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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Vatersay on Tuesday 29 December 15 19:43 GMT (UK)
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Hello everybody
I am researching a ship wreck in 1853 on the island of Vatersay in the Outer Hebrides there were 11 children aboard sent to Canada by ragged school orphanages in London only two survived.
http://www.anniejane.net/
What's that got to do with Australia?? you ask. Well one of the survivors subsequently took passage to Melbourne, Australia in early 1854 I would like to find out if he was successful.
His name was Robert Conning Walter and he was sponsored again by the ragged school organization he would have been aged 13 to 14, I think he was continuing to Victoria where possibly his sister Martha was.
Martha was sent out by the ragged schools between 1851 and 1853 she would have been aged 16 to 17 in 1853 and also sent out from a London orphanage. I know she was also shipwrecked on the way to Australia and was only left with the clothes on her back.
There was another brother called Richard I have no record of him except he was in an orphanage in London in 1851 he was two years older than Robert.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Regards Allan
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Conning or Canning? The 1851 entry has an amendment submitted in 2010 by a Carol Jackson saying his middle name was Canning
The same person also notified the same amendment to his baptismal record
He was born 15.1.1840 and baptised the next day at St Mildred Poultry. Parents were Richard a tavern keeper and Rebecca
Rebecca's maiden name was Canning
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXSJ-8T5
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At the same church - other children baptised to Richard & Rebecca were as follows
Martha 26.2.1837
Richard 16.4.1838
Elizabeth 3.4.1842
Rebecca Canning 27.2.1846
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This is the 1851 entry - initials only but CarolJackson has notified full names.
R Walter 40 (female - Rebecca) widow - fundholder b Hindon Wiltshire
M Walter 14 (Martha) b St Pancras
R Walter 5 (Rebecca Canning)
E Stiles 16 female - visitor b Hindon Wiltshire
O T Jones 6 female - visitor b Camberwell
B Davis 40 female servant b Stroud Gloucs
HO107 Piece 1499 Folio 302 Page 34
It may be worthwhile contacting Carol Jackson via Ancestry as she would appear to have a connection to this family
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Very strange - 1861 entry - children b Middlesex
Rebecca Walter 50 fund holder b Wiltshire
Richard 22 clerk - corn exchange
Robert 21 clerk - wine merchant
Rebecca C 15
Elizabeth Slater 14 visitor b Marlborough Wilts
Rebecca Davis 40 house servant b Gloucs
RG9 Piece 141 Folio 111 Page 24
Why would a fund holder have children in the ragged school? Why would Martha or Robert be sent to Australia from an orphanage when their mother was still alive and had a servant in 1851?
Robert appears to be back with his mother by 1861
Deaths September qtr 1871
Robert Canning Walter aged 31 Chichester 2b 231
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1841 census Rockley St Andrew Ogbourne Wiltshire
Richard Walter 35 Tavern Keeper yes
Rebecca 30 Yes
Martha 4 No
Richard 3 no
Robert 1 No
Bradford Stiles 11 Yes
Jennifer
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Brother Richard married 14.10.1875 - St James Holloway
Richard Walter - brewer - father Richard - wine merchant
Sarah Jane Fluker - father James - solicitor
Witnesses Robert Conning Walter & Martha Whitton/Whatton or something else - not very clear
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Richard Walter married Rebecca Canning 15/5/1834 Ogbourne Wiltshire
Jennifer
Sorry Carole just seen you have already posted this. :)
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Hi Jen - Link to 1834 marriage posted in reply #1 above
As Robert died in Chichester - so might Rebecca
Deaths June qtr 1879
Rebecca Walter 70 Chichester 2b 254
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His name was Robert Conning Walter and he was sponsored again by the ragged school organization
Regards Allan
In 1851 Richard and Robert are at Christ's Hospital School - it wasn't a 'ragged school', more about the conditions of entry here:
http://www.victorianlondon.org/education/christshospital.htm
Debra :D
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Rebecca left a will - executor/administrator was son Richard
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
EDIT - this reply refers to Rebecca senior who died 1879
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Rebecca Canning Walter never married and you will find her on the 1911 census in Kent
Deaths June qtr 1926
Rebecca C Walter 80 Tonbridge 2a 918
She left a will - see https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
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An interesting 1901 entry - 19 London Rd Southborough Kent
Ann Rochester 48 single - school mistress b Scotland
Rebecca C Walter 55 - adopted sister- living on own means b St Mildreds London
plus 2 servants
RG13 Piece 756 Folio 91 Page 26
In 1891 she is in lodgings in Kent RG12 Piece 680 Folio 138 Page 38
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Thanks' for your replies
How very confusing, is nothing straight forward ???
I have discovered a personal account of the shipwreck written by Robert Canning Walter in late 1853. He begins the narrative ( I became an inmate of Bloomsbury school about the 15th of March 1853, l will Pass over that portion of time from my first entering the school as an orphan to the time I left to go to Canada ) Leaving me in no doubt it was a sponsored emigration by the ragged school and he returned after the shipwreck to the shelter of the ragged school organization in Bloomsbury. Then he finishes his narrative ( Since my return I have been enabled by a few kind friends to procure a passage to Australia, I may yet live to bless the day I first entered a ragged school )
The supervisor finishes ( He has sought help again of the ragged school committee which with the assistance of a lady in Cheltenham, has been afforded so as to secure him a passage to Victoria. He sailed a few weeks since for Melbourne at which place he has a sister.
So as clear as mud, looks like Robert came back or never went.
I am not on ancestry at the moment so could somebody PM Carol Jackson for me.
Regards everybody
Allan
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Hello everybody again
I did that last post in a hurry, just to correct something I did not discover the document a very clever lady a roots chatter from Canada to whom I am forever indebted found it.
And I will also correct, could somebody please PM Carol Jackson for me if she is related to Robert I think she will be interested.
Regards again and thanks for your patience and help.
Allan
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Rebecca and Ann Rochester are still living together later are single and shown as 'Ladies', so Richard in the will must be her brother not her son.
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
The Rebecca living with Ann Rochester was b 1846 - daughter of Richard & Rebecca and sister of Richard b 1838. Her executors were Ann Rochester and James Hughes Cooksey (town clerk)
Richard b 1838 was the executor/administrator of his mother Rebecca's will 1879
Because of the sequence of the replies it could read either way - I should have been clearer
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One of my senior moments Carole . :D
Jennifer
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I have discovered a personal account of the shipwreck written by Robert Canning Walter in late 1853. He begins the narrative ( I became an inmate of Bloomsbury school about the 15th of March 1853, l will Pass over that portion of time from my first entering the school as an orphan to the time I left to go to Canada ) Leaving me in no doubt it was a sponsored emigration by the ragged school and he returned after the shipwreck to the shelter of the ragged school organization in Bloomsbury. Then he finishes his narrative ( Since my return I have been enabled by a few kind friends to procure a passage to Australia, I may yet live to bless the day I first entered a ragged school )
The supervisor finishes ( He has sought help again of the ragged school committee which with the assistance of a lady in Cheltenham, has been afforded so as to secure him a passage to Victoria. He sailed a few weeks since for Melbourne at which place he has a sister.
Regards everybody
Allan
I assume that you have definitely confirmed the identity of the boy onboard the ship as being Robert Canning WALTER, not a different Robert WALTER?
Can you give the context of the above narrative? Where is it recorded? Is it only about the shipwreck? It doesn't sound like it was written by a 13 year old.
It is possible that between 1851 and 1853 his mother's financial situation worsened but then improved by 1861 after her sons had been working.
The admittance and discharge records of the two institutions would be the best place to look for notes on why/when he was there.
I cannot see anything obvious in the arrivals and departures for Victoria, but the records are not complete.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/ships-and-shipping
Debra :D
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Like Dundee, I too have searched and searched for your lad's arrival into any of the colonies and I cannot find a possible arrival 1853-1854.
And even if he managed to arrive in Victoria, I cannot find him leaving Victoria to be back in England in time for the 1861 Census
http://guides.slv.vic.gov.au/c.php?g=245260&p=1633084
And like Dundee, I know the records are not complete.
Here's the RChat Resources board for Victoria,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369963.0
Here's the link to the free to search digitised newspapers and much much more http://trove.nla.gov.au/
Cheers, JM
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In 1861 Robert's sister Martha was living with her uncle and aunt in Oxfordshire - Robert and Sarah Ann STILES.
(RG 9; Piece: 885; Folio: 104; Page: 11)
Their marriage:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXSJ-HPX
If Robert and Martha did come to Australia then they didn't stay long.
Debra :D
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I have discovered a personal account of the shipwreck written by Robert Canning Walter in late 1853. He begins the narrative ( I became an inmate of Bloomsbury school about the 15th of March 1853, l will Pass over that portion of time from my first entering the school as an orphan to the time I left to go to Canada ) Leaving me in no doubt it was a sponsored emigration by the ragged school and he returned after the shipwreck to the shelter of the ragged school organization in Bloomsbury. Then he finishes his narrative ( Since my return I have been enabled by a few kind friends to procure a passage to Australia, I may yet live to bless the day I first entered a ragged school )
The supervisor finishes ( He has sought help again of the ragged school committee which with the assistance of a lady in Cheltenham, has been afforded so as to secure him a passage to Victoria. He sailed a few weeks since for Melbourne at which place he has a sister.
The person is named as R C WALTERS not Robert Canning WALTER ::)
The 10 pages from the Ragged School Union magazine, Jan 1854 are in the public domain:
http://postimg.org/gallery/t4xxlnwm/
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Many thanks Merlin,
So whether it is Conning or Canning makes no difference whatsoever then ....
:) ::) :)
Someone needs to undo any message sent to the living person named in the following quote
It may be worthwhile contacting Carol Jackson via Ancestry as she would appear to have a connection to this family
Cheers, JM
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Hello everybody.
I have ended up more confused again.
I have been back through the original newspaper articles there is a Robert Walter on the third boat that left Barra and was driven to Skye. In another article he is Walker but never Walters, though in the narrative he is called by the other boy's Walters.
So are we saying that at that period there were two boys roughly the same age in London orphanages one called R C Walter and one R C Walters?
I think its more likely that Robert took the money and cashed in his ticket and never went to Australia, who could blame him after all he had been through.
In only one place is he called Walters that is in the ragged school magazine.
Not saying I am right but it's a possibility.
Can I say I also think its an impressive piece of writing by a 13 year old, what does that say for their education system or what does it say about ours?
Will try the London Metropolitan library after everything returns to normal for records of disharge, hoping this will give me the origins and ages of another 10 individuals.
Thanks again to everybody for your time and your efforts it is very much appreciated.
Allan
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....
So are we saying that at that period there were two boys roughly the same age in London orphanages one called R C Walter and one R C Walters?
I think its more likely that Robert took the money and cashed in his ticket and never went to Australia, who could blame him after all he had been through.
In only one place is he called Walters that is in the ragged school magazine.
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Hi there,
According to the following website, the population of London in 1851 was well over two million people. Would you expect there to be two youths in London, one as R C WALTER and one as R C WALTERS. The surname could well be mishmashed as WATTERS too ....
http://www.victorianlondon.org/population/population.htm
Please remember that earlier in this thread Dundee posted that Robert and Richard were at Christ’s Hospital School and provided a live link to the conditions of entry.
In 1851 Richard and Robert are at Christ's Hospital School - it wasn't a 'ragged school', more about the conditions of entry here:
http://www.victorianlondon.org/education/christshospital.htm
ADD
From the online index of Wills and Administrations.
31 July 1880.
Administration of the Personal Estate of Robert Canning WALTER late of St James;s near the City of Chichester, Brewer, a Bachelor who died 29 June 1871 at St James’s was granted at Chichester to Martha WALTER of the Ferms Wickham in the Parish of Rumboldswhyke in the County of Sussex Spinster the Sister.
That would match the online index for 3rd Quarter of 1871 that has:
WALTER Robert Canning, 31, Chichester 2b. 231.
But as to the supposition that R C WALTER, the lad who wrote the article being actually a lad named Robert Canning WALTER, likely still young enough to be a boarder at the school Dundee located and that it was Robert Canning WALTER who was funded by the Ragged Schools (and not by his own school) to embark from Liverpool (rather than from London where Robert Canning WALTER and family members likely were) heading to Canada on the Annie Jane sorry but the dots are simply not joining up for me.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKV2-Z1G2 1851 transcription
Further ADD
" Robert C Walter ( aged 13 among a group of 11 orphans being sent to Canada ) " http://www.anniejane.net/passengers/steerage-passengers-surviving/
Cheers, JM
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Some possible 1851 England census sightings for various Robert lads....
HO107 1185/19
WALTER Richard, Robert, Martha in 1841 with their parents Richard and Rebecca in WILTSHIRE
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M732-68X
so is this a different family from the one mentioned in the OP with Richard at an orphanage in London in 1851 census ? ? ?
There was another brother called Richard I have no record of him except he was in an orphanage in London in 1851 he was two years older than Robert.
HO107 1761/204
WALTER Robert, born London, pupil at Linton CAMS
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKV5-235L
HO107 2430/351
WATERS Robert, Lodger, at Carlisle CUMBERLAND
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVY-F723
HO107/2146/489
WALTERS Robert G, boarder, at Alstonefield, DERBYSHIRE
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVJ-F1LF
Cheers, JM (I am NSW Australia based, and almost all of my ancestors were already in NSW before the Gold rushes which commenced 1851, so I am not familiar with searching the UK census, sorry)
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Happy New Year everybody. :)
JM thank you for all your hard work I am embarrassed and humbled by the amount of time you have spent on this
Assume nothing, You think I would know that by now.
I will alter the entry to ( Robert C Walter among a party of 11 orphans from London bound for Canada ) all I ever wanted was the origins of the immigrants just to show what a national and international catastrophe it was, the ages just add another dimension, his age was based on the other Robert.
I will be asking for somebody to look up the orphanages records when the festive season is over so God willing that will establish who the young Robert was, I cannot manage down to London till after June this year. I am excited because it should give another 10 individuals the survivor who vanished and the 9 who died. If they match the names on the list we will be able to have a lot more confidence in its veracity.
You will be the first to know who Robert is, that's a promise.
Thanks again and all the best for 2016
Allan
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Well I took on board the info from Dundee and Merlin, and while my husband has sorted out his shed today, I have had free reign with my favourite hobby too, so not too many spars were lost before you were able to see the bigger picture. Aussie searches use different FH tools from say UK searches .... but we all aim for the same end result ....
:)
Cheers, JM