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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: heatherwalsh on Wednesday 12 August 15 06:52 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone, I am trying to find the parents of WILFRED WILLIAM JOHN CHATWIN, says he was born 1893 kindred Tasmania on marriage cert. He married Linda May Amos on 25 march 1915 in Derby Tasmania. All help greatly appreciated.
kind regards from heather
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Hi, just a random idea. I wonder if he was the son of Alfred:
1838 Alfred Chatwin born, Scarborough, England
1852 Alfred moved to Tasmania
1857 Alfred married Elizabeth Ann Pearmayne
1893 Alfred would've been 55
1928 Alfred died
Here's a big family write up: http://www.tfhsdev.com/TCC/people/chatwin.html
They list his surviving children, but not those that didn't live - and/or maybe they got the report a bit wrong and missed one off.
It has to be him, or one of his sons....
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Hi Heather,
There is this:
https://talis.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/
BIRTHS:
Wilfred William John WELLS WILKINS
Born 4 Oct 1893
Registered: Ulverstone
Mother: Martha WILKINS
Father: Not recorded
Informant: Mother, Martha WILKINS of Kindred
Cheers
AMBLY
Edit: I thought I had corrected it earlier on a modify :), sorry - it was WILKINS I saw too!
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thank you will follow both leads.....
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Can you list all the information on his marriage certificate please...might give a lead to his family - people he was brought up with.
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will look again for the marriage
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I only have marriage from family search....no details, just says father chatwin
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There were three CHATWIN couples having children in Tasmania c1893 however Wilfred's birth has not been registered at as CHATWIN.
BIRTHS:
Wilfred William John WELLS
Born 4 Oct 1893
Registered: Ulverstone
Mother: Martha WILKINS
Father: Not recorded
Informant: Mother, Martha WILKINS of Kindred
My resource has different information
WILKINS Wilfred William John
Father Name Not Recorded Mother Martha WILKINS
4 Oct 1893
At Ulverstone Reg#2995/1893
Marriage
CHATWIN Wilfred William John
AMOS Linda May
25 Mar 1915
At Derby Reg#1461
Cando
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Burial at Carr Villa Cemetery, Launceston
CHATWIN Wilfred William John 76 years
Date of Death 22 May 1964
Date of Service 25 May 1964
Area Monumental Cemetery D4 #543
His age at death indicates a birth c1888
Cando
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I wonder if Martha Wilkins ended up marrying a chatwin ? must go have a wee look see !!!!
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I wonder if there has been an error with the age on Wilfred's marriage on familysearch. If he was born c1888 the age should be 27 and the family search transcription shows his age as 22.
Strange that at that in 1915 he didn't know his parents' names. Perhaps he was fostered by a CHATWIN family.
Cando
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perhaps cando, this is a dead end by the looks of things, but shall keep looking
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Still not getting a link to CHATWIN, but.. even if this proves to be a positive negative, it's at least an elimination:
1897 MARRIAGE: in District of Ringarooma, Tasmania
Married by license, according to the usages of the Salvation Army
#854, 6 February 1897
Thomas THOMPSON 50, Bachelor, Miner, resident of Derby
Born Stavanger, Norway
Father: Ohnon THOMPSON, Carpenter
Mother: Cecilia THOMPSON
Martha WILKINS 20, Spinster, Servant, resident of Derby
Born Westbury
Father: William WILKINS, Carpenter
Mother: Emma WILKINS
Witness': Samuel PEARIN, Derby and Rebecca NORTON, Derby
1914 ELECTORAL ROLL: Sub District of Ringarooma,District of Bass
List Nr 2163: Martha Thompson, Derby, Domestic Duties
List Nr 2166: Thomas Thompson, Derby, Miner
List Nr 2168: Wilfred William John Thompson, Branxholm, Labourer
WWI:
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx
Attested 21 Aug 1914, Brighton, Tasmania
#278, Wilfred THOMPSON
Born Sprent, Devonport
Age 21, Natural Born
Occupation: Miner
Unmarried
Next of Kin: T THOMPSON, Derby
Description: Age 21 (turned this age) last October (so October 1913)
Height 6', Fair hair, blue eyes, brown hair, Methodist.
Scar on left -----(someone else tell me if I'm reading that word right where his scar is?)
He was examined and declared as Medically fit on 25 Aug 1914 and accepted to the 12th Batt. 3rd I.B. Of the AEF.
He was Discharged on 9 Nov 1914 as Medically Unfit.
His signature is on this WW1 record, and perhaps could be compared to the signature of Wilfred William John CHATWIN?
Cheers,
AMBLY
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Advocate 15 Jan 1921
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/66634843?
death and funeral of Martha THOMPSON...Ulvertsone Hospital...wife of Thomas......late of Derby 45th year.......residence of Mr H HILLS....
Advocate 3 Dec 1928
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/67608801?
death Ulverstone Hospital Linda May THOMPSON...23rd year...daughter of Thomas and the late Martha THOMPSON..
.......residence of Mrs BARKER Main St Ulverstone
Advocate 7 Jan 1942
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/68748729?
obit Thomas THOMPSON.......son Arthur THOMPSON, daughter Mrs E BARKER, sister-in-law Mrs KING.
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Scar on left -----(someone else tell me if I'm reading that word right where his scar is?)
I can't quite make it out, but I don't think it's left ball :)
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Possibly not adding much to identifying him but I had a quick look at his death notice in the Examiner, 23 May 1964 and alongside his full name it had in brackets (Tom). Could that be an echo of Thomas Thompson perhaps?
Also in his burial details at Carr Villa his religious denomination is given as Jehovah's Witness. Probably didn't start out in that faith but converted later in life??
Cheers,
Peter
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Wilfred is chatwin on electoral roll 1919 emu bay
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If you are wondering about Wilfred's use of the CHATWIN name it would be useful to see the marriage certificate, 1915.
I wonder how he names his parents, father's occupation, names of witnesses etc.......
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The civil marriage index reference gives no other information other than it occurred in Derby, 25 March 1915 #1461 . Pity it didn't list a church or such. The marriage didn't occur in the Anglican, Methodist or Presbyterian churches of the area because I looked at all three relevant microfilms today...
Perhaps it occurred in the Congregational or Catholic church, alas there are no relevant records available through TAHO for that area for either of those faiths. The only other way to see the marriage certificate without having a clear idea if it was a church wedding would be the purchase the certificate??.
Its also interesting to note that the transcript for the marriage on FamilySearch simply has grooms father's name as Chatwin - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZC-1CQ but when you look at other examples of marriage transcripts for the same time period they nearly all list both bride and grooms parents. If the transcript is accurate then why is it so deficient in that area?
If Wilfred William John Chatwin was say a stepson of Thomas Thompson and his mother was Martha Wilkins why didn't he have that on the certificate? Could he have been given information by his mother as to who his biological father was and he decided he was going to use his real father's surname and put that on the certificate?
Peter
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yes I am thinking along the lines of Thompson being a step father as well. I am going to do some more investigating on Martha and see what I can find.......
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if Wilfred chatwin was born 1888 going on his death age, Martha would have only been 12. wilfred Wilkins born 1893 makes Martha 17 years old........ok....ok, just thinking out aloud
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The marriage of Wilfred William John Chatwin and Linda May Amos is recorded in the Scottsdale Methodist Church register (even though the marriage took place at Derby) and the TAHO reference for the register is NS499/1/1475.
The FamilySearch transcript is correct in essence but they missed one line. At the end of line where Wilfred William John Chatwin is identified as the bridegroom there is in brackets...(known as THOMPSON).
In the space for fathers name is simply CHATWIN and his mothers details have "unknown" written in.
Cheers,
Peter
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this is great news, really great news !!!!! I also noticed that in tom thompsons death notice, there is a granddaughter by the name of mrs sushames, that name is also in our family tree............
thank you thank you thank you !!!!!
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No prob !!...like a good detective hunt ;) I think you might have to look at Robert Chatwin as the possible biological father of Wilfred. Looks as though he was the only Chatwin in Kindred at the same time Wilfred was born. I'm only going on the children he was having at the same time - Louisa Chatwin https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-76p188j2k and Lillian Pearl Chatwin https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-80p203j2k
Did he have a liaison with Martha Wilkins?
Cheers,
Peter
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a bit of hanky panky happened there for sure !!!!! hee hee
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it says Martha was a servant at the time of her marriage......wouldn't mind betting that she was a servant to Robert chatwin or his father Alfred as they were very well off farmers by the looks of it...........you just never know !!!!!!!
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Interesting reading all the info on my grandfather, Wilfred Chatwin. This is what I know/have managed to find out. Nan always said that pop was a year older than her - so that means he was born in 1893. The date of their marriage was sometime prior to May 1914, not 1915 as in the records, because they celebrated their 50th Wedding anniversary prior to pop's sudden death on 22 May, 1964 (I have the old photo slides of them cutting their cake. Pop was quite ill at the time). I figure nan, dad and my aunts and uncles would know when she was married - so I'm disputing the 1915 date - that may have been when the marriage was finally registered but it certainly wasn't when the event occurred. They were married and lived in Morinna - at least their first two children were born there as pop worked in the Anchor tin mine. Linda's father, Henry Amos, had the contract for the mail coach from Morinna to the east coast.
According to Nan, Dad and his oldest sister, pop's mother (Martha Wilkinson) was supposed to have died at his birth and he was brought up in Derby, NE Tas, by people surnamed Thompson, and didn't know his surname was Chatwin until he got his birth certificate in 1914 so he could marry Nan. My father was Reginald Wilfred, the youngest child and Linda, my nan, lived with us all my life until her death in 1986.
I found a birth record for a Wilfred William John Wilkins, born October 1893 to Martha Wilkins (kind of like Wilkinson???). She married Thomas Thompson (from Norway) in 1897 in Derby. Her occupation is listed as servant on the marriage certificate. After the birth record there is no further mention of Wilfred William John Wilkins, and I can't find pop anywhere before 1914.
Assuming Martha was employed as a servant prior to Wilfred's arrival, and she obviously wasn't married to the father, I made the assumption that perhaps the father was Martha's employer, perhaps already married? I was hoping that his birth certificate would help, but if that doesn't have his father's full name, it would have been $60 wasted.
I suspect this missing Chatwin is the connection between my family and the Chatwin's who live on the NW coast of Tas - we know we are related somehow, this has to be the connection. Mum my brothers and I would like to solve this little mystery - Dad and all his family are gone now and it would be nice to know before Mum passes.
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Hi and Welcome to RootsChat :)
Just posting links to Wilfred's birth and Martha's marriage:
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-76p201j2k
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD37-1-58p361j2k
The date of their marriage was sometime prior to May 1914, not 1915 as in the records, because they celebrated their 50th Wedding anniversary prior to pop's sudden death on 22 May, 1964 (I have the old photo slides of them cutting their cake. Pop was quite ill at the time). I figure nan, dad and my aunts and uncles would know when she was married - so I'm disputing the 1915 date - that may have been when the marriage was finally registered but it certainly wasn't when the event occurred.
Peter sourced the information from the church records, not the civil registration.
The marriage of Wilfred William John Chatwin and Linda May Amos is recorded in the Scottsdale Methodist Church register (even though the marriage took place at Derby) and the TAHO reference for the register is NS499/1/1475.
My parents also claimed that they were married a year previous to the actual date until they were eventually outed ;D
Debra :)
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I can't explain the discrepancy in the marriage date - but my great aunt and uncles - that's nan's brothers and sister, when they were alive all said 1914, and they were present at the event. It was all handwritten in those days, so perhaps someone couldn't read the handwriting.
My father's birthdate was 28/10/1924, which all his siblings verified when alive (he was the youngest), but his legal DOB is 30/10/1924, because of the time it took to register his birth in the nearest major population centre. This kind of discrepancy seems a common occurrence in Tasmania in the early days because of isolation, lack of access to transport and communication.
I have copies of the legal documents in my family tree despite the fact that they don't agree with what the family says.
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My father's birthdate was 28/10/1924, which all his siblings verified when alive (he was the youngest), but his legal DOB is 30/10/1924, because of the time it took to register his birth in the nearest major population centre.
His legal date of birth is the day he was born on regardless of when the birth was registered. Birth certificates always have both a date of birth and a date of registration recorded. The Births and Deaths Act only required that all births had to registered within 60 days.
Debra :)