RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Dannemois on Wednesday 10 June 15 20:28 BST (UK)

Title: Completed: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Wednesday 10 June 15 20:28 BST (UK)
Can some one please help find Tir Jack through the censuses;  I have at home the Glamorgan Family History Society’s CDs 1841, 1851 and 1861, yet for some reason I can not find the farm ‘Tir Jack’ 

I’ve located the farm on the 1841 tithe schedule; Hengoed Hamlet, John Lewis tenant at Tir Jack owned by Lancaiach Estate.  Also.....

The Will of William Lewis late of Tir Jack in the Parish of Gelligaer in the County of Glamorgan, farmer, who died 23 April 1873 at Tir Jack was proved at Llandaff by Mary Rees (wife of Thomas Rees, farmer) of Tir Jack the daughter one of the Executors.

I would appreciate any help
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Rowley on Thursday 11 June 15 11:15 BST (UK)
Hi Roy, If you google Tir Jack Farm you will find it half way along Hengoed road between Penpedairheol and Cefn Hengoed , best wishes Rowley
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Thursday 11 June 15 14:56 BST (UK)
Hi Rowley
Thanks for the details; its possible I could have worded my request a little better.  I am trying to learn more about William Lewis and Thomas Rees and family named in the '1873 Will'.  It mentions Mary Rees wife of Thomas Rees who was the daughter of William Lewis. 

I have located Thomas Rees on the 1871 at Tir Jack (RG10/5389); he is described as Head, Widower, 54 (?) farm labourer, born Gelligaer.  Also enumerated are two daughters, Ann, unm, 21, laundress, and Rachel, 17 both born Gelligaer

If this is the right Thomas Rees then he must have married Mary (Lewis) later.
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 11 June 15 15:14 BST (UK)
Hi Roy how old was William Lewis was he eg 82 in 1871, as I can see one with Rees and Lewis at New House. Gelligaer? RG10/5389/60/21
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Thursday 11 June 15 16:26 BST (UK)
Hi Keyboard
The grave at Gelligaer Chapel records William Lewis aged 84 when he died on 23 April 1873 so if its the right W.L. then yes he would have been 82 in 1871.
 
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 11 June 15 17:20 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy. that William in 1871 was b Monmouthshire married to a Mary b Llanfabon? In 1851 with daughter Mary 22  and siblings in 1851/61 at what looks like Gwerthoner Isha Hengoed in 1861?
Census refs HO107/2457/285/7 RG09/4046/55/17
That is if it is the correct William of course !
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 11 June 15 17:58 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy in 1841 the 1851/61 William is at Tir Y Shag, Gelligaer
Census ref HO107/1414/ 10/18 / 1
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Thursday 11 June 15 19:29 BST (UK)
Thanks Keyboard;
I revisited my CDs and with your details found William & Mary at Gwerthonor (1851) and again at Gwerthonor Isha (1861).  I don't have a disc for 1871 so if its not too much trouble could you please send full details; that is if there is more info.
You have been a great help
Best Regards
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 11 June 15 19:43 BST (UK)
The Thomas Rees in 1871 with children Ann & Rachel can be tracked back to at least 1841/1851 where he was married to a.Margaret, Mary Lewis aged 22 if the one in 1851 either was married and then married Thomas Rees as a widow, or the 1851/61 census for William Lewis is incorrect or possibly Mary was still single c 1873!
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Thursday 11 June 15 20:30 BST (UK)
 ??? head scratching time; that's the trouble with farmers, they either stayed put for centuries or were constantly on the move.   
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 11 June 15 21:53 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy, in 1871 William Lewis 82 at New House Gelligaer was with a widowed Daughter Mary Morgans 41 b Gelligaer with an Elizabeth Morgans aged 12 b Bedwelty and a Sarah Lewis 8 who looks to have been baptised the same day April 7th 1868 as a William Father William Mother Margaret abode Pengaur?

In 1881
Thomas Rees 55 Occ Farmer of 50 acres
Mary 52
William 8
Plus 2 Servants
Residing at Tynewydd, Gelligaer
Census ref RG11/5308/128/14

1891 census

Thomas Rees 76?
Mary 62
William Lewis Rees 18
Residing at Tynewydd, Gelligaer
Census ref RG12/4432/131/14
Baptism January 31st 1883 Gelligaer abode Ty Newydd William Lewis Rees Father Thomas occ Farmer Mother Mary

In 1901 William Lewis Rees 29 married to a Blanche Leah 26 is running the Tynewydd Farm, they have a Rees Rees 72 as a visitor
Census ref RG13/5022/123/35
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Friday 12 June 15 12:58 BST (UK)
Hi Keyboard
 This may be the Tyneweydd farm at Pontlottyn (Brithdir Hamlet, Gelligaer parish).  I can't be sure if this is the family I'm seeking.  I keep going back to the 1873 Will of William Lewis (see start of topic) the way it is worded suggests that Mary Rees (wife of Thomas Rees farmer of Tir Jack) was the daughter of said William Lewis.   
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 12 June 15 14:10 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy, ok Mary marries a Morgan /s he then dies and Mary married Thomas Rees?
Thomas and William and even Mary could possibly have been at Tir Jack c 1873 but moved to the new farm, it is the marriage to a Morgan or to Thomas Rees that would yes/no the above couple!
One marriage or the other she still would be daughter of William Lewis if her?
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Friday 12 June 15 19:28 BST (UK)
Yep, I agree with every word.

Keyboard, you have worked tirelessly on this topic and I can't thank you enough; your time & effort has been really appreciated.

Regards R
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 12 June 15 21:00 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy. not giving up quite yet, as need to find Mary Lewis b c 1830 Gelligaer in 1861, this looks more than likely her and Elizabeth in 1861:-

John Morgan 51 occ Coal & Mine Contractor b Bedwelty
Mary 31 b Gelligaer
Elizabeth 1 b Ebbw Vale
Census ref RG09/4005/16/26

Baptism?
Elizabeth Morgans 25th January 1863 Gelligaer aged 3 years Mother Mary (Widow) abode Cefulrithdir?? Cefyn Y Brithdir?
Keyboard


Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 12 June 15 21:12 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy,  John Morgan 28 occ Contractor Father William Morgan (Dead)
Mary Lewis 23 abode Garthenor? Father William Lewis occ Farmer
6th January 1859 Bedwelty
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 13 June 15 14:37 BST (UK)
Hi again Roy, last piece of the jigsaw :-

Marriage 15th June 1872 Trevethin

Thomas Rees 53 Widower occ Farmer abode Trevethin Father Watkin Rees occ Freeholder
Mary Morgan 44 Widow abode Gelligaer Father William Lewis occ Freeholder
Keyboard
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Saturday 13 June 15 15:14 BST (UK)
Hi Keyboard
Well done you; brilliant result. I hope you don't mind me asking (trying to educate myself) but where did you find the marriage details? 

With regards to the 1861 census; where exactly were John Morgan, Mary and Elizabeth residing.  I can see Elizabeth was born in Ebbw Vale so I presume they are in the area some where.

"John Morgan 28 occ Contractor Father William Morgan (Dead)Mary Lewis 23 abode Garthenor? Father William Lewis occ Farmer 6th January 1859 Bedwelty"
Bedwellty covered a big area (was the church named?)

Best Regards, Roy
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Rowley on Saturday 13 June 15 15:49 BST (UK)
Hi Roy, In the 1871 Census at New House
William Lewis Widower 82 yrs born Bedwellty Mon
Mary Morgans Daur  41 yrs Born Gelligaer Glam
Elizabeth Morgans 12 yrs Born Bedwellty Mon
Sarah Lewis 8yrs Grandaughter Born Gelligaer
New House is the next entry to Rhosybedw which is at the top of Hengoed Road Penpedairheol about half a mile from Tir Jack Farm
Mary Lewis's marriage to John Morgan was at St Sannan's Parish Church Bedwellty.
I think that Garthonor on the marriage Cert was probably Gwerthonor. Mary was not in a position to question it as she made her mark on the Cert.
Best wishes Rowley
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Rowley on Saturday 13 June 15 15:57 BST (UK)
Hi Roy on the 1871 William Lewis is a Farmer. Rowley
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Saturday 13 June 15 16:25 BST (UK)
Hello Rowley
Many thanks for the 1871 details.  Are the marriage registers for St Sannah on line?  I would like to be able to find such info myself if you don't mind sharing your knowledge.

I have to say Keyboard and yourself have been brilliant finding details on this topic and I can't thank you both enough. 

Best Regards
Roy
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 13 June 15 17:04 BST (UK)
Hi Roy in 1861 John/Mary/Elizabeth were at Hill House, Bedwelty next door was Hill Side House next to Parsonage
also a Pond Coitage, really need a local to find the location in Bedwelty!

William Lewis Rees died June qtr 1904 Bedwelty 11a 323 aged 31, Blanche Leah Rees remarried a John Henry Coombs Dec qtr 1906 Pontypool 11a 303 and her death was Blanche L Coombs March qtr 1946 Bedwelty 11a 66 aged 71

PS a few credits on say FindMyPast should provide results?
Title: Re: Please help find Tir Jack-Gelligaer
Post by: Dannemois on Monday 15 June 15 11:49 BST (UK)
Hi Keyboard
As suggested I had a look on FMY, unfortunately the page where the enumerator described his route was missing so I wasn’t able to walk in his footsteps.  I’ve learnt via Google however the likes of Pond Row, Armoury Row, School Row, Forge Row, and Church Row etc no longer exist – now replaced by Holland Street, Alexander Street, Church Street and Church Crescent.  For your interest
See MultiMap: http://tinyurl.com/76cov

Roy