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Some Special Interests => Quaker Family History => Topic started by: JamesBond on Friday 04 September 15 13:49 BST (UK)
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I have a couple Quaker ancestors whose deaths in the early 1700's were recorded by Bradford Quaker Meeting. It doesn't say where in Bradford, so where would they have been buried, what cemetery? Does Bradford Quaker Meeting have its own? Any help appreciated.
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http://archiveswiki.wyjs.org.uk/index.php?title=Nonconformists_in_Bradford
I have a lot of documentation on the Quakers of Bradford.
Care to post a few names up and I will check.
Regards and welcome Brian
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Thanks Brian. I'd very much welcome that. Here's some names: James & Anne Bond (died 1721 & 1717) and Thomas Bond (died 1702). James & Anne are my ancestors. Not sure about Thomas, but they all loved in Bradford & are the only Bonds I can find having anything to do with Bradford.
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Are you using a computer rather than a phone/tablet to post here?
Reason being I have the Quaker history as a booklet (pdf format) which I could enable you to download and save.
[Your Bond family were recorded in Tong village, as was some of mine]
Brian
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Tong? I've come across that name but never gave it much thought. I know they were Quaker though. Yes, I'm using an android iPhone, its capable of downloading PDF documents. I don't have a computer, crashed sometime last year.
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You don't have enough space to store that much information (27Mb needed) :o
Regarding Tong though, couple of hundred records noted for various Bond named people!
www.calverleyinfo.com Visit to get info you need.
[Click onto enter, look on your left for Vital Records Search, click onto search and enter Bond into surname box then press search.
Might be some time tomorrow before you have read all the Bond information! :) :)
Brian
For family groups in Tong click onto Tong census records, pressing CTRL +F brings up a search box which you enter Bond then press down/up key to view all Bond named people. :) :)
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I might've been able to download that. Who knows for sure. See anything in particular about my James? Lived from 1642-1721, Yorkshire. I'll check out that website. I can only only go back as far as James. Trying to find info on his parents, but can't find anything. Any idea who I could contact about him or where to look? Thanks again for your help.
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11704251/Soc%20Friends%20Bradford.pdf - link removed
Above is a slow download via my dropbox account.
Brian
James married a Martha Yewdall, too much for him as he died shortly after. :o
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It downloaded just fine. Looking over it, trying to find mentions of James, of which I found two so far. I read on another website about him being in some trouble & ultimately being imprisoned. Seemed like quite the rebel. Didn't pay tithes, didn't accept the role of constable, etc. Probably in compliance with the Quaker faith.
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What you have been reading was the 'norm' at the time.
Just imagine you take a fancy to a non Quaker girl, and decide to get wed in the local church.
WRONG! The gentleman gets drummed out of the Quaker movement and is ostracised from all connection with the movement. (Not even other family members are allowed to liaise with you.)
Brian
Been up to Tong during this week doing research.
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Sounds like the Amish. Can't marry non Amish in their churches/barns, if you quit the Amish, can't have anything to do with you family, etc. So was one ostracized for being Quaker or for not accepting to the call to duty? Or both?
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The rule was that being a Quaker one gets married by a Quaker in a Quaker house!
The marriage/birth registration was entered into a book at the monthly meeting.
Brian
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I see, suppose a way to keep things pure & Quaker. Things were tough back then, a lot more tolerant now. Poor James, he'd have an easier go of things these days. Thank you for the download. Having a great time reading through it. Came across other Bonds' who may be related. In some way I'm sure.
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Have a good read, possibly looking at the other Bond named people accounted for in later years in Bradford.
Signing out for the evening, been a long day.
Brian
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Hi
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/ might be of interest
Valerie
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Thanks Valerie, I'll check that out. Trying to find parents for my James Bond but is very hard. They have to be somewhere. Thanks again!
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Don't forget the Quaker records didn't start till 1650 so you are looking for a marriage of James parents/subsequent birth of James in the parish records.
Loads of birth records only show son/daughter of father or mother (if legitimate).
Brian
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Yea, I'm seeing that. I know I won't find his parents in them. Maybe possible relatives. I see the births only list the father, so far.
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"What you have been reading was the 'norm' at the time.
Just imagine you take a fancy to a non Quaker girl, and decide to get wed in the local church.
WRONG! The gentleman gets drummed out of the Quaker movement and is ostracised from all connection with the movement. (Not even other family members are allowed to liaise with you.)
Brian"
Sorry to chip in but I didn't realise Quakers behaved like that so I was a little shocked to read it.
My maternal great grandmother converted to the Quaker religion but my great grandfather didn't nor did their children, in fact one of the sons, my grandfather, became a lay preacher in the Primitive Methodist lot. Now it's got me wondering if her conversion caused any disharmony in the family, no gossip of the like has been handed down. I do know she tried to get her daughter in law, my grandmother, interested which failed.
One of my recently found Gunn (Essex) ancestors was brought up in the Quaker Religion but she married a non Quaker in a C of E ceremony and the children were baptised C of E.
Thanks for that insight into the Quakers.
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Hi
Have you checked the Hearth Tax Returns for clues?
www.hearthtax.org.uk/communities.westriding
www.genuki.org.uk will help with Yorkshire parishes
Valerie
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I'm not from England, so I don't know what kind of records there are over there. But I appreciate any ideas & advice.
That first link didn't take me anywhere, the hearth one. Just a blank error page. And I've tried the other one before.
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Hi James
Apologies for duff website address. Google West Riding Hearth Tax 1672, use the surname index, and then you will need a map of West Riding Wapentakes to see where folk lived. There are fewer Bonds than I anticipated.
The clue is in the title, people were taxed on the number of hearths in their homes, so the larger the number of hearths the bigger the house and the greater the tax.
Before this there are the lay subsidy rolls (poll tax) for yorkshire 1379.
Valerie
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http://www.hearthtax.org.uk/communities/westriding/
[Look for surnames list in pdf format]
Brian
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Thanks guys, I'll try those suggestions.
I've seen places where his parents names are James & Judith Bond. I can't confirm it though, due to lack of baptism or marriage records. What are the chances his family were puritan (parents & any siblings) before the Quaker faith was founded? Thought I might find something if they were Anglican or Catholic, but I haven't.
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I looked & found one James Bond (only spelling of the last name) and found him living in Agbrigg & Morley. It's said he lived in Bradford/Bowling. Where were the places in regard to Agbrigg & Morley?
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The distance between Bowling (Bradford) and Morley (Agbrigg) is about 4miles (as the crow flies).
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/index.html
Good place to start to give you some idea of where a location is and how far away from other villages.
Brian
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Brian, do you know how I can find or download the PDF pamphlet you said you had via dropbox? I downloaded it before but can't remember how I found it unless I downloaded it via your link somehow. Can you post it again? "The Society of Friends in Bradford" I think it was. Think I got rid of it after getting all the Bond info from it. I've since learned of new info I'd like to confirm with the book/pamphlet.
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Just seen your post regarding my dropbox account.
I will transfer the info you require then give you a shout!
Brian
Here you are: - Link deleted
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I think that was it. Awesome. It downloaded fine. Thanks a million. I very much appreciate it. I'll be sure to keep it this time & your message so I can use it if I'm in this pickle again. I made a dropbox account myself but was unale to find the file. So I thought I'd ask you again. Say, I know I have next to no chance of finding anything anywhere without a name, but my James Bond died in 1721, death record says his mother was born in Italy. How would I go about confirming this or eliminating it? I'm sure his folks weren't quaker when they were married, which took place about 1640. If they lived in the parish of Calverley, what kind of church or faith would they have been likely to be members of or affiliated with? Any thoughts? Still working on the Bond line.
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The parish of Calverley covered a very wide area!
St Wilfrids being the mother church collated the records for the various 'Chapels of Ease'.
[ http://www.calverley.info/cr_par_menu.htm]
[ http://www.calverley.info/noncr.htm]
First covers conformist records,second non conformist records.
When it comes to religious beliefs a good start is here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Descriptions/YKS/YKSHistoryIndex.html
Brian
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Does Calverley cover Bolton in East Riding? Or is that in another parish? I know my Bonds lived there too. Would there be a hearth tax for there?
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Bolton East Riding?
Calverley is 6miles from Bradford/Leeds in the West Riding of Yorkshire.
(There is a Bolton near Idle within Bradford)
Brian
I take it you have a limited knowledge of Yorkshire.
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There's a wikipedia article that says Bolton's in East Riding, of Yorkshire. Just going by what I see. Is there anything for Bolton specifically? I know my Bonds were there about 1695.
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The Bolton (East Riding) you found is @40miles away from Leeds on the East Coast.
I still believe the Bond named you found in Bolton are from the village located near Idle/Tong in Bradford.
[Try doing a search for 'Bolton Bradford']
Brian
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Will try that, thanks a bunch. Figured he'd have lived in the general area of Bradford, perhaps his parents/family did too. I'll do some searching. You're a big help. Can't thank you enough. But thanks. :)
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One last query. You said the Bolton/Boulton I want is between Leeds & Bradford. But when I look at a map, I can't find it. Where is it in relation to Tong, what direction & how far? What are the towns due east, west, north & south of it? Trying hard to find it but not having any luck. And is Bolton upon Dearne a completely different Bolton?
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Enter 'Bolton Bradford' into your search engine, resultant search brings up a map - Undercliffe Bradford BD2.
Click onto map and Bolton is highlighted, looking to the right is Calverley.
Brian
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Terrific. That helps a lot. Didnt think of trying that. Can't find anything on Bolton anywhere. But this'll give me something. Thanks so much.
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http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/nearby?CCC=WRY,GR=SE167330,DISTANCE=5,PN=Bradford
Scroll down till you see the entry for Calverley, directly under is Bolton.
1.4 miles N SE167352 Bolton ; Boulton
Brian
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Great! Thanks. Now when I go to that Calverley website, I don't see anything about Bolton or Undercliffe, where town names are horizontal. Are they included under Calverley, Idle or can I find the same kind of info for them on another website?
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The website I last mentioned was called Genuki -
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/index.html
Look for http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Calverley/index.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Bradford/index.html
Just don't get lost! lol 8)
Brian
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Information overload :D lol Alot of great stuff to read over. I'm wondering if James' parents are recorded in the parish register of St Wilfreds or a parish church register in Bradford since Bolton is right nearby. He came from Bolton so I would suspect so.
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Further reading when you have an hour to spare ::)
https://archive.org/stream/historiesbolton00cudwgoog#page/n8/mode/2up
Brian
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Thanks so much for the wonderful info. I have much to read. Would love to go back further, past James Bond, but I haven't found anything in his family before 1665. If I knew what their faith was, might make it easier to find them. At this point, I'm thinking Anglican, because James was found absent from parish church & fined for it. His parents might've been. Likely lived in or near Bolton. What were some of the parish churches in or near Bolton that might have online registers?
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Without payment to somewhere like Ancestry the choice for free information is limited.
2 sites you can use freely are a) www.freereg.org.uk and b) https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Bradford,_Yorkshire_Genealogy.
See how you get on, bearing in mind it's baptism records your chasing only father's name will be indicated.
Brian
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Thanks. I've used familysearch before & seen only the father listed. Haven't used the other one. I'll crack this case somehow someday. I never give up. Always finding avenues or sources. Thanks again!
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I have early marriages and burials for Bradford Parish Church, sadly only 4 Bond named in list.
Brian
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Any worth mention or from the 17th century?
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Burials at Bradford Parish Church
1651 3rd Feb William son of Jeremy Bond of Bowling
1672 27th March Jeremy Bond of Bowling
Marriages at Bradford Parish Church
James Akeroyd to Mary Bond Bradford 27th Aug 1701
That is all!
Brian
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Thanks. I don't know those Bonds, but they likely tie into mine somehow. Thanks again.
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Name James Bond
Residence Place Bowling, Bradford
Gender Male
Burial Date 18 Dec 1721
Death Date 14 Dec 1721
Death Place Brighouse, York, England
Mother's Birthplace Italy
Name James Bond
Event Type Marriage
Marriage Date 31 Oct 1720
Marriage Place Brighouse, Yorkshire
Affiliate Publication Number RG6_1090
Is this James and last marriage?
Brian
Information taken from FamilySearch.
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Yes, that's him in both instances & that's his last marriage, that's the one you told me about a few months ago, where he married Martha Yewdall. Had to be his last marriage cause not only is there no more marriages for him recorded, but he died the year after. I've seen before that he was buried in Bradford. What cemeteries did the Bradford Quakers have in 1721 in their area?
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Go back to your initial post, I provided a link to burial sites.
Brian
Following the marriage of James in a parish church, I believe he wouldn't be allowed a burial in a Quaker plot!
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Further to my last post:
I have managed to find BMD records for the Bradford Quakers which I believe is to current!
Brian
Will send via a personal message as my Dropbox is playing up?
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how do we know James was married in a parish church? the marriage i saw mentioned in the history of the Bradford Quakers that you sent me a file for. what parish church would it have been in if it was? werent the yewdalls Quaker?
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http://www.calverley.info/Brad_quaker_marr.htm
Have a look at these for the moment!
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV74-VL4
Brian
CTRL+F Enter name into box then use up/down arrow to scroll through.
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they both indicate the marriage was done at a Quaker Meeting. theres no mention of a definite anglican parish church. unless youre seeing something im not. lol
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Been looking at ancient records, sorry all are transcripts, the location just shows married at Bradford.
[Although James's house was licensed to be used in Bolton, the records show Bradford]
Other locations shown as owners house in x location?
But Bradford location not given.
Sorry about the confusion.
Brian
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its ok. bolton is between bradford & leeds, right? because i heard of another bolton in lancashire & james was said to be from bolton, i figure the closet one to bradford. cant find his birth in anglican churches in calverley & the Quaker movement didnt start till after he was born. what other kinds of churches could i try?
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Still trying to think this one out!
[What came before the Quaker movement]
After burning the candle early this morning, the early church was built by the 'rich landowner'.
Records are scarce in the country, not like major centres.
Will have to pass on this for the moment, as I don't believe a church had a designated name in the 1600's.
Brian
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Ok, thanks all the same. i use familysearch.org alot & have seen births & baptisms for people named james bond, bonde, bawn, etc, for lancashire & yorkshire. not knowing his fathers name, either i missed him or theres just isnt an entry for him. i thought english records/entries were fairly thorough but after reading your message, im inclined to think otherwise. ill give it more of a think as to what faith his family couldve been. or wgat churches were available to his family as he was growing up. going from catholic to quaker is quite a jump in religious convictions & i believe anglican was the state church at the time, as it is today. im thinking if they were loyal to the crown & peacekeepers, that they may have been anglican. but the church in bolton, st james i think, came later. and bolton was so small. so they probably worshipped in bradford. will think it out, research, and see what i can learn. thanks again. have a great day.
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Would you believe that the Quakers didn't record the baptism of a child?
They just entered into the records the date of admittance.
[Out of interest what do you know about the Bond family?]
You mentioned earlier that there was a foreign connection.
Brian
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i know they recorded births because theyre included in that book/file you gave me the link to. the farthest i can get back is to james bond, who married three times & had a total of seven children. all recorded by Bradford MM. deaths of all three wives recorded also & the marriages of all but two of his children. his son joseph is my ancestor who moved to Pennsylvania USA. there've been made various inclinations as to james' residences, i.e., bolton, bradford & brighouse. ive seen reference to a thomas & jonas bond as being early members of Bradford MM. thomas lived in eccleshill & jonas in bolton. im thinking jonas & james were brothers, along with thomas, possibly, or he may have been a cousin. this is all i know about the bond family. can you tell me anything about thomas other than the marriage of his daughter rachel, his marriage to grace readshaw & his own death in 1702? anything about jonas?
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Other than Bolton and Eccleshill being only one mile apart, I can only guess on the rest?
Brian
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I have asked others if James Bond's father can be located?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=746893.new#new
Brian
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nice, thank you for posing that question. his mother is listed as being from italy, per his death record. so whoever his father, he married an italian girl. i did a dna test & it said i have ancestors from italy/greece, so that's likely correct about his mother.
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Something to make you stop and think?
Looking at some 1700's burial records for Yorkshire, some Quakers buried outside of the church grounds, that is non consecrated ground but within sight of the church!
Brian
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.. James? Lived from 1642-1721, Yorkshire... I can only only go back as far as James. Trying to find info on his parents, but can't find anything. Any idea who I could contact about him or where to look? Thanks again for your help.
Hi JB. Hope you don't mind if I ask some questions.
Is the 1642 an approximate date? This was around the time of the Civil War. Bradford was under siege for a time and in 1643 it saw a very steep rise in burials. I expect some births, marriages and burials went unrecorded or some records did not survive or were lost. It was an extremely bloody and turbulent time.
...I read on another website about him being in some trouble & ultimately being imprisoned. Seemed like quite the rebel. Didn't pay tithes, didn't accept the role of constable, etc. Probably in compliance with the Quaker faith.
Do you have a link for this info? Or perhaps you could you post the info here.
Does Calverley cover Bolton in East Riding? Or is that in another parish? I know my Bonds lived there too. Would there be a hearth tax for there?
How do you know they lived in a "Bolton" (Yorkshire)?
...Would love to go back further, past James Bond, but I haven't found anything in his family before 1665. If I knew what their faith was, might make it easier to find them. At this point, I'm thinking Anglican, because James was found absent from parish church & fined for it. His parents might've been. Likely lived in or near Bolton. What were some of the parish churches in or near Bolton that might have online registers?
Most people were Anglican. Anglican though was, and still is, similar in many ways to the Catholic church. The fear for some people, back then, was a return to full on Catholicism. This meant that some people leaned more toward a nonconformist/dissenter type of church.
Do you have more info about the "fine". Was it for non attendance to an Anglican/CofE church mass?
In post #50. Calverleylads info says the residence was "Bowling". Bowling was , more or less, Bradford. Why do you think a Bolton is "likely"?
... i thought english records/entries were fairly thorough ...
They are but not at these dates !
You are trying to get back a long way here and unfortunately records for these kind of dates have not always survived
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thats alot to answer but will do my best.
1642 is both an exact year & an estimate. ive seen a possible birth from mar 1642 & estimates making it look like he was born about 1642/1643.
heres the link you asked for:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ski/katie/family_pages/bond.html
ive seen marriage records for James' children stating they were all "of bolton". i thought this meant they were living at home with James. plus ive seen a few other sources saying James was born in bolton. theres a small village called bolton on the northeast outskirts of bradford.
the fine is included in the website i shared above.
i think bolton is likely because thats where sources ive seen said James was born, in bolton. thought his parents wouldve lived there. im just piecing info together i find, like quaker records & others.
ive seen records pre-dating 1642, so thought most records are available from most churches before that time.
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I thought he was born in "Bowling" [Bradford] ?
I couldn't find a couple of the marriages but managed to look at these.
1694
Robert Bond of Bolton in the Parish of Yorks to Eliza Milton of Bradford [Yorks]
1696
Rachel Bond of Botton/Bottom? [Yorks] to Timothy Linsey of Manningham [this is Bradford]
1707
Mary Bond of GM? House at? Bradford to Thomas Benson of Gildersom [Gildersome?]
1706
Joseph of Boulton in? the Parish of Calverley to Ann Shires of Sawley
There is a Sawley in Lancashire (might have been in Yorkshire back then, it is border country), close to the Quaker heartlands, as well as the one near Ripon mentioned earlier