RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rian on Thursday 08 October 15 07:16 BST (UK)
-
Please could some kind person help me find out who owned 1 York Road, Lambeth in 1881?
It is described in the census as "gardener's cottage" but I would like to know who was the gardener's employer. This end of York Road is at Westminster Bridge and it is possible the cottage belonged to Lambeth Palace, or even to Buckingham Palace (family stories say the gardener in question was working for: 1. Queen Victoria; 2. Kew; 3. someone important) – so it could be anyone!
Many thanks.
-
How does the Duke of York sound?? Important enough for you! 😄😄😄😄😄😄
Oops - Only kidding - looks like that's a pub, 1 York Terrace - didn't look properly! Didn't notice until I pasted the link? Got excited! Sorry! But it does list the residents in 1881 census!
http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/Lambeth/DukeYorkCamberwell.shtml
-
What census page are you looking at? 1 York Road is on piece 587, page 19 folio 12. I can't see any mention of a gardener's cottage. Numbers 1 and 3 are enumerated together with 80 and 82 Waterloo Road. According to my 1880 directory, numbers 1 and 3 were the York Hotel.
-
It's census piece 626/36 page 25; Rbt Warren. The address is written in the left hand column (but also looks like it's written as 125 York Crescent?), along with "Gardeners Lodge" (not cottage – sorry my mistake).
I'm wanting to find who owned the house and was Robert Warren's employer.
-
OK I see it now - piece 626, page 25. It's enumerated with York Crescent but it does clearly say " 1 York Rd" above " Gardners Lodge".
As mentioned in my earlier post, 1 York Road was part of the York Hotel.
-
Odd isn't it? Was the York hotel in Lambeth as well?
-
piece 626, page 25. It's enumerated with York Crescent but it does clearly say " 1 York Rd" above " Gardners Lodge"
That piece is Norwood. I think we have been looking at the wrong York Road
-
York Road in Norwood can be seen on this 1862 map, off Royal Circus. http://www.mappalondon.com/london/south-east/norwood.jpg
Tonge House (the previous household on that 1881 census page) is just above "York"
-
Thanks for your clever detective work!
I see Norwood on the top of the page now you point it out.
Is Lambeth a large area for the point of view of the census then? Norwood seems to be quite a long way from where we were looking originally.
Now I'm REALLY confused as to who Robert worked for!
-
The enumerator's description of his district is worth looking at. He had part of St Luke's Ecclesiastical District which includes "2 houses on York Road occupied by Mr Drink and Mr Christmas" and part of St Peter's Streatham E.D. consisting of "York Crescent, Tonge House, and Cambrian House". The Gardner's Lodge is in that latter group.
Looking at the map, Tonge House is right at the beginning of York Road and has extensive gardens so my guess would be that the Gardner's Lodge belongs to Tonge House.
Is Lambeth a large area for the point of view of the census then?
It's the parish of St Mary Lambeth which reached south as far as Norwood. See http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/__data/assets/image/0005/304295/01296-640.jpg
-
Googling Tonge House. Suggests it was a charitable institution in 1929, set up by Bertha Portal.
Searching the 1881 for just the name portal gives a family of this name in York crescent Lambeth,
Retired wine merchant, wife, one daughter and several female servants.
Mike
-
GARDENER.- WANTED: a man and his wife, as GARDENER and LAUNDRESS, without family, both thoroughly good. A comfortable dwelling, with coals and gas. Good wages.- Apply, by letter, addressed Mr. P., Tonge House, York-road, West Norwood.
(Sussex Agricultural Express, 7 May 1889)
Your Robert Warren's wife Ann was a laundress per the 1881 census so this is another pointer to the Portals of Tonge House being their employer at that time.
-
Wow!What a lot of information. It certainly looks like the Portals were his employers. I see that Tonge house is now in the centre of the Royal Circus roundabout and is a home for elderly ladies.
I know that Robert Warren went to Australia sometime prior to 1891, but not when. This ad would suggest that he had left before May 89 (his son was in Australia by 1884).
Robert became the head gardener at Government House in Brisbane, so he must have had good references.
I think you have cracked it – thank you so much!
-
Just to add more circumstantial evidence there are newspaper ads in 1896 by a "T. Long, Gardener's Cottage,Tonge House, York-road, West Norwood".
-
That sounds like the clincher!
Thank you!