RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: Ilovepeanutbutter on Friday 18 September 15 05:14 BST (UK)
-
Hello all,
Please can anybody help with a family tree conundrum? This photo is meant to show three brothers while still in Down, Ireland but I can't prove my ancestor James is related to the others. All have fathers called "JOHN KENNEDY" (like half of Ireland??) ???
(L-R) James Alexander, John Gilbert, William Samuel.
-James Alexander (1877-1956 d.South Africa): May have siblings Mary and John. I have a hard copy of the birth certificate from 1951 which states his mother is Susanna BLACK. James worked in the British GPO 1898 in England, married Edith Nell BURNETT (Non-conformist register) before emigrating to South Africa. They went back to England on various trips together with their children but never again visited relatives in Ireland. Family legend has it that there was a fight of some kind and someone burnt lots of family papers. The mind boggles! I am descended from him. His religion was Protestant.
-John Gilbert ("GIBBIE" 1889-): According to the 1901 census had siblings Jane Dalzell, William Samuel, Olive, Frances ("Fanny") Amelia. Mother was Hannah BOAL (1850-1907)- NB. she has BLACK relatives. John stayed in Ireland, married and had a family. His religion is unknown.
-William Samuel (1886-1965 d.Australia): Siblings match those of John Gilbert's with same mother. His descendants are still in Australia. His religion is unknown.
Marriage Of John KENNEDY and Susanna BLACK:
Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 FHL Film Number 101252 BELFAST
Marriage Of John KENNEDY and Hannah BOAL:
Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 FHL Film Number 101251 NEWTOWNARDS
I am wondering if maybe Susanna / Hannah are the same person... it makes sense that James is not on the 1901 records as he was already in England working for the GPO. I just can't find any document with him and William or Gilbert all on it together.
I have searched ancestry.com using my newly re-activated membership so only really been using it since June. My internet connection isn't great either so everything I do seems to be set in custard. Ancestry works better than r o o t sweb internet-wise so if someone can point me in the right direction that'd be great!
Any help appreciated ... big thanks in advance :)
Heather
(Australia) :D
-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Bangor/Ballygrainey/1251507/
The family in 1901 for reference.
Tara
-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Bangor/Ballygrainey/260025/
1911 for our reference.
Tara
-
So,
The question is what makes you think YOUR James is part of this family ?
Tara
-
Have you actually purchased the two John Kennedy marriages to see if they are one and the same person ?
is that Susannah passed away and John remarried to Hannah ?
Tara
-
Re the pic
There appears to be quite an age gap between the three.
Presuming James is the eldest in the pic . . . I thought you said he didn't return to Down ?
Tara
-
I also suggest you ask the moderator to move this thread to the DOWN IRELAND board where those with local knowledge will see it and be able to help.
Tara
-
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/details.jsp?id=1639256327
The will of John Kennedy
Tara
-
James Kennedy appears to have been from Moneyreagh.
Here are his parents !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Moneyreagh/Moneyreagh/1254579/
Tara
-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGJP-6YD
Brother John.
Tara
-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGX4-PL9
YOUR James
Tara
-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPM1-75K
Sister Mary who is also on the 1901 Census.
Tara
-
John died between 1901 & 1911 but here is Susannah and the other Kennedys.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Moneyreagh/Moneyreagh/263658/
Tara
-
So, just to update:
YOUR James Alexander Kennedy is NOT a brother of John Gilbert Kennedy and William Samuel Kennedy.
I'm not sure where this leaves you and why you thought James from Moneyragh was a brother of the two men from Ballygrainey.
Please update us as to if you would like help researching John Kennedy and Susannah Black.
Tara
-
This is the marriage of John and Susanna !
You will need to get this cert to get their father's names and to take your research back another generation.
First name(s) John
Last name Kennedy
Registration year 1874
Registered Quarter/Year 1874
Registration district Belfast
Volume 6
Page 398
Tara
-
Susanna said that she was from Ballykeel.
I can only see one other Black from there.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Moneyreagh/Ballykeel/1254531/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Moneyreagh/Ballykeel/263590/
Tara
-
Blacks and Kennedys of Ballykeel.
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/down/comber.htm
Tara
-
Possibly James' brother John.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Moneyreagh/Ballykeel/1254518/
Tara
-
Your Kennedys say Unitarian ~
I wonder are these Kennedy's related ie Mary possibly being the mother of John ???
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Moneyreagh/Tullygarvan/1254667/
Tara
-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g5k/
Just noticed that all the Kennedy's in Moneyragh were Unitarian.
Tara
-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g5k/
Just noticed that all the Kennedy's in Moneyragh were Unitarian.
Tara
Fantastic information thank you so much for everything Tara you have really looked at this! I have sometimes wondered whether the "James" in the photo is really a James at all, or maybe they all intermarried or something... looks like what the family has been told about the photo may be wrong- a wild goose chase down the generations! About to go on an overnight work shift so will have a look at the links after church tomorrow in between shifts- will follow up everything you suggested. Thank you again have a great day/night :)
Heather
(Australia) :D
-
Good Morning Heather.
It certainly appears that you went on a wild goose chase.
How, Where did you get the idea that.the other two chaps were James' brothers ?
What EXACT info do you have on the picture ?
Is it YOUR picture ?
Tara
-
Hi Tara, yes it is my picture- passed down through the family from James Alexander himself (supposedly) - there is writing on the back naming the three men and stating they are brothers (supposedly). I have been contacted by other people saying they have pictures of William Samuel and John Gilbert which match the men in the photo. No news on the third man yet. Doesn't mean they're related though... will follow up your hints thanks again! :)
-
You will need to go back at least one or two generations to see how James is related to the other Kennedys and how a picture of them came to be in his possession.
There could be a connection through the maternal line.
I think you alluded to a possible Black connection.
Not the rarest of surnames to be dealing with so a lot of careful research and paperwork to be looked at.
Tara
-
You will need to go back at least one or two generations to see how James is related to the other Kennedys and how a picture of them came to be in his possession.
There could be a connection through the maternal line.
I think you alluded to a possible Black connection.
Not the rarest of surnames to be dealing with so a lot of careful research and paperwork to be looked at.
Tara
Okay will do! And thank you again for all your help. Will pop more names into my website and see how the cookie crumbles!! How exciting! :) Heather
-
heres a James with a father William
from
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/K/KennedyAJ.htm
interpreted as
William Kennedy & Mary McKenna
children
James KENNEDY . Comber of Moneyreagh; b. abt. 1863;
children
William b. abt. 1893
Samuel b. 1896 RAJ g9/71/82
that ref stands for RAJ Descendants of James Orr of Scotland -1607 onwards
Ray A. Jones Ray A. Jones; Lib Congress # 77- 82468 1977
On another query I answered this week I traced that a version of Ray Jones book is online were you the seeker?
some Mary McKenna’s, have their births and Marriage listed by http://www.ancestryireland.com/ and on www.emeraldancestors.com
-
heres a James with a father William
from
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/K/KennedyAJ.htm
interpreted as
William Kennedy & Mary McKenna
children
James KENNEDY . Comber of Moneyreagh; b. abt. 1863;
children
William b. abt. 1893
Samuel b. 1896 RAJ g9/71/82
that ref stands for RAJ Descendants of James Orr of Scotland -1607 onwards
Ray A. Jones Ray A. Jones; Lib Congress # 77- 82468 1977
On another query I answered this week I traced that a version of Ray Jones book is online were you the seeker?
some Mary McKenna’s, have their births and Marriage listed by http://www.ancestryireland.com/ and on www.emeraldancestors.com
Thank you much appreciated, will check it all out :) No that wasn't me re- Ray Jones book. I have found two more brothers of James Alexander - Samuel Bailie and Joseph so getting there thanks to good teamwork, thanks again!
-
Hi the other Kennedy co down topic going on currently with some possible overlaps is on http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general/16097.2.1/mb.ashx
-
I have an ebook available for download on the Comber history Society website see http://www.comberhistory.com/index.htm#alpha1 see the siubject index near the bottom of the page it contains these entries for mcKenna BUT I stopped work on it about 2008
McKenna, Isabella , Miss. Comber Wife of William John Turkington; Mother of Margaret B. 1865 CR . , freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/
McKenna, James, Comber of MoneyreaghA Farmer; Will Probated 8 Sep 1856 IIW #45316, freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/
McKenna, Mary, Miss. Comber of MoneyreaghB. Abt. 1838; Married William Kennedy 6 May 1858 In MoneyreaghMother of Robert B. 1859 & James B. Abt. 1863 & Robina B. Abt. 1875 RAJ G8/71, freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/
McKenna, Samuel, Moneyrea D/654/A3/1N Freeholder in www.proni.gov.uk
McKenna, Samuel, Moneyrea D/654/A3/1S Freeholder in www.proni.gov.uk
-
Hi the other Kennedy co down topic going on currently with some possible overlaps is on http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general/16097.2.1/mb.ashx
I see my reply to this message has not been accepted by the internet. I am really getting tired of having to repeat postings... and no doubt people thinking I haven't replied when I have. Sorry about that. My reply (again) was- thanks for the tip. I checked it out- that is actually my posting on ancestry's forum! But thank you so much for taking the trouble to have a look around. People overall have been so generous with their time. I am still quite new to this and am really pleased that things are moving along... :D
-
I have an ebook available for download on the Comber history Society website see http://www.comberhistory.com/index.htm#alpha1 see the siubject index near the bottom of the page it contains these entries for mcKenna BUT I stopped work on it about 2008
McKenna, Isabella , Miss. Comber Wife of William John Turkington; Mother of Margaret B. 1865 CR . , freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/
McKenna, James, Comber of MoneyreaghA Farmer; Will Probated 8 Sep 1856 IIW #45316, freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/
McKenna, Mary, Miss. Comber of MoneyreaghB. Abt. 1838; Married William Kennedy 6 May 1858 In MoneyreaghMother of Robert B. 1859 & James B. Abt. 1863 & Robina B. Abt. 1875 RAJ G8/71, freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/
McKenna, Samuel, Moneyrea D/654/A3/1N Freeholder in www.proni.gov.uk
McKenna, Samuel, Moneyrea D/654/A3/1S Freeholder in www.proni.gov.uk
Thank you for that- looks like both sides of my family may be from Comber. I have Cumbers and Kennedys (and doubtless their derivatives) in my tree. Lots to look at- thanks again. Have a nice day/night :)