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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: serra on Monday 31 August 15 17:28 BST (UK)
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I need help with finding the following family and any details anyone has about them
Father - George Draper (roughly 1868)
Mother - Ann Baines born 1863 leighton buzzard
If you look at the 1901 Census for Cooling St James, Hoo, Kent you will see
George and Annie Draper with their 5 children
I only found Levi registered as Draper, his father was registered as George Draper and his mother was registered as Ann Draper formerly Scotchings. Index for birth found levi draper born 1893 at hoo Levi had a daughter Norah
Israel was registered as Smith, his father was registered as George Smith and his mother Angelina Smith formerly Cutchings. Index found for birth isreal Smith born 1895 Leighton Buzzard
Ernest was also registered as Smith, his father was registered as George Smith and his mother Ann Selina Smith formerly Cotchin. Index for birth found for ernest smith 1897 in Leighton Buzzard
Finally, Nelly Betsy Smith, her father was registered as George Smith and her mother Ann Smith formerly Scotchin. Index for birth found 1896 nelly betsy smith 1898 hoo
George Draper ( possibly 1886) I have not yet found a birth registration, but I suspect the he will have been registered as Smith as well. So during the Census they said their surname was Draper yet when registering a birth they quoted Smith except for Levi. They must of known what they were doing. Found a marriage for George Draper to Alice Smith 1916 Hoo, need to check this out.
Im trying to find out the smith coneection and why he registered his children smith, and for any details of his parents and where he come from....so confused, really need some help. I am the great grand daughter of nelly
sarah
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A few questions:
Have you found any members of the family in 1911? -- or in fact in any other censuses?
Where do you get the Baines surname from for Annie?
Did your ancestor Nelly marry, and if so, where and when? Do you have the marriage certificate?
With names like Levi and Israel I would suspect that the family had either Jewish or non-conformist roots so may not be found in the usual baptism records. Similarly, many Jewish families anglicised their surnames. A possibility?
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OK - is this the marriage?
Marriages Mar 1892
Baines Angelina Leighton B 3b 515
HOPKINS Mary Ann Leighton B. 3b 515
Radford Richard Leighton B. 3b 515
Smith George Leighton B. 3b 515
do you have the certificate for this?
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1891 - Stoke, Kent
George Draper, farm labourer, age 25, pob unknown
Angelina Draper, wife, age 26, pob unknown
George Draper, son, age 5, pob Rochester, Kent
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Thankyou for your help.
Ann baines is the daughter if kisby draper and ann cotchins
On the 1901 census in my first post you will see that the children are birth registered with the mother showing cotchings, scotchings or variations of it. There is also a Leighton buzzard link. I believe i have found the right family as isreal and levi are as u say unsual, but nellys son is still alive and confirmed that she did have isreal and levi as brothers. But he never understood the Smith naming. He also believes that his grandfathers name was George Draper. Nelly married my great grandfather william Arnold kent and i have done very well following the arnold line. Nelly was always known as nelly draper, as far as we know her father was george draper but that cant be confirmed. I ideally would like to know about nellys dad george. Im wondering was he a "draper or a smith" and did the "draper" name come from ann baines becuase of her father being Kisby Draper. I want to complete as best i can this part of my tree, my granduncle would really like to know, and as he is ageing i would like to give him a correct history of his ancestors
1861 census:
Although the first name is spelt slightly differently, and the surname is completely different, this must be the same person, since Kisby Cotching marries Ann Baines and all the children change their surname by 1871! "Breckhill" is presumably "Brick Hill", very close to the Beds border and near Woburn.
Kisbee Draper, 24, b. Breckhill, Bucks, Lodger Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Baines, 23, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Baines, 2, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ann S Baines, 1, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper Daur, Leighton Buzzard
1871 census:
Note how Ann, Charles and Ann S Baines above are now all "Cotching". The age of Kisby must be a mistranscription, i.e. it should be 35, not 55. Birth place must be "Beds, Woburn Sands"
Kisby Cotching, 55, b. Bedcks, Woburn Lands, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotching, 33, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Cotching, 12, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotching, 10, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
Elizabeth Cotching, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
William Cotching, 6, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Maria Cotching, 4, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
John Cotching, 2, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
1881 census:
A slight variation on the surname spelling.
Kisby Cotchin, 44, b. Woburn Sands, Beds, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotchin, 43, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
William Cotchin, 16, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Mary Cotchin, 14, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
John Cotchin, 12, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Darney Cotchin, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
Thomas Cotchin, 4, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ernest Cotchin, 3, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Sam Cotchin, 3 months, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
1891 census:
Another variation on the surname spelling (and Kisby's age)
Kisby Scotchings, 60, (Place of birth not given), Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Scotchings, 53, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Thomas Scotchings, 14, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ernest Scotchings, 13, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
William Scotchings, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
(Sam Cotching had died in 1882 q1)
1901 census:
Possibly a transcription error in the surname this time...
Kisby Colchin, 66, b. Woburn Sands, Bucks, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Colchin, 63, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Marriage registration from IGI:
Kisby Cotching & Ann Baines
26/06/1864, Leighton Buzzard, England
Husband age at marriage: 27
Wife age at marriage: 26
No father of groom/bride given
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Thankyou I will have a look into this lead
:1891 - Stoke, Kent
George Draper, farm labourer, age 25, pob unknown
Angelina Draper, wife, age 26, pob unknown
George Draper, son, age 5, pob Rochester, Kent
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Serra,
Kisby was quite a character having 14 known children by two, sometimes concurrent, partners Ann BAINES and Cinderella SMITH/BELDAM and was often being mentioned in the press - do a newspaper search for him and you'll find a number of references.
Kisby was one of the sons of William (Billy) and Mary DRAPER. She was a COTCHIN although I've not found a marriage and I've been looking for a very long time. Cotchin has a variety of different spellings including Cotchin, Cotchings, Scotching, Scutcheon.
Billy and Mary's known children are
Ellen - married RAINBOW
Darnitty - married WHITLOCK
Spencer - uses DRAPER and SMITH
Billy jnr
Kisby - uses DRAPER and COTCHIN
Elick (Alexander) - uses DRAPER and SMITH
Billy and Mary are buried at Woburn Sands in Milton Keynes and Billy's his mother Eleanor is buried at Bow Brickhill, Milton Keynes. Billy had a brother Israel hence the use of the name in later generations.
Look for these people on the Travelling People board and you'll find other mentions of the family.
Also have a look at the "1841 census - Kisby Cotching" thread on the Bedfordshire lookup requests board.
You'll also find mention of Kisby on the Gypsy Genealogy site http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/
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I have been researching my family tree and have just discovered I am related to Mary Ann Smith (Daughter of Spencer Draper Smith and Annie Smith), she married William Cosby. I noticed that you have an interest in many people that I have discovered I am related to as well, which is why I contacted you to say hello, I hope you don't mind? I am really new to all of this, in fact this is my first ever post!!! I think the Cosby's might have connections to Ireland but I am not sure!
I don't know much yet about the Drapers/Smiths yet but am starting to learn. If anyone is interested in the Cosby family I am happy to share what I know.
Best wishes :)
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Hello EMJSW - very pleased to meet anyone related to the Billy and Mary DRAPER family.
Have a look on the Travelling People board as you may find more info of interest and, if you don't already know about them, the Romany and Traveller Family History Society www.rtfhs.org.uk and Eric's GypsyGenealogy site http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/ where the family get mentioned in a number of articles.
I'll try and get in touch with you using a personal message (PM) as I think I have some info about Mary Anne's marriage somewhere in my data.
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Hello Darnity,
Thanks very much for the search tips, we were hitting a bit of a brick wall and now have some places to try which are very much appreciated.
I am really pleased to meet you too :)
Thank you for the PM, I have replied and will forward you some information a bit later.
Have a lovely day
:)
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I have been researching my family tree and have just discovered I am related to Mary Ann Smith (Daughter of Spencer Draper Smith and Annie Smith), she married William Cosby. I noticed that you have an interest in many people that I have discovered I am related to as well, which is why I contacted you to say hello, I hope you don't mind? I am really new to all of this, in fact this is my first ever post!!! I think the Cosby's might have connections to Ireland but I am not sure!
I don't know much yet about the Drapers/Smiths yet but am starting to learn. If anyone is interested in the Cosby family I am happy to share what I know.
Best wishes :)
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Hi , I'm also a draper_smith, my grandad had a brother Spencer who went missing in the war? There were many brothers. It would be to here bk from you with any info or family photos history ect .thanks
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Hi , I'm also a draper_smith, my grandad had a brother Spencer who went missing in the war? There were many brothers. It would be to here bk from you with any info or family photos history ect .thanks
Hi, the Spenser Draper Smith I am related to died in 1901. Spenser had a son called Edmund who I think had a son called Spenser, if he went on to have a son called Spenser then he would be the right age for ww1? I have only just discovered I am related and I am afraid I have no photos of the drapers. Do you happen to know why they changed from Draper to Draper Smith? Best wishes.
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Hi yes I do,. It sound like Spencer was my grandad lost brother? Not sure, yes I do no why drapers are draper-smiths.............how are u related to the drapers ? Yes my grandad also had a brothers. Thanks
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Hi,. I noticed your post I'm also a draper and yes there was a George draper in the family. Best wishes
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I am tying to find baptism for a rebecca smith/ draper/doe born about 1879 surrey
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There's a Rebecca DOE b Malden, Surry 25/12/1879 who partners Joseph JAMES amongst the children of Goliath DOE and Mary Ann DRAPER in Stephen Doe's "The Family Tree of Francis Doe" which was published last year.
Hope this is of use.