numerous newspapers across UK refer to a report in the East of Fife Record about the loss of vessels and life on 9.9.1859 following a "Violent storm on east coast of Scotland".
Specifically part of the herring fleet - a Pittenweem boat, skipper James Young which capsized off Caiplie Farm with the loss of all seven crew members.
The name of the boat is not mentioned. Can anyone provide its name please ?
jcmac
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Hi jcmac,
I have checked the Scotsman and Glasgow Herald of 12th Sep 1859, they have reprinted the "East of Fife" record in entirety, so the boat name is not mentioned. I had family lost on the "Queensland" from Cockenzie which was lost near Isle of May, and all their death certificates included the name of the boat. Why not try the DC of the skipper, James Young or the other crown.
Tom
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Tom,
I have that in mind if all else fails - just hoping that some local knowledge might have another source with more detail.
I don't know if any other local Fife newspapers carried more details?
Many thanks,
jcmac
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Hi jcmac,
I think it is the same report that has went around all newspapers, good report but never mentioned name of boat, which is quite important.
Maybe check local newspapers for details of a fund for the widows and orphans etc, this was carried out a lot in fishing communities, usually run by local minister, etc.
Tom
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Hello jcmac,
Two addresses which might be able to help with your query.
The Scottish Fisheries Museum, Harbour Head, Anstruther, Fife, KY10 3AB.
www.scotfishmuseum.org/contact-us
Crail Museum & Heritage Centre, 62-64 Marketgate South, Crail, Fife, KY10 3TL.
http://www.crailmuseum.org.uk/
Regards, Dod.
Added: This Scottish Fisheries Museum site might also interest you.
http://www.scotfishmuseum.org/events/view/33/
Pittenweem, Anstruther & Crail are all fishing ports in the East Neuk of Fife.
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Hello Tom and ecksdochter,
Thanks for your comments - I tried some further newspaper queries to link possible items such as you suggested but nothing obvious up to end of December 1859.
I contacted SFM, Anstruther (I had visited it @1985 on a family holiday at Cellerdyke near to where the boat was lost !!!) and I have been asked to submit a query for their experts to reply to.
Many thanks,
jcmac
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hi jcmac,
I looked at the death certificates of the skipper, James Young aged 32, Wm Hughes aged 72 and James Hughes aged 18, which all happen to be on same page, the deaths were not registered until February 1860.
All 3 have cause of death as, "Drowned by the upsetting of a boat in a gale." and also have burial status as, "Body not found previous to this date." Importantly the boat name is not mentioned here either.
Tom
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Tom,
Thank you for looking at these records for me - I suppose it's sod's law that the name of the boat isn't noted !!
It looks as if their bodies weren't found as distinct from having just been found.
Were these 3 deaths registered under Pittenweem or Anstruther or somewhere else?
I might carry newspaper search on to February 1860 whilst I wait for a reply from the SFM.
jcmac
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Hi jcmac,
They were registered 28th February 1860 at Pittenweem.
Tom
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Tom,
I had a search for possible fund raising and also extended original search to end of February '60 but found no further details.
Thank you for confirming where 3 of the deaths were recorded.
Dod,
I had an initial reply from SFM on Monday and was advised that a potential boat has been identified from a local book. However, it requires further consideration and SFM wanted to know what details my original source held. I replied on Monday and await their reply.
Many thanks for your interest and advice thus far.
jcmac
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Could it be this one at all (area etc., seems to fit):
9th September 1859, NANCY, 4 mths old, lugger, 16 tons, 6 crew, carrying fish and one passenger, stranded, total loss, 7 lives lost, wind WSW10, between Cellardyke and [the] Isle of May [May Island].
see:
http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/197364/details/nancy+firth+of+forth/
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Hi scotsmum,
That could be the very one, Nancy named after one of the wives or daughters no doubt.
Tom
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Hello scotmum,
The date and name is the same as what SFM had advised me of - I await their further inquiries.
The extra information in your message appears to confirm details in the newspaper reports.
It looks good for solving the "mystery".
Will advise when SFM get back to me.
jcmac
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As somebody has already mentioned, the page of the deaths-register with James Young's details also mentions his fellow-crewmen William Hughes and James Hughes (I've normalised the spelling of the surname). Does anyone know who the other victims were?
William Hughes was old, at 72, to still be going to the fishing, unless he was the passenger. His death-certificate shows that his mother was Nannie or Nancie Muir, and that may be a clue to the name of the boat. Maybe he was the owner. Scotlandspeople shows that William "Heugh" was born in 1789 in Pittenweem to James Heugh and Agnes Muir. In Scotland the baptismal name Agnes often becomes Nancy in everyday usage.
"Nancy" was an ill-fated name for a boat in east Fife as two Cellardyke boats with that name were lost with all hands in 1805 and 1846.
William Hughes's death was registered by his son William Hughes, and I think this is the same William Hughes, "father", who registers the death of 18-year-old James Hughes. You can take it for granted that any Pittenweem boat will have one or more crewmen called Hughes (Heugh, Heughs, Heughes, the name is a nightmare to look up on Scotlandspeople!).
The skipper James Young was in Kilrenny parish, no doubt meaning Cellardyke, when he married Ann Walker Anderson in 1851. His death-certificate gives his father's name as - Haggart and his mother as Jean Young, so he was illegitimate. His death was registered by his father-in-law Fergus Anderson, who was a brother of my 3 x great-grandmother Betty Anderson, wife of Lock Horsburgh, whaler in Pittenweem.
Harry
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Hello Harry,
The Daily Scotsman of 12.9.1859 lists the deceased as :-
James Young, skipper, 32 married.
William Hughes, 72 married.
James Hughes, 18 unmarried.
William Hughes Jr, 8 G/son of Wm.Hughes above.
John Lamont, 42 married, Tyree.
Edward Davidson, 32 married, millworker Dundee.
John Band, 30 married, labourer Stravithie.
Regards,
jcmac
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Hello Harry,
The Daily Scotsman of 12.9.1859 lists the deceased as :-
James Young, skipper, 32 married.
William Hughes, 72 married.
James Hughes, 18 unmarried.
William Hughes Jr, 8 G/son of Wm.Hughes above.
John Lamont, 42 married, Tyree.
Edward Davidson, 32 married, millworker Dundee.
John Band, 30 married, labourer Stravithie.
Regards,
jcmac
Thanks. The last three men mentioned would have been "half-dealsmen", men who worked on the boat for a wage as distinct from the full-time fishermen who would have had shares in the boat.
Harry
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Today I received a reply from Linda Fitzpatrick at the Scottish Fisheries Museum, Anstruther who has consulted her colleagues and their opinion is that the name of the boat lost on 9.9.1859 was NANCY.
The evidence pointed to that being so and I am happy to agree.
Many thanks to all who contributed and for additional information provided.
jcmac
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Today I received a reply from Linda Fitzpatrick at the Scottish Fisheries Museum, Anstruther who has consulted her colleagues and their opinion is that the name of the boat lost on 9.9.1859 was NANCY.
The evidence pointed to that being so and I am happy to agree.
Many thanks to all who contributed and for additional information provided.
jcmac
In your first post you mentioned that the boat was lost off Caiplie, which is between Cellardyke and Crail. By coincidence, the loss of a previous "Nancy" in 1846 was commemorated in verse by a ploughboy at Caiplie farm, as we learn from George Gourlay's "Fisher Life; or, The Memorials of Cellardyke and the Fife Coast". The poem is quoted in its entirety by Gourlay, and begins:
"You fishermen of Cellardyke, that on the sea do sail,
Come listen with attention unto this mournful tale,
It's of a splendid new boat - the "Nancy - lost at sea,
With seven of a crew, my boys, the truth I'll tell to you …"
Sixteen children lost their father in that disaster.
I had two ancestors who were farm labourers at Caiplie.
Harry
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I have so enjoyed seeing and reading how this initial enquiry has developed. Scotsmum, inspired find indeed ;)
Harry, that poem of the time is fitting. How did you link to that?!
I thought this would be so hard to find details on, given how hard these boating queries can be...yet, here you all are. Amazing :)
Monica
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I have so enjoyed seeing and reading how this initial enquiry has developed. Scotsmum, inspired find indeed ;)
Harry, that poem of the time is fitting. How did you link to that?!
I thought this would be so hard to find details on, given how hard these boating queries can be...yet, here you all are. Amazing :)
Monica
I have a copy of George Gourlay's book and I used it when writing my own book about Cellardyke which was published in 1986. Gourlay mentions another disaster near Caiplie where a Leslie Brown from Cellardyke was drowned, like his father and grandfather in separate accidents before him, and a descendant of that same family was drowned off Cellardyke just a few years ago, having retired back to his home village and bought himself a little boat.
In the first "Nancy" disaster I know of, in 1805, the victims included the brothers Thomas and Alexander Scott, relatives of my 3 x great-grandmother Isabella Scott.
It's nice to see a query on Rootschat about the East Neuk of Fife, although I do have ancestors from further west too!
Harry