RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: hatofthecat on Saturday 16 May 15 17:00 BST (UK)
-
I have this 1804 baptism entry from Simonburn. What I can't quite make out is the place they are from. Is I think Wark-something but what ??? Most likely a farmstead as the father George Dodd was a husbandman, he moved about quite a bit in the district over the years (Fenwick Shield, Anick Grange, Sweethope, Kirkheaton, Hallington, Ingoe..)
There are quite a few place names starting with Wark around the village of Wark (3 miles N of Simonburn) but none seem to fit, any ideas appreciated.
-
Looks like Eals to me :-\
-
Yes, does look like Eals but there is a down & upstroke after Wark ....could it be an 'R'? The 'E' of Elizabeth isn't quite the same. Is there a capital R on the page in the same hand?
-
I'd go for Eals too
This page on the web suggests its used elsewhere in Simonburn Registers
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~juliet22/jsevans.reg.simon.html
Boo
-
Northumberland Farm Index has an entry for 'Eels' in Simonburn.
-
Thanks all, I think Wark Eals is right 8)
There is a reference to it being "the estate of Wark Eals in the parish of Simunburn" in this book http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Thomas_Bates_and_the_Kirklevington_Shorthorns_a_Contribution_to_the_1000757816/201
Just need to pin it down on a map now :-\
Pete
-
From Thomas Bates, stock breeder :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bates_%28stockbreeder%29
"became tenant of his father's small estate of Wark Eals, on North Tyne."
Regards
Malky
-
There are quite a few references to Wark Eals here https://archive.org/stream/thomasbatesandk00bategoog/thomasbatesandk00bategoog_djvu.txt which might help you home in on the location.
-
Try some of the maps here too
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=13&lat=55.0870&lon=-2.2226&layers=39&point=0,0
ADDED: On JenB's link I found this:
There was on the Wark Eals estate an open pasture of 200 acres which had formed part of Broadpool Common.
-
Thanks Josey
that puts it somewhere in a radius from Gofton Fieldhead... is looking like wild & woolly so far :-[ ...will keep on scratching the map.
-
As it's on the Northumberland Farm Index it must be on an old map somewhere (I think the Index is based on the OS map from the 1860's)
-
This has a Broadpool Common aerial pic
http://ncap.org.uk/frame/8-1-10-1-38-79
sadly no grid reference....
The map for the above image places it SW of Wark, NW of Simonburn & a bit further west than the distance between Wark & Simonburn.
ADDED: Whoops - I see that's what you've said hatofthecat!! :-[
that puts it somewhere in a radius from Gofton Fieldhead...
-
Have found some marvellous place names on the map
BagmyLodge Wood
Barebreeches Wood
Threepit Hill....
-
I scoured the 1860s maps and found nothing labelled as Wark Eals in the search zone. I think the name must have gone out of use by time of detailed maps in 1860s. However I'm now pretty sure where Wark Eals was :)
In the text of the link posted by JenB there's this passage:
"he became, on coming of age, the tenant of his father's small estate of Wark Eals on North Tyne. This property had been sold in 1663 (when wheat was allowed to be exported, if not above 48s. a quarter, at a duty of Ss. 4d. a quarter) for ;^22 3 : 5s. to a yeoman who kept it in his own hands for forty years. It was then sold for ;f 1000. In about 1772 it was again offered for sale; John Bates, then an old man, went to view it with his son George, and pluck-ing a stalk of clover wound it thrice round his hat. This evidence of the fertility of the soil so fixed itself in George's memory, that after it had been more than fourteen years in the market he bought it for ;£" 4000 in 1787, without having ever again been to inspect it Mr. Thomas Ridley, the owner of the adjoining allotment of Park End, had offered only ;^2 500, and said he would not have made any advance on this at the time of the commencement of Bates's tenancy in 1796.^ The property consisted partly of a considerable tract of haugh-land, which had once been a series of eals^ or islets, and was liable to be flooded, and partly of allotments on high-lying commons."
So location must be next to Park End which is extreme eastern end of Broadpool Common and also lie by the river and stretch westwards from there to the higher ground. Having given up on the 1860s maps I dug out Armstrong's map of Northumberland 1769 (sheet 6)... and after a few moments looking found a place named Eals lying immediately to North of Park End (on 1769 map) by the river which fits the description in text above. On this map (sheet 5) is also shown the Eals that survives on modern maps just south of Bellingham. It would make perfect sense then for this Eals to have be known as Wark Eals to distinguish it from "Bellingham" Eals lying a few miles to its North. Modern maps, & the 1860s ones, name the location of Wark Eals as Low Parkend, based on alignment with L(in/ynd)hurst and Thro(ugh)gate(s) to its West. This suggests the estate was perhaps acquired by the owners of Park End by mid 1800s and it was absorbed into their estate... just to confuse things the 1769 shown location of Park End when looked at on a modern 25k OS maps is now called Little/Low Parkside and Park End is to the North ???... older maps can be a little creative in relative locations of places ::)
Pete
-
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/007342FS.htm
Eels is shown on this map - right where you said it would be :D
And on these as Eals
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/007117FS.htm
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/007483FS.htm
I'd completely forgotten what an excellent resource Northumberland Communities is.
-
Excellent JenB. That map is closer to the time, 1804, that my 4x great grandfather was there too 8)
Pete
-
I see you've now modified your posting to include a map ;D
-
On the 1861 census the sequence of enumeration is:
Slaterfield
Parkend
Low Parkend
Eels
High Parkend
Glenridley.
In 1871 it's
Linkearst
Through Gates
Eels Cottage
High Park End
Eels
Glen Ridley
Eels
Low Park End
-
1881 census shows an Eels Cottage and an Eels House and also 'High Park End (formerly Eels House)
RG 11 / 5108 / 7 / 6
-
Yup, had trouble getting the maps to upload JenB... but now taking a close look at that Greenwood's 1828 and its location for (Wark) Eals placed between L(yn/i)hurst & L(o/a)tterford and and a modern OS 50k map and its all musical chairs !! As it becomes clear that (Wark) Eals is now called Park End and the place in 1828 that was called Park End down by Parkside is now Low Parkend ::) Wahay !! ...mystery solved !!! ...how many maps does it take to change a lightbulb ? ;D
-
If I'd remembered about Northumberland Communities when we first started looking we'd have solved it 24 hours ago ::)
-
"High Park End (formerly Eels House)" more that fits 8)
Its all about "the journey" eh ! Thanks for the steer towards the 1828 map JenB, it was the vital piece of the jigsaw. I must try and get a full copy of that map from somewhere.
Pete
-
That was useful to know, as I think I have some folks at either Park End or Low Park End. Thanks.
-
Looks like the name swap occurred between 1828 and 1862 maps Craclyn, I'll leave the mystery of the exact time of the change to others ;) ...probably just need to track a sale between the two dates. I've had a couple of these farm/estate name swaps where the "old" one has become lower/minor.
-
What an excellent and fascinating piece of co-operative research!!
-
Definitely the first time I've had to cite a book on cattle breeding :P as a source reference on my tree josey !
I used that Northumberland Communities site to get the Fryer map section for Fenwick Shield that was the next stop for my 4x great grandfather but one after that, Sweethope (about a mile north of Thockrington), my luck has run out as not near any of the towns/villages on there. Can't seem to find a full copy of the map online and book traders seem to want about £300 for a copy of the original mapbook :o
-
Can't see it here?
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.0906&lon=-2.2317&layers=6&b=1
-
Can't see it here?
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.0906&lon=-2.2317&layers=6&b=1
The location was firmly pinpointed in replies 13 and 14 :) (three years ago!)
It wasn't named on the map you linked to, but was the riverside area around Parkend
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102346425#zoom=4&lat=5083&lon=12423&layers=BT
Added: Wark Eels is specifically mentioned in the reference to 'Eale' ('low, flat, marshy ground by the side of a river') in the Dialect Dictionary
https://archive.org/details/englishdialectdi02wrig/page/224
-
How strange. I hadn't noticed the date! I found this thread displayed as an "unread post" hence my contribution???
-
I used that Northumberland Communities site to get the Fryer map section for Fenwick Shield that was the next stop for my 4x great grandfather but one after that, Sweethope (about a mile north of Thockrington), my luck has run out as not near any of the towns/villages on there. Can't seem to find a full copy of the map online and book traders seem to want about £300 for a copy of the original mapbook :o
I can't see Fryers Map online, but in case you are interested and haven't already found it, here is link to Armstrong's Map 1789 map https://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A79575?display=grid
-
Yes. This one was solved 3 years ago and help was much appreciated 8) I'd still love to have a full copy of John Fryer & Sons' Map of the County of Northumberland (1820) though as still not got one ::)
-
Hi All I chanced upon this site when looking for the birthplace of my 3x great grandfather, Richard Charleton, baptised 7 May 1760, at St Mungo's Church, Simonburn, Northumberland, to parents Thomas and Mary {nee x?} Charleton. Their place of Abode was "Warks Wood", hence searching this site.
Does anyone know where this "Warks Wood" is located? The assumption is that is is probably located somewhere between Wark and Simonburn, but I would love to know.
Regards
Stephen Schollum, Cambridge New Zealand.
-
Stephen - think I have "Warks Wood" for you ;D It was just hiding under spelling as "Warkswood" and was & is a farm about 1km northwest of Wark. You can see it on modern Ordnance Survey map here
https://streetmap.co.uk/map?x=384834&y=578051&z=120&sv=384834,578051&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map&searchp=ids&dn=859&ax=384834&ay=578051&lm=0
I managed to find it by a roundabout process as on this page
https://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/Wark-on-Tyne_C15.htm
you'll see right down in bottom left of the page a "Tithe Award" from 1840, open it up and about half way down first column you'll see the name "Charlton William John" (and few Charlton before so are they all yours ?) and he is owner of two properties, the second of these is "Warks Wood South Farm" and the first is "Hesley Hirst" which I found quite quickly on this 1860s map
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102346425
then on the basis then that probably his land holdings were close to each other I looked to south of Hesley Hirst and bingo there was "Warkswood".... to find these two farms on this map look along the top margin to where it says "BELLINGHAM" then just to left of that near top edge of the sheet you'll see "Hesley Hirst" just on left edge of the woods, then look down below that and between the "A" & "R" of "WARK" you'll see "Warkswood" farmstead.
Found some modern photos of Warkswood farmstead here
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/814387
Its just too small to show up on any older maps than these unfortunately.
-
That’s a great find.
. to find these two farms on this map look along the top margin to where it says "BELLINGHAM" then just to left of that near top edge of the sheet you'll see "Hesley Hirst" just on left edge of the woods, then look down below that and between the "A" & "R" of "WARK" you'll see "Warkswood" farmstead.
To home in on the actual location centre the map on Warkswood then tap on ‘link to this view’ at the bottom of the page. This produces this url which takes you right to the spot.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102346425#zoom=6.2&lat=8557&lon=8452&layers=BT
Here is Warkswood in the Northumberland Name Books, which were compiled c.1860 in preparation for the production of the 1st edition 6” Ordnance Survey maps.
http://namebooks.org.uk/browse/main/?OSref=425&Page=45.0&terms=Warkswood&case=i&words=y
-
Hi "Hat of the Cat" and "JenB" for your prompt and most informative information and references. . I have been searching my Charleton forebears from Elsdon (farms at East Toddles, West Toddles, Wiskershiel, Witless, North Riding and Landshot) for over 35 years, but only recently found the reference to Wark Woods. I recall even searching it as Warkwoods, but only found one reference to a plant at Warkwoods Estate, Newcastle Great Park. Obviously I was not searching the applicable Maps, but, living down under, I am unfamiliar with the range of historical maps to search. Therefore, all your links are much appreciated.
While we spell the name 'Charleton' with the 'e', I certainly see references to the spelling 'Charlton.' I am unsure when and why the spelling changed. One anecdotal story told two me was that the 'e' was included to indicate that the family was 'C of E'. Who knows? The list of other Charlton family names provides more opportunities to explore, especially for the grandfather of Richard Charleton, [my 3x Great Grandfather] ,baptised & May 1769, son of Thomas Charleton. This information kindly provided by both of you has provided much valuable additions to my on-going research.
Thanks, Stephen Schollum, Cambridge, NZ
-
You might like to bookmark the useful Northumberland Farm Index
https://northumberlandarchives.com/docs/Northumberland%20Farm%20Index%201860.pdf which lists farms names in existence in about 1860 together with the name of the township and parish in which they were situated.
The name books which I mentioned in my previous posting are also a great source of contemporary information.
-
JenB Many thanks again
Too many Charltons in Simonburn and Wark Cemeteries to make any direct connections to Warkswood Farm yet! Regards, Stephen