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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: treslade on Sunday 19 April 15 18:00 BST (UK)
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Joseph Wills Robbins, born 28 Jane 1829, Poole, Dorset, England.
Married 1855, in Poole, Dorset to Jane Sloper Stickland. She is listed in Poole in the 1861 census as a widow with a 5 year old daughter.
Merchant Navy
Masters and Mates Certificates issued in Poole, No 66.256, (after serving 9 years in the coastal and foreign trade)....
Drowned 11 Oct 1857, listed in 'Deaths at Sea, 1781-1968', listed as Joseph Robbins. States he was on the 'John Thompson'
( John Thompson, master was listed as Brown, registered in Poole 1852, No. 5.117, 208 tons, Sail).
The entry has tiny writing which I can't completely read, I can see Drowned Atlantic Ocean, then some words I can't decipher, but may say Quebec.
I have searched for a death certificate, under Joseph Wills Robbins/Joseph Robbins, then different spellings without success. Then I searched Canada and did not see anything, then thought maybe it doesn't say Quebec.....
I started to search for newspapers for Poole 1857, didn't find anything, tried to research the ship 'John Thompson' to see if it had sunk, or had been renamed - or how big it was, as 208 tons means nothing to me, did not find it.
Were bodies buried at nearest landfall if retrieved? I was under the assumption that even if the body was lost a death certificate was issued, when returned to post.
Does anyone know where I can find more information? I live too far away from Dorset so it would have to be done on line.....
Thank you
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Unfortunately there was no requirement to keep a record of deaths at sea until some time in the 19th century although the ships log usually recorded such events (if it survived).
From the National Archives
There was no obligation to keep records of births, marriages or deaths at sea before the mid-19th century.
Any record made of a birth or death at sea from 1837 onwards was sent directly to the General Register Office and recorded in the Marine Register.
As your man died in the early period of record keeping he may have been one of those caught in the grey area between the old system and the enforced recording. In my own research I have found the records to be unreliable until the 1870's
Have you tried the National Maritime Museum ?
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers
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As far as I know, a death at sea was supposed to be registered at the first port of call afterwards but civil registration of deaths for Quebec (if that is the correct place) didn't start until the 1900s.
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Thank you Falkyrn,
It is disappointing to think I may not find anything else about his death as he is my direct line, and I have already lost another in my direct line the same way.....hopefully someone may find a clue in that tiny writing.......
Thank you once again for your time, Treslade
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Thank you for the information about record keeping in Quebec, aghadowey - it dosen't look as though I am going to find more than I have already, I have tried to magnify the word Quebec, so I can see it clearly but it is not quite big enough - trelade.
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Looks as though Quebec is correct. Morning Post 27 Oct 1857 has under Vessels Spoken With: "John Thompson, of and from Poole, for Quebec, Sept. 30, lat. 47 lon. 53".
Drosybont
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The entry has tiny writing which I can't completely read, I can see Drowned Atlantic Ocean, then some words I can't decipher, but may say Quebec.
Drowned Atlantic Ocean
Sailed from Quebec 11/10/57. Not since heard of.
(Note that this is not strictly an index of Deaths at Sea, despite the title given it by FindMyPast. It's the Register of Wages and Effects of Deceased Seamen, National Archives BT 153).
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Well done Bookbox and Drosybont, thank you both so much - you have both helped me with the wording and understanding the list that Joseph is on which is the Register of Wages and Effects of Deceased Seamen (which is maybe why I can't find another person) - it is not the list I though I was searching.
If the wording is 'not heard of since', does that just mean Joseph? Or did the ship disappear? Although if the 'John Thompson' was mentioned on the 27th Oct 1857 in the Morning Post does that mean it arrived back in Poole?
Thank you again, Treslade
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That report in the Morning Post means that on 30 Sept 1857 when the ship was "spoken to", it was on its way to Quebec. "Spoken to" means that another ship communicated with it.
Drosybont
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Found this, Morning Chronicle 26 Feb 1858: "POOLE, FEB 24. - The John Thompson, of this port, which sailed from Quebec on the 18th of November, has not since been heard of."
Drosybont
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I sympathise. My 4xgt, who was a mariner, does not have a death certificate either. In his case I did find a burial at a port that seems to match him- name and approximate date of birth, near his home port- but no corresponding death cert. Unfortunately for me, the death was Oct/Nov 1851, just a squeak before the Deaths at Sea register. His last entry in the Merchant Navy was the first half of 1851. I wish to goodness I knew what happened, but I suppose I never will.
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Thank you for explaining the 'spoken' bit, do you think the ship was lost? I tried to find it but can't seem to track the ship on any website except one called Clip, which had the registration number, master and the 208 tons, and that it was a sail ship.......
I am really grateful for what you have done for me, you have all known more than I, and I am learning, all the time, treslade.
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Hi Ayashi, yes we just missed out on the deaths at sea, didn't we? He was my 4x grandfather, and 27 years old when he died, leaving his wife and small daughter behind. just about the same time you lost yours, and you are right, we shall never really know what happened to them,until I started doing this I hadn't realized how many merchant seamen I had in the family, not counting the ones in the Royal Navy.
And it only, if you have to search for something, that you truly understand how good the records need to be, and kept safe for all who follow after us......
treslade
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Drosybont,
You are a star!
Brilliant, thank you so much, I will try and find the article myself.....
treslade