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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: Rosegold89 on Wednesday 14 January 15 22:20 GMT (UK)
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Hello, I'm looking for evidence of a marriage between Honour (or Honor) Prideaux (b. circa 1649 In Cornwall (supposedly) to Edmund Prideaux b. 1606 at Soldon Manor, Devon and Bridgett Moyle) And Esdras Giddy (b. circa 1640).
I can't find sources for either of their births/baptisms but over 100 family trees on ancestry.co.uk list her as daughter of Edmund and Bridgett and many list cite her marriage To Esdras Giddy with other trees on the website as their source.
There is however evidence of a marriage between an Honour Prideaux and James Berdow in London 1699 which some people have listed as her second marriage.
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an Esdras Giddy who died in 1697 left a will. You can get copy of it from the Cornwall Record Office, it's ref AP/G/1106 Will of Esdras Giddy, clothier, of Liskeard 1697. The burial record refers to him as Esdras Giddy, senior. There are 3 baptisms to Esdras Giddy & his wife Honour in Liskeard between 1669 & 1674 the first being another Esdras.
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/community-and-living/records-archives-and-cornish-studies/enquiry-and-copy-services/
The Honour Prideaux marrying in 1699 could be a different person as if it was a second marriage, she would be likely to marry as Honour Giddy.
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Thanks for your help! This Esdras Giddy did have a son of the same name but his father was also supposed to be Esdras Giddy (1602-1646). Perhaps senior just refers to the fact he had a living son? Another thing is that Honour is said to have died before him so would there be any reference to her name in the will?
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you'd mentioned a second marriage so I hadn't checked for a burial. She was buried 27 Dec 1692, noted in register as wife of Esdras. So definitely no second marriage. The senior does imply that he had a son called Esdras. but given that one Esdras married in 1635, he probably died before 1697. There are gaps in the Liskeard register.
You won't know what the will contains unless you get a copy. It has an inventory which could provide interesting info on his belongings.
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I too would really like to know the answer to your question, since Esdras is one of my ancestors. I have asked several people with such a link in there tree, but no one has been able to provide any concrete evidence.
"The Yeoman Pioneer: The Story of George and Sally Giddy and Their Family" by Joyce GIDDY published New Zealand circa 1985 (of which I have a copy) shows Esdras GIDDY m. Honour ?. But no surname for Honour is given. I suspect it was based on the Liskeard records already mentioned.
There is also "Prideaux: A West Country Clan" by R.M. Prideaux which might possibly offer some clue, but I have not seen a copy and it looks very expensive to buy.
Cheers,
Sean.
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I'm in the same boat here with Esdras and Honour/Honor.
I tried the Prideaux line but came to the conclusion that it wasn't that likely as this Honour seems to be related to the Prideauxs of Prideaux Palace in Padstow!
I've tried quite a few sources from the Cornwall OPC to Family Search and various other websites over the years but to no avail (yet, I won't be beaten!).
The only thing I haven't tried is sitting down for a day at the records office and trawling through every recod around the possible time of their marriage between 1655 and 1665.
I'll drop you a line if I ever find an answer.
David
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Something that I have since found out is that Honour's brother was educated at Liskeard Grammar School so the family must have at least been linked with the town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey_Prideaux
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Good find. The letters mentioned in the Wikipedia article can be accessed here:
http://archive.org/stream/lettersofhumphre00camduoft/lettersofhumphre00camduoft_djvu.txt (http://archive.org/stream/lettersofhumphre00camduoft/lettersofhumphre00camduoft_djvu.txt)
but I can see no further clue in them.
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the will of Bridgett Prideaux of Padstow is available online. She made her will 1 April 1690 & it was proved 3 Feb 1699. She left property to her son Humphrey, grandson Edmond eldest son of her son John, grandson Thomas eldest son of her son Humphrey, her daughter Admonition married name Pollex???, her daughter Anne married name Coffin, her daughter Bridgett married name Bickford, her grandsons Roger & John sons of John, her granddaughters Bridgett & Honor daughters of Anne. The executors were her son Edmond and daughter Honor whose surname in 1690 was Prideaux. By the time of the probate in 1699 Honor's surname is Bardow, so the marriage to James would look to be correct but not a second marriage, her first one.
Admonition was baptised in St Germans 25 Aug 1639, daughter of Edmond & Bridget-extracted record attached
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWFX-851
Edmond Prideaux married Bridget Moyle 24 May 1638 in St Germans
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2JL-JZV
Other baptisms to the family may not have survived because of the disruption caused by the Civil War.
The will of Honor's brother Edmund was proved 11 Oct 1706, he was a merchant in London
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from the LMA marriages online
Mr James Berdo, ironmonger of St Dunstans parish in the East married Mrs Honour Prideaux of the same parish 13 August 1699 in St Martin Ludgate.
The Mrs doesn't mean she was a married woman, it's a term of respect for someone of wealth or standing. Until the 1750s the start of the year was 25 March so 13 August 1699 was before 3 Feb 1699 which could be written (nowadays) as 3 Feb 1699/1700.
There is another marriage 28 Jan 1700 at St Dunstan in the East of James Berdoe widower & Elizabeth Bancroft single woman both of this parish so looks like Honour died soon after the marriage.
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burial of Honour Berdoe 17 Sept 1700 at St Dunstan in the East.
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Thanks for all of the information. So does this mean she was definitely a spinster before this marriage? 50 seems quite late for the first marriage, especially a woman of the gentry and didn't women always marry in their own parish?
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she was unmarried when her mother made her will in 1690 and the marriage in 1699 is in her maiden name. The probate for the will refers to her Bardow als Prideaux so it is the correct marriage for Honour. The will was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury which could indicate that the property was in more than one diocese.
There's no age given on the burial so no way of knowing how old she was. from that. Admonition would appear to be the oldest child baptised in 1639.
It may have been customary for a couple to marry in the bride's home parish, but it wasn't always the case and well off women were more mobile. Admonition married in Camborne.
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Strange how someone mistook Esdras's wife for her, I wonder where they got the idea from? It's slightly frustrating too that now so many people have this misinformation in trees all over the internet.
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it could be down to those infamous Ancestry tips that flag up similarities. But it shows the pitfalls of copying other trees instead of using original documents like registers and wills. Just because it's on a website doesn't mean it's correct or is anything more than guesswork. There are many posts on these boards about copied trees that have people marrying after their deaths & other such impossible feats.
This is just one of many such posts
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714702.0
:D
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Just come across this thread, to which there is little to add. Honor Prideaux does seem to have been pretty mature in August 1699 when she married James Berdoe (the usual spelling nowadays) and we can surmise that they attempted a child together, which carried her off in September 1700. His extremely prompt second marriage in January 1701 was to the 17 year old Elizabeth Bearcroft, not Bancroft, and they had ten children together. As Honor's heir, James was then involved in a lawsuit with her brother Edmund over property at Padstow.
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Good afternoon,
I am a historian currently working on the correspondence of Humphrey Prideaux (1648-1724). I believe I have found a couple of entries which refer to his sister, Honour. These are my draft transcriptions.
Cornwall Record Office. PB/8/1, Letter book of Humphrey Prideaux
[letter from Maria Bury, to, Humphrey Prideaux, 16 September [n. y.] [c. 1700]
(...) I had Sooner answeard yr last kind Letter, but yt I was much out of order for some time & am not yet very well: besides I had no great plesure to tell yu yt yr sister was married: by this time I doubt not but yu have heard it from other hands if not her own, I hear shee is gon wth her iron Husband into tems street wher shee is very Busy in seting her house in order, but I have never Seen her Since shee chang’d her name, neither doe I know whether I shall be wellcome to her or no: by this time I hope my Cosen in Crosby square is so well as to be able to receive a visit wch I intend to try next week. (...)
[letter from Maria Bury, to, Humphrey Prideaux, 28 September [n. y.] [c. 1700]
'‘Twas no little surprize to me Dear Dr yt yu shou’d tell me ye newes of yr Sisters Death, & the Brut her Husband never let me know of her sickness nor give me any notice of her funerall.
Certainly my Cosen brought him to great a fortune to be huddled into her Grave so unworthyly, wthout giveing those relations wch were in this town ye liberty to wait upon her Corps, tis Signe he lov’d her mony better than he lov’d her.
As I was passing by ye dore last weeke I call’d to know when my Cosen Died, & wher shee was buried But nothing of mourning appeard ther; not so much as a hatchment hung over ye dore, wch plainely showes how Little Respect was pay’d to my poor Cosen, who I beleive paid Dearly for her folly in throwing away her fortune upon a fellow yt so little deserv’d it
But shee is gone, & tis in vain
For us to murmur or Complain
We’ve all liv’d long enough to try
Life is a toyle: tis rest to Die.
I hope my Dear Cosen is at rest, & yt she hath made a good exchange, God grant we may alwayes be thinking of yt time when we shall ly down in dust, for it cannot be long before ye world & we must part: in ye mean time good Dr continue yr kindness to, yr sincerely affect kinswoman & most Faithfull Servant, M B
All yr Friends here Salute yu & yrs most affectionately'
I hope these extracts are of interest
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https://www.gofundme.com/danielreedhistory - every £ helps to fund my original research
https://oxfordbrookes.academia.edu/DanielHReed
https://conversingcriminally.wordpress.com/
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Welcome to Rootschat!
Oh dear! Sounds like her family didn't approve & perhaps justifiably.
::)
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Thank you so much for transcribing and sharing those letters, which bring the people to life!
While Maria Bury certainly does not hide her feelings, other interpretations could be put on the facts she reports. How old James Berdoe was compared to Honor Prideaux is unknown, but one might surmise that it must have been a relatively late first marriage for him as well. And does it sound, though we cannot know, as if she may have been a bit impetuous?
Anyhow, she made her will* on 9 September 1700, only eight days before her burial, which suggests that she knew she was in danger, and it was proved by her brother Edmund on 28 September 1700. All she had to dispose of was 600 pounds, worth at least 80,000 pounds in 2015, that had been reserved to her by a prenuptial contract, since English law at the time automatically gave everything else to her husband. This money of hers she distributed among her own family, friends and servants, leaving nothing (so far as I can ascertain) to James or any of his relations.
James Berdoe's family from his second marriage had its ups and downs. Of the ten children, only three seem to have reached maturity and married. The eldest son James set himself up as a country gentleman in Kent while his younger brother John carried on the family business and expanded it, becoming a major supplier to the Royal Navy and owning two iron works. Sophia married a clergyman who became head of King Edward's School, Birmingham.
* PROB 11: Will Registers 1697-1704: Piece 457: Noel: Quire Numbers 124-162 (1700)
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Thank goodness I’m not the only one looking for the wife of Esdras Giddy born circa 1640 in Liskeard. His wife, and mother to his children, is Honour, no maiden name, no marriage found. I have had so many run ins with people on Ancestry and Family Search who insist on listing her as Honour Prideaux, without any proof. Like all of you, I have searched for many years and agree that it’s highly unlikely our Honour was a Prideaux. I have looked at their offspring in the hope one of them had a middle name that might have been a clue. So let’s hope one day we might be able to confirm who Honour was. Thank you Cousins
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Esdras Giddy and Honour are my 7th great grandparents. I haven't been able to find a maiden name for Honour nor a marriage record. I am descended from their son Esdras Giddy bap 1669, died 1726 Liskeard and Constance Dionythorne /Dennythorne - their marriage in 1698 has spelling as Dunythorne. She died 1750 Liskeard. Unfortunately I don't know who Constance's parents were. :(
Margaret
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They are my 7th great grandparents too. According to Cornwall Family History Society a lot of records were destroyed in Liskeard from around that time, so we may never find out Honour’s maiden name. The parents of Constance are John Dennythorne b 1643, and Blanch Dout b 1645 both in Cornwall.
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Today I have spoken to the Cornwall Family History Society who tell me that many of the early parish books were either destroyed or damaged. They also advised that it is highly unlikely that Esdras married Honour Prideaux as the Prideaux family were a titled family from Prideaux Place. I doubt we will ever know who our Honour was but I hope people will stop listing her as Honour Prideaux.
Vanessa
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Thank you Vanessa for posting the names of Constance's parents - this is great! 8)
It's such a pity that many of the early parish books were either destroyed or damaged, however I agree that it is highly unlikely that our Honour was a Prideaux.
Which branch of the family are you descended from?
Your cousin Margaret :D
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Hi Margaret. I’m descended from Esdras & Constance Dennythorne, then through their son Thomas Giddy & Elizabeth Garland, then through their son Thomas and Ann Harris, then through their daughter Elizabeth Giddy who married Thomas Abbott Jeffery. Then right through to my Mum, who was a Jeffery. Who are you descended from?
Best wishes
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa,
My line is Esdras and Constance, their son John and Phillipa Truscott, their son William and Frances Cole, their son John (baptism and marriage records has surname as Gedye - burial/headsone as Giddy) and Ann Thomas, their son William (baptism surname Gedye, marriage and death Giddey) and Jane Caddy (immigrated to Australia with their children) their son Thomas Giddey and Janet Carmichael, their son Alexander William Giddey and Annie Archibald Wilson. My mum's maiden name was Giddey. This branch of my family was/is so challenging to research with all the variations in the spelling of their surname.
All the best,
Margaret :D
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Hi Margaret, that’s amazing, and yes it’s difficult when the surname keeps changing. I don’t know what our relationship is - cousins numerous times removed lol.
Best wishes
Vanessa
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Yes it is amazing!
600 years after Esdras Giddy and Honour were born you and I, their direct descendants have met and are discussing them on RootsChat from opposite sides of the globe!
All the best,
Margaret :D
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Wow that’s an amazing thought!
Best wishes
Vanessa x
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Today I have spoken to the Cornwall Family History Society who tell me that many of the early parish books were either destroyed or damaged. They also advised that it is highly unlikely that Esdras married Honour Prideaux as the Prideaux family were a titled family from Prideaux Place. I doubt we will ever know who our Honour was but I hope people will stop listing her as Honour Prideaux.
Vanessa
It might help somewhat to add some notes on places like Ancestry and Geni so that anyone else who has one of them in their tree might see it
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I have a copy of Prideaux a west country clan by R M Prideaux which is quite complex on the family in Cornwall if I can look anything up for you
there are so many lines of the family as Prideaux's lived at Prideaux Manor near Luxulyan as well
Please drop me a line
Karl