RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Westmeath => Topic started by: samlouise01 on Tuesday 16 June 15 18:01 BST (UK)
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Hey,
I am just wondering if any of you have the above family listed in your family trees? I am having a right time getting records for a Matthew/Mathew Charles b.Circa 1839 in Mullingar. I was hoping to find a record of the family and whether the name ever changed? (anglicised or not?) if anyone could help i would be grateful!
Thanks,
Sam
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If you go to familysearch and click Ireland on map, then look for the Surname in Irish records, see what shows.. no date or location to start with!!
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Hey,
I am just wondering if any of you have the above family listed in your family trees? I am having a right time getting records for a Matthew/Mathew Charles b.Circa 1839 in Mullingar. I was hoping to find a record of the family and whether the name ever changed? (anglicised or not?) if anyone could help i would be grateful!
Thanks,
Sam
www.nationalarchives.ie - Griffith Valuation Records shows a Matthew Charles in Townland of Culleen Beg, Mullingar in 1854. Same site in 1901 Census shows Matthew a widower, In 1911 he seems to have remarried (married 10years)
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Hi hallmark, Thanks, i have tried that but unfortunately nothing is showing.
Ballydw- yes that would be the same Charles' all Matthew's right the way down to my uncle! is there a way to find out what he was farming?, I know Mullingar natives are called Heffer's as it is cattle country. and i believe he is a Tennant farmer and didn't own the land is that correct? As my Grandfather told me that one of His grandfathers had money, but lost it all due to being a drunk lol and local court proceedings show him being drunk and disorderly on many occasion, also is an entry that he was robbed at his farm by an unknown armed gang! i am really interested in this side as i am wondering if he came from a line of farmers, and if so, how did they survive the famine. They are listed as Catholics (as we still are) and so i doubt they would have received much help,
I am just wondering how far his name goes back as "Charles" and whether this was a regular Anglicisation of a last name. I have read it is Cathal, but that is more a first name i believe.
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RC registers are due for release 8th July, free, on line!
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haha i know. i am just so bloody impatient! :'( :'( :D :D
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I am just wondering how far his name goes back as "Charles" and whether this was a regular Anglicisation of a last name. I have read it is Cathal, but that is more a first name i believe.
Looking at the church records on Irish Genealogy there are 6 COI records for Charles starting 1672 in Dublin and 223 RC Charles in the 1700s
According to this it comes from the German name Karl.
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm?fuseaction=Go.&UserID=
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Possibly the same family relating to Matthew Charles from Cullion who is reported below as being beaten in 1834:
http://www.dippam.ac.uk/eppi/documents/10849/page/242103
In the report immediately above that for Matthew Charles, you will see a reference to the townland of Cullion Beg (Culleen Beg), I can also see several other online references suggesting that "Cullion" was a placename in the same vicinity as the townland.
Also this about St. Brigid's Well at Cullion:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23885771@N03/4346798196
No sign however in the tithe applotment records for the area of 1833, maybe he didn't have a holding over 1 acre at that point (you can see some read across of names to Griffith's Valuation - the strange name at no. 5 is presumably what Griffiths lists as "Eurell"):
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625703/004625703_00350.pdf
BTW, I can only see one person with the surname "Charles" in County Westmeath in the tithe applotment records, however it is clearly written "Charles".
RootsIreland has a number of baptisms in County Westmeath from mid 1820s to early 1840s where the father is called Mat(t)hew Charles, including a son of that name in 1835 and 1839.
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Hi Sinan, Thanks for that, yes I can see that also. I know that it was common practice to change names and religion due to the conditions they were enduring!
Hi Gaffy, yes this is them. They didn't come from Mullingar town itself but Cullionbeg near to st Brigids well. but that is only about a 15-20 minute walk out the town. (5 minutes in a car)
So there would have been another older Matthew who was the father of our 1839 Matthew... the list gets longer!
i think i am going to have to make another trip back home to do some research!
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Hi Sam,
Exactly what records is it that you are looking for ?
It sounds like you have quite a few already.
Are you trying to get further back than Matthew ?
Tara
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Hi TaraMcDSmall
yes i have a fair few records, its just that this is the shortest side of the family (only to the 18th century) , I have managed to trace my English side to the 15th century and on my Irish side other branches reach back to the early 17th. I am looking for older records of Matthew, Although i have just found a record of his father (Matthew too, listed as having married an Elizabeth/Margaret/Mary Sharkey. Its funny as this is a name that is most prevalent in the north too (as is Charles) so maybe they came from the north. originally.
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Oh You're Hilarious
A lot of folks would give their eye teeth to be as far back as you are with your Irish branch ;D ;D
Given the rarity of the surname in the locale then it's quite possible that they moved ~ that's when it gets super tricky though !
Some landlords got their tenants to move to other counties where they also had land ~ so you need to keep an eye out in the 32 counties and even over the pond to Britain.
Matthew b 1839 ~ what were his parent's names ?
Who did you say Matthew b 1839 was married to ?
Tara
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i'm like a dog with a bone once i get going haha
His parents would have been a Matthew Charles (sometimes listed as Mathew) and either Mary/Margaret/Elizabeth Sharkey as there are birth records for several children all with Matthew as the father but the Mother's name seems to vary. As you said its not a common name for the area (at the time my family breed like rabbits so there are thousands now!) so i am guessing it is the same couple each time.
Matthew 1839 (sounds like a verse out the bible) was married twice i believe first to a Mary Keenan bn. 1839 also and then a Kate Shaw (Catherine) bn 1861.
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also the land was under the barony of Moyashel, which was owned by the Tuitte family i will have a look to see what lands they owned. thanks for the suggestion! :)
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There is an 1840 prison record for a Mary Charles b 1794.
Mullingar, Westmeath !
Tara
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Did you see the 1869 stabbing ?
Tara
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Tara... ooooh! really which site did you get that info off what was she arrested for? I am in between sites at the moment, just cancelled one literally 2 days ago as i had exhausted their records .. I don't know which one would be best to pay for rootsireland is popping up as having the most resources but i am not sure!
Stabbing!!! haha no i don't think so!
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i know of the armed gang attacking the house, but not heard of the stabbing! what a right old lot they are. Already got IRA in there might as well throw in a couple of stabbings and prison sentences hahaha
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not to mention his death cert states "Penis Cancer" not prostate or something :D :D poor bloke
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This is the 1869 stabbing of Matthew Charles.
Yikes, in genealogy you take these things with a pinch of salt ~ must have been traumatic at the time though !
Tara
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This is the Mary Charles 1840 record ~ crime was 'disorderly'
Tara
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that would make sense as her husband was a drunk too. Also i see the stabbing is listed as happening in Springfield, where the family home is still to this day, I remember my grandfather telling me that this fella would have been the one to make the move from the farm to Springfield in Mullingar town. the Farrell who stabbed him was from Cullionbeg. Maybe it was over money owed.
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Hope you like them despite their 'dark nature' ;D :o ;D
Tara
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i always thought i was a bit twisted. I put that down to the English side but now i am not so sure :D :D
ah its all interesting stuff!
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that would make sense as her husband was a drunk too. Also i see the stabbing is listed as happening in Springfield, where the family home is still to this day, I remember my grandfather telling me that this fella would have been the one to make the move from the farm to Springfield in Mullingar town. the Farrell who stabbed him was from Cullionbeg. Maybe it was over money owed.
My husbands ggf lived in Springfield Cottages, Mullingar until he died in 1951!
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that would make sense as her husband was a drunk too. Also i see the stabbing is listed as happening in Springfield, where the family home is still to this day, I remember my grandfather telling me that this fella would have been the one to make the move from the farm to Springfield in Mullingar town. the Farrell who stabbed him was from Cullionbeg. Maybe it was over money owed.
My husbands ggf lived in Springfield Cottages, Mullingar until he died in 1951!
Hi Lisa, Really well the family probably know him.... what was his name??
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Hi Sam
Would be wonderful if they did!
He was Michael Meagher/Maher, with wife Mary, and quite a few children. The children had all been drifting to and from England, and when Michael died it became a permanent move with their mother.
Regards
Lisa
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i will have an ask around the family to see if they remember. My Grandad is the oldest so he should remember!
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right, the word has been put out... hopefully get you something in the next couple of days!
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Thanks so much, it's extremely kind of you :)
The children that I know of (there are probably a few more who died young) were
Mary Ann (Molly) b 1909
Rose (known as Paddy for some reason!) b 1911
Teresa b 1916
Michael (Mick) b 1918
Catherine/Kathleen or any other variant (Kit), no definite birthdate
Bridget (Biddy) b 1923
Christopher (Christy)
Annie (Nancy) b 1930
And they lived at 20 Springfield Cottages in Mullingar.
Feel free to pm me, I've hijacked your thread a bit!
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aaah he must know them our family house is 19! :D ;D :P