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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Irish Finder on Thursday 14 January 16 10:12 GMT (UK)
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With our family tree, I know the above went to NZ around 1920+. To no avail i have tried to find the boat and dates they left. Their children are Millicent Bennet Martin 1910, Robert Martin, James Martin, Ernest Martin, Clara Martin and Honora Martin. Any help on the above would be a blessing ;D
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Do you know John and Clara's birth dates, did they travel with the children?
Do you know the childrens birth dates?
They may not have all come on the same ship?
This could be Clara Snr
Mrs C MARTIN aged 34 arrived Auckland New Zealand from Liverpool in 1920 aboard the Paparoa
Also have you tried posting on the New Zealand board on Rootschat as some of the people there are very good at narrowing down this information?
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Robert John Martin - born 06/02/1881 (father). Clara Jane Martin (nee Turner) mother born 03/07/1879.
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Birthdates for some of the children-
Millicent Bennet (11 May 1910)
Robert (19 Nov.1911)
Ernest Thomas (28 Dec.1912)
Honoria Florence (22 Mar.1915)- GRONI has Hanoria
Clara Jane (registered July/Sept.1919)
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Tried to narrow down the possible date of going to N.Z. since I can't find passenger list.
Waikumete Cemetery
Robert John Martin died 18 Mar.1936
Clara Jane Martin (age 90) died 1969
Rotorua Cemetery
Ernest Thomas Martin (28 Dec.1912-8 Aug.1988)
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Wow, thank you for your kindness and research prowess 'Aghadowey' ;D ;D :D :D
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Found them with maybe a surprise traveller :o
"Ormonde" 24 Dec.1921 departed London, England for Sydney, Australia
Mr. R.J. Martin, farmer, 39
Master R. Martin, 9
Mrs. C.J. Martin, housewife, 39
Miss M. Martin, 11
Master E. Martin, 8
Miss N. Martin, 6
Master J. Martin, 4
Miss C.J. Martin, 1
Mrs. N. Turner, occupation- nil, 70
all travelling together, last U.K. residence was Swateragh, Co.Derry, Ireland and intending to settle in N.Z.
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You are brilliant! Thank you!! ;D ;D ;D
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N Turner, I wonder if this is M Turner? who really is Melisina Bennet Turner, who is Clara's mother? I cant find anything on Melisina Turner, a death certificate or her birth, only she was born in 1850 in co Waterford to Michael Turner, who again I cant find anything on his either of who Melisina's mother was. Melisina married as a minor to William Turner on 17/1/1867 in Ballinderry, Moneymore, Londonderry.
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Family in 1901 & 1911 censuses:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Swatragh/Swatragh_Town/1545700/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Swatragh/Swatragh_Town/611778/
Probate abstract from PRONI wills site:
Probate of the Will of William Turner late of Swatragh, County Londonderry, Farmer, who died 3 December 1906 granted at Londonderry 10 November 1921 to Clara Jane Martin, Married Woman, the daughter. Effects £91 5s.
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Thanks Elwyn!! ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)
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Census and other details were already posted on an earlier thread... where my question remains unanswered :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738601
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Robert John Martin 1936 obituary (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19360321.2.5&srpos=5&e=18-03-1936-19-05-1936--10--1----0robert+martin--) and another (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZH19360319.2.2.3&srpos=7&e=18-03-1936-19-05-1936--10--1----0robert+martin--)
May be a co-incidence but there was a Turner family in New Lynn- see here (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZH19280924.2.115&srpos=7&e=18-03-1921-19-05-1936--10--1----0turner+%22new+lynn%22--)
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Wonderful!! That is definitely my Robert Martin that you found!! Thank you so much for your prowess and kindness!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)
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Can anyone please assist with a birthplace and the mother of (I cant find in PRONI) :
ROBERT JOHN MARTIN - 06/02/1881
Died 18/03/1936 Dublin
Robert was a 'motor driver from Portrush', his father was "Robert Martin' on his marriage certificate to Clara Jane Turner 30/06/1909 Magherafelt, Killelagh Church Of Ireland.
They left for NZ.
Many thanks ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Magherafelt is merely the district.
What is the father's occupation on the 1909 marriage certificate? names of both witnesses?
Is this the family?
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Portstewart/Crossreagh_East/1545998
Not this family
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Dear Aghadowey, PRONI has been my only source for the marriage certificate. PRONI doesn't have his birth, so I am thinking it was somewhere else, which I cannot find ??? ??? ???
So this is all that I have been able to find:
30/06/1909 marriage Robert John Martin to Clara Jane Turner.
Robert was a 'motor driver' and was living at Portsush at the time of the marriage
Clare Jane was a 'post mistress' and was living at Swatragh at the time of the marriage
Robert John Martin's father was Robert John Martin (labourer)
Clara Jane's father was William Turner (school teacher)
Witnesses are Robert Alexander Houston & William B Lurrat (I cannot read this writing)
;D ;D
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I cannot read the last surname
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Could the signature be Millie (Melisina) Turner?
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I cannot read the last surname
The file is a bit compressed, it would be good if you could make it a bit bigger.
I also thought Turner, but above it is 2 other words with T, and they are not simliar.
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But if it's her signature then it would be different.
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The signature in question is William B Lurrat
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I didn't realise that you knew that for certain....though I can't find anyone with the surname Lurrat anywhere in Ireland in the 1901 or 1911 censuses.
There is a Milicent Turner here,signing the Ulster Covenant in 1912 http://apps.proni.gov.uk/ulstercovenant/image.aspx?image=W0016890006
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Witnesses are Robert Alexander Houston & William B Lurrat (I cannot read this writing)
I cannot read the last surname
Or the first name either apparently- it is Millie B. Turner not William B. Lurrat (I too doubt such a surname is found in Ulster)
I also thought Turner, but above it is 2 other words with T, and they are not simliar.
The capital 'T' in the surname would be different in shape than the small letters in the name above even if the same person was signing.
According to the 1911 census (link posted earlier) Robert John Turner Martin was born in County Derry- remember that Portrush is just on the Derry/Antrim border.
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Thank you Familyroutes for this:
There is a Milicent Turner here,signing the Ulster Covenant in 1912 http://apps.proni.gov.uk/ulstercovenant/image.aspx?image=W0016890006
At least I know my Great Aunt was still in Swatragh in 1912 from the above. I cannot find her leaving Ireland, getting married or dying in Northern Ireland . I do struggle with research, so I will keep looking to see what happened to her and if I have any living relatives descended from her;D ;D ;D
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Thank you Aghadowey for your handwriting prowess on the 'Millie B Turner', that then means Clara's sister was a witness. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Do you mean Robert John Martin (not Robert John Turner) being born in Derry. As PRONI is only from 1864 onwards, where else can I look up a birth certificates and buy online? ??? ??? ???
With the 1901 census, there is reference to a Jennie Turner, I cannot find any Jennie Turner's being born to a Melisina and William Turner on PRONI. Where else can I look to verify she is real? Further what happened to her? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Do you mean Robert John Martin (not Robert John Turner) being born in Derry. As PRONI is only from 1864 onwards, where else can I look up a birth certificates and buy online? ??? ??? ???
Yes, have just corrected the error.
Civil registration of birth started in 1864 so before that date there were no birth certificates.
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With the 1901 census, there is reference to a Jennie Turner, I cannot find any Jennie Turner's being born to a Melisina and William Turner on PRONI. Where else can I look to verify she is real? Further what happened to her? ??? ??? ??? ???
Of course Jennie Turner was real- you've mentioned her repeatedly and her name is in the title of this post ::)
Robert John Martin - born 06/02/1881 (father). Clara Jane Martin (nee Turner) mother born 03/07/1879.
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Hi Aghadowey,
Other than in the '1901 census' I cannot find Jennie. Also, I have found other family trees which have the same family and none of them have a "Jennie" as a sibling (not even Jenny or a Jennifer). Jennie is born circa 1879.
For example, on Ancestry, Robert Turner who married Martha Graham (her older brother) was born in 1871, it doesn't have a mention of her. Same for Annie Ellen Convery (who was born Turner and born in 1873).
If civil registration started in 1864, why cant I find Jennie? Can anyone find her? ??? ??? ??? ???
I would really like to know what happened to her ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Isn't Jennie Clara Jane?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRM6-QZ4
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Dear familyroutes,
That I cannot answer. I had asked my mother this exact question (as Clara Jane was her Grandmother), however my mother said she was always known as 'Clara' and not by any other name. I had also asked the question if she was a twin, to which my mother didn't know (but also for the below paragraph, my mother didn't know about anyone else's existence at this generation level)
The family changed religion to 'Plymouth Brethren' and then discarded any members who didn't follow suit. This makes my research harder as I have no family history. ???
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For the LAST time- Clara Jane Turner was listed as Jennie in 1901 census. Jennie is a nickname for Jane and the age matches her birth. Before posting before I checked ALL the births for the Turner family and Clara was not a twin and there was not another child called Jennie.
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Hi Aghadowey,
Thank you for your reply, however I am merely checking as for Clara Jane Turner (now a Martin) in the 1911 Census is aged 30, In the 1901 census there is a Jennie Turner who is aged 22.
If you do the math on the above, the 1901 census will have a birth year of 1879, the 1911 census will have a birth year of 1881, that is a gap of TWO YEARS.
Further, my mother said she was always "Clara". It is because of this 'age gap of 2 years' and the fact that I cannot find her, that I posted on Roots Chat in case there is something I have missed ???
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Firstly, you need to approach ages listed in the censuses with great caution and a large pinch of salt!
My grandmother was born in 1863 according to her marriage cert. By the 1901 census she was born in 1866 (which would have made her 12 when she married!) In the 1911 census she'd lost the three years again. My great aunt managed to gain 14 years between censuses(which was closer to the truth but still wrong).It depends who filled in the form and how sure people were about their DOB etc.
Nicknames used in families could be dropped later...I was "Junior" until well into my teens! Maybe Jennie thought that Clara sounded better for a married woman. I think we can safely say Jennie and Clara Jane are one and the same.
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can someone please look up a marriage of Robert John Martin to Mary Jane Chambers. i got the the death certificate of Robert John Martin in New Zealand which showed the above as his parents. it-said Robert John Martin jnr was born in Londonderry but i cant find his birth.
is anyone able to look up anything /find anything on the above persons ie dates of birth and for the parents, the parents marriage and any other children born ;D
thanks greatly
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does anyone know if a woman called Thomasina could be known as another name? ie Mary Jane
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I am trying to find information on this family (that someone else has posted on - 'Irish Finder'). I shall put below what i have (factual). i am trying to find out more about Charles Martin (shoemaker) and Thomas Chambers (labourer) these facts are off the wedding certificate of Robert John Martin married 5th May 1876 Tamlaght Upper (O'Crilly) to Thomasina Chambers (seamstress). Both Church of Ireland. Witness was Martha Chambers who i have deducted to be the sister of Thomasina and i also have her marriage cert. What i do NOT know, is Thomasina's mother and other siblings and the wife of Charles Martin, where he was born and died. I have these siblings of Robert John Martin: Elizabeth Anne 4/3/1877 Drumnacannon (Londonderry), Thomas Charles 24/3/1879 Killyguilb (Londonderry), Anne Jane 1889, Mary Ellen 1886, Charles 15/8/1881 (Ireland xo found) and Nannie 16/9/1888 (Ireland xo found). I have tried to find information, any help is greatly appreciated.
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I have these siblings of Robert John Martin: Elizabeth Anne 4/3/1877 Drumnacannon (Londonderry), Thomas Charles 24/3/1879 Killyguilb (Londonderry), Anne Jane 1889, Mary Ellen 1886, Charles 15/8/1881 (Ireland xo found) and Nannie 16/9/1888 (Ireland xo found).
Birth records are on Irishgenealogy.ie -
Charles - 15th August 1881 at Drumard.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02808/2030270.pdf
Nannie Jane - 16th September 1888 at Drumard.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02508/1929863.pdf
Drumard townland
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/loughinsholin/tamlaght-ocrilly/tamlaght/drumard/