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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Phenmark on Monday 16 March 15 12:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am researching the Baker family from Carbonear, and later Harry's Harbor, Notre Dame Bay, Newfoundland.
My gr-gr-gr grandfather, Job Baker, was bap.1835. I have a copy of his baptism from Harbor Grace parish records. His father is entered as John, his mother, Sarah (unknown) from Carbonear. Job ended up settling in Harry's Harbor, NDB, after marrying Rachel Dorey in Black Island.
I have for many years tried to ascertain John and Sarah's parentage, or marriage record, to no avail. Any leads appreciated.
Thanks!
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Hi Phenmark,
Have you seen this: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=467465.0?
JDC
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Hi JDC,
I have seen that post. I replied with pretty much the same post as this. As of now, I am still awaiting a reply.
Thanks for letting me know!
Steve
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Hi phenmark,
Have you checked out the provincial archive for info? here is their site addy: http://www.therooms.ca/archives/family_history_collections.asp. Newfoundland was separate from Canada until 1949, after WW2, before then they did their own records I believe, including BMD. Here is another link to check out: https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/genealog.php.
Hope that helps,
JDC
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Thanks JDC!
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I imagine you have seen that a John BAKER was born Nov 22 1816 Carbonear bap Apr 23 1817
n to Samuel Baker & Jane PELLEY ...They were Married 1815 Carb METH. There was also a sister Mary, born 1819.
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I imagine you have seen that a John BAKER was born Nov 22 1816 Carbonear bap Apr 23 1817
n to Samuel Baker & Jane PELLEY ...They were Married 1815 Carb METH. There was also a sister Mary, born 1819.
Thanks JJ!
Yes, for years I had thought Sam and Jane to be John's parents. I then got a post on the NFLD site from a researcher who found this at the Archives:
"John of Samuel & Jane Baker b Oct. 13 1836, bap June 4 1837. This would suggest that the John born to them 1816 died and this son was named in his memory. In which case, the Job who did go to Harrys Harbour cannot be the grandson of Samuel & Jane."
So that was kind of deflating. I still am uncertain what to think.
Thanks. Please let me know any thoughts you may have.
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It does seem rather odd, then, that the 17 or 18 years in between didn't have records of any children baptized, or whom have died in between. Not saying that is not the case...but a shame if that's the only available records for this couple. Or did they also fill in the blanks as well.It was a shame that person volunteering time didn't add that post to the resouce page for NFLD as to put it on the boards only made it visible at the time of posting, then is visible only with properly keyworded searches.
If that researcher could not find more for you in the Methodist baptisms, I'm afraid we only have what is available online, which is sparse information.
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So they moved to Black Island...
Sam Baker a witness at the marriage of Job, would he not be a brother or father?
Samuel & Jane Baker were witnesses at the Black Island marriage of Elizabeth BAKER to George NOSEWORTHY Aug 19 1844
Sam Baker Sr. & Job Baker were witnesses at the Morton's harbour marriage of Ann Maria BAKER (Black Island) & Richard MEW, Black Island on Oct 9 1856
adding:
Some pages say the marriage of Samuel was 1815 some say 1805??
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Passenger/immigrants.shtml
adding: ach, nevermind, I see Job's son was Samuel... Let me guess, he was the first son...I think you'll just have to go digging there in the archives yourself to prove your ancestry.
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Hi JJ,
I'm afraid I omitted some info that should have been included in my last post. There in fact, were other children of Sam and Jane. Here is the entire post from the person who visited the archives:
"I did find more children born to Samuel & Jane Baker within the Carbonear Anglican Parish records."
Samuel & James, twin sons of Samuel & Jane Baker of Carbonear born Jan 28 1825, bap Jan 15 1826.
Joseph of Samuel & Jane Baker born Sep 7 1828, bap Sep 28 1828
Ann of Samuel & "Elizabeth" Baker, born Aug 1 1830, bap Feb 27 or 29 1832 (writing hard to read for baptismal date)
John of Samuel & Jane Baker b Oct 13 1836, bap June 4 1837. This would suggest that the John born to them 1816 died and this son was named in his memory. In which case, the Job who did go to Harrys Harbour cannot be the grandson of Samuel & Jane."
Job did move to Black Island, where he wed Rachel Dorey. I have also wondered about the Sam Baker as witness at Job's wedding (and other's at Black Island). I used to think the Sam at the wedding was Job's grandfather. But it is possible that it may have been the twin Samuel, b. 1825 to Sam and Jane.
I think the 1805 date is the year of Sam Baker's immigration from Dorset, England.
Please let me know what you think, and again, many thanks!
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My thoughts are that there are stronger hints FOR Samuel to be related than not...With so many Samuels found with Job...Just as you need to have more than one item of proof to say someone is yours... I'd say you need to have more than one document (, ie: the death of the John born 1815) to prove that these AREN"T your family.
More witnessed marriages.... Samuel Baker & John Baker, both of Carbonear also witnesses Mary BAKER & William Potter June 12 1838
The marriage of Anne is witnessed by Job & "Sam Baker Senior"
Samuel & his children end up in Black Island, as do many Perrys...and they witness a great deal of events for each other.
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Thanks JJ,
You've inspired me to pick up the trail again, and see where it takes me!
It always seemed a little strange-the gap between Mary's birth in 1819, and the twins in 1825. Although, not unlikely, just a little odd. It's almost as if Sam remarried.
Anyway, Thanks again,
Steve
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It also appears James Snow, whom one sees witness many events, is married to a Pelly/Pelley
Not that that means he is necessarily related... http://nl.canadagenweb.org/ndfogo_vs87angmarriages.htm
I'd get someone to look up some deaths and see if anything comes up for parentage...
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I can't help but wonder who the John baker is in the 1838 marriage of Mary, if not the one born 1815.?
There are few gravestones left to be read in Black Island, Twillingate....looking again at the witnesses mentioned John & Sarah as well as Samuel & Jane appear to be in Black Island,* unless they travelled that distance just for the weddings. Those being wed state they are of Black Island
I think I saw a Pelley in an earlier census of Black Island, sparsely populated ( now not populated at all according to one site I found it an abandoned area), perhaps they were lured there by family?
adding...or was a Sarah mentioned as Witness.... I do see a John & Mary giving birth in Black Island so wonder if he remarried & moved there? Hard to know if this is he without a marriage, though...
*adding... Sorry I was wrong, looking back at the 1838 wedding all of them were still of Carbonear...
In case he is ever proven to be yours, there is even an interesting baptism in 1780 Warham Dorset ...were any children named Daniel? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPH3-6BS
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Hi JJ,
This is what is so invaluable about this site; having somebody else look at what you've got and give a fresh perspective. I agree with you completely. The John at Mary's wedding could only be the one b. 1815. I think I'll post a lookup request for Deaths at Black Island, Twillingate for any Bakers. Also, very interesting about the bap. in Dorset, although I do not have a Daniel as one of Sam's sons.
I still wonder if the mother of the children born in the "20's & 30's is a different Jane. Seems like two separate and distinct families. In fact, the Anne born in 1830 has "Elizabeth" as mother. I'll keep digging.
Can't thank you enough!
Steve
Add: I just looked at Job's children's names. 2 Of the girls have middle name "Jane" His 3rd son is Samuel. (First is "James").
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I don't THINK anything appears to stick to conventional naming patterns? Do you have actual proof of the parents of Job? It would be so awesome to look at some actual images, wouldn't it? There are only some Catholic indexes online.
There could be many Samuel Baker of Wareham Dorset, unfortunately... That was just one I found online who could fit the bill...& Ships from Dorset to NFLD. were frequent...
Jane could have been Elizabeth Jane & either he or she liked Jane better...We see flips of middle names & forenames all the time...a nasty habit on documents... ;D Would be nice to have some of her earlier information.
Also she may have had some misses, it happens, so a space is quite natural...a woman I knew lost eight...went on to have only one, brave soul...although the opposite is more the norm.
Do you have a marriage for Sam Jr. ??
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Oh, I forgot, there are now some pages of registers one can browse through!
https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https://familysearch.org/recapi/sord/collection/1793777/waypoints
I suppose all of this is online, but easier all here in one place to actually look at them in order...
Carbonear (Methodist) Marriages 1794-1891 & those of Twillingate, etc would be good ones to peruse! I only see births & marriages, no deaths...
adding: awe, some are too new, & parents aren't listed on the ones I peeked into :P So little information is given...
adding: Here's the one 1844 with Sam'l & Jane as wittness...They signed X ( Their mark) as did most on page & throughout the register...
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-10505-74270-41?cc=1793777&wc=M6PJ-ZZS:144938101,144947501,144963701
You can find a Sarah & others marrying on Exploits, Burnt Island Twillingate, but without wittnesses one might recognize, hard to know which might be yours...Still you will probably find a few names you know in there...Joseph was on Samson's Island
It would be interesting to hear if you can find any info on the John of Black Island who married a Mary-Ann...
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adding: Here's the one 1844 with Sam'l & Jane as wittness...They signed X ( Their mark) as did most on page & throughout the register...
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-10505-74270-41?cc=1793777&wc=M6PJ-ZZS:144938101,144947501,144963701
Hey JJ,
Sorry to be so late replying. Somehow your last post got by me. I'm not sure what you mean about the 1844 register link. It brought me to the familysearch register of marriages, transcribed in the 1940's. I have been browsing these for a few years on familysearch. My question is, where is the "X" Sam'l and Jane signed with. The familysearch registers are copies of the church registers (or so I thought). No witness signatures are there. Let me know.
Thanks!
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There are no witness signatures, the couple used an "x" ....as it is written that they left their mark.
( altho Jane's should have said "her X mark" it says his ) Sorry my mouse must not have copied that one and so it left an older paste from earlier...I had to look about, but here it is under Twillingate, Moncton's Harbour C of E Parish
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-10507-8343-72?cc=1793777&wc=M6PJ-HM3:144940201,144949201,144952701
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Thank you, J.J.
I'm planning on sifting through the records on familysearch, and those I have, checking for possible naming patterns. Actually seeing the real parish records would be priceless!
Thanks again,
Steve
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It appears they'll send you paper copies from the reels
http://www.therooms.ca/archives/ci_C.asp http://www.therooms.ca/archives/ci_B.asp http://www.therooms.ca/archives/fee_schedule.asp
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Hmmmm...you'd have to ask if those reels are the registers which are already in the above links, or some records with more detail...
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Oh, I see. They might be the ones we can look at now. I'm going to check with the researcher who looked up the births of Sam and Jane's other children (including that 2nd "John" and see if those records can be requested. She said she went to the "Archives." I don't know if that means the Rooms or some other place.
Thanks again, JJ
Steve