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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: g eli on Wednesday 10 February 16 19:09 GMT (UK)
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I know almost nothing about Elizabeth Froggart, except that in the will of my 2G grandfather (William Goodall born c1810 Shirley Derbyshire son of Robert & Hannah) she is named as my cousin the late Elizabeth Froggart.
Elizabeth had left William the property at 100 Canal St Saint Peter Derby.This to be his for his lifetime. In William's will the property was to be sold and the procedes to be divided amongst his children.
William's will was written 20 Feb 1896,so Elizabeth was dead before this.I don't know if Froggart was her married name or her birth name.
Help and suggestions needed and welcomed.
Liz
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So, if she left property to William, it is likely she too left a Will.
First job might be to look for that?
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Probate search link here
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Have you looked for her death pre-1896
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Unless it was pre1858, there are only two entries for Elizabeth Froggatt (not Froggart) in Derbyshire
1872 is only Letters of Adminstration
1895 is a Will - That one is a widow of Worksworth. Executors are Sarah Evans (wife of Thomas) and Elizabeth Roobottom
Of course, the one you are looking for may be neither, as may not have died in Derbyshire
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A possibility from FreeBMD Deaths:
June qtr 1883
Ludlow Registration District vol 6a, page 376
Froggart, Elizabeth age 62
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Thank you for your suggestions, I had tried looking for wills without much success, but the Wirksworth one looks as if it might be promising, since I had thought that maybe William's will was written due to some change in circumstance.
Liz
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Here is the death of that one, so we have an idea of her age
Death
Ap/May/Jun 1895
Belper
ref 7b 336
Elizabeth Froggatt
age 72
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This might be her in 1891
Holloway, Belper
Elizabeth Froggatt 69 bn Slackholm
Sarah E 35 dtr unm Honey trimmer bn Slackhome
Elizabeth H 31 dtr unm bn Slackholme
Modified - don't think this is the right one. There seem to be two around, one bn Stackhome and one born Matlock, within a year or so of each other.
See next post, the Matlock one seems to be the one who left the Will, (Rooboottom link) and therefore the one we want to trace back to see if she links with the Goodalls
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And 1881
Northside, Worksworth
Edward Roobottom 34 hotel keeper bn Stafford
Elizabeth wife 28 bn Matlock
Annie Elizabeth 2 mths dtr
Elizabeth Froggett mother in law widow visitor 58 bn MAtlock
So that is the Elizabeth Roobottom who was one of the executors
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I was just wondering, if she left the property to her cousin and then for it to be divided on his death between his children, wouldn't that indicate that she was childless and didn't have anyone to leave it to? So probably either a childless widow or a single person?
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1871
Horse Shoe Inn, Matlock
John Froggatt 55 wheelwright and innkeeper
Elizabeth 49 bn Matlock
Walter 25 son wheelwright bn Matlock
Sarah Evans 22 dtr married farmers wife bn Matlock
Elizabeth 18 dtr unm
Thomas Evans 25 son in law farmer
+ couple of wheelwright apprentices
so we see Sarah Evans, the other executor here! Good, still on the right track
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Going back, Walter seems to be the eldest. Is 5 on 1851 (still at Horse Shoe farm)
This could therefore be the marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1845
Belper
ref 19 472
no Elizabeth listed, but some names are missing
Looking at Elizabeths married that quarter in Belper, there are many. None with surname Goodall, but then cousins often don't have same surnames if for one (or both) or them it is the mother who is the sibling of the other cousins parent.
Ill try and look through them and see which one has a ref that should be 19 472!
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I'm sorry, but why would that Elizabeth leave property to her cousin if she had daughters and sons in law, and therefore close family?
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I've no idea!
Unless it was left to her with some conditions. Or her husband had built up a sizeable estate from his innkeeping, or had money inherited from his family, which went to the daughters, and she left her property (which may have come from her side of the family originally) to her cousin for some reason.
But it was the only Will (post 1858), so I was trying to build up a picture of that Elizabeth Froggatt with a view to either ruling it out, or ruling it in!
Maybe we can rule her out - or at least say that she is unlikely. Wont know for sure without getting the Will. But, in the absence of a better candidate, she remains in the running!
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Possible marriage?
John Froggatt - father Thomas
Elizabeth Elllis - father William
Marriage 25 Jul 1842, Matlock
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Considering where the property was, could there be any connection with this Elizabeth in 1841?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M739-H3X
Elizabeth Froggart (house keeper)
Event Date 1841
St Peter, Derbyshire, England
Residence Thornton Lane
Age 33-37
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1841 has an 18 yr old Elizabeth Ellis in Matlock with father William, a joiner. John Froggatt is living next door
Elizabeth Ellis
Baptism 15 Sep 1822, Matlock
Father William Ellis
Mother Sarah Ellis
William Ellis
Sarah Bland
Marriage: 6 Jun 1815, Matlock
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Possible marriage?
John Froggatt - father Thomas
Elizabeth Elllis - father William
Marriage 25 Jul 1842, Matlock
Looks good, as Elizabeth Ellis was chr Matlock in Nov 1822, bn Jun 1822, parents William and Sarah.
Now - was William Ellis or Sarah xxxxx a sibling of either Robert Goodall or Hannah xxxxx ? ?
If so, she is our girl!
If not, then she still might be, if cousin is being used in a general sense and they are really second cousins or something!
Or, as groom has sensibly pointed out, does she seem an unlikely candidate altogether?
(red writing Mabel - Well done, I see you have got Sarah's maiden name)
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Forgot to mention John Froggatt on 1841 is a wheelwright - I note John Froggart on 1861 is wheelwright and publican
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Oh!This is exciting. Still a mystery but avenues to pursue, thank you so much. I forgot to mention Robert Goodall's wife Hannah was possibly mn Whorton.
Liz
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Looks like it is becoming less likely this is her then! Was rather hoping Hannah would be nee Bland and therefore Sarahs sister!
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John Froggart is at the Horseshoe Inn, 18 Feb 1858.
News report on an inquest there.
Earlier .
May 8th 1850.
Horseshoe Inn, Matlock for sale - advertised as "now in the occupation of Mrs A Bown and others "
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Derbyshire Advertiser & Journal, 9 April 1897.
Advert for the auction of 100 Canal Street, 4 rooms, scullery, cellar, private rear garden, in the occupation of Mr. Ransome Churchyard. Great name - but is he connected to the family ???
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I would read this as meaning Mr Ransome Churchyard is the sitting tenant, so not sure there's much chance he;s connected
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Hi Mabel, yes you are probably right. I have been looking through old newspapers for clues and spotted the article so I posted in case it became relevant. Still looking ;D
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Jool, thank you for the message about the sale of 100 canal St, now I know it was a house, I have only found it on one census.
Liz
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http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/frontpag.htm
It might be worth taking a good look at this site, there is a lot of detail on there.
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/MK-06.htm#Top
C 1842aug01 FROGGART Thomas=John/Elizabeth(Matlock)[Wheelwright]
C 1844dec08 FROGGART John=John/Elizabeth(Matlock)[Wheelwright]
C 1845dec23 FROGGART Walter=John/Elizabeth(Matlock)[Wheelwright]
C 1848sep17 FROGGART Sarah=John/Elizabeth(Matlock)[Wheelwright]
C 1851jan19 FROGGART George=John/Elizabeth(Matlock)[Wheelwright
B 1851jan28 FROGGATT George(Matlock){aged inf}
C 1852jun13 FROGGART Elizabeth=John/Elizabeth(Matlock green)[Wheelwright
C 1854oct08 FROGGART Robert=John/Elizabeth(Matlock green)[Wheelwright]
B 1845feb04 FROGGATT John(Matlock){aged inf}
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Thank you Wilcoxon.
I knew about the Wirksworth site but had forgotten how to access it.
The number of Frogg*t names may be very useful.The spelling varies considerably but I think they must be the same family, even if the connections are much further back.
Liz
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I think I have found the Will of Elizabeth,died 26 May 1885, at least William Goodall was one of the executors. She was a widow born c 1809 died 1885 Ashbourne.
Haven't found a husband yet so I may order Death cert.
Liz
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That death on FreeBMD suggest a birth c1806, so this is the obvious candidate in Smith's yard Ashbourne in 1881
Elizabeth Froggatt 75 - widow, b Mayfield Staffs. Former dressmaker
RG11, 3423, 43, 30
Following Elizabeth Froggatt b Mayfield is confusing, as there is one the right age, but single, living with various people, including her sister in Dunstable when she's a school teacher. However, I think this is actually the same person on 1871
George Foggart 67 - former butcher b Ashbourne
Elizabeth Foggart 65 - wife, b Mayfield, Staffs
RG10, 3598, 47, 36
in 1861 George has a different wife, so looking for a marriage between the two censuses I find George Marrying Elizabeth Froggart! Q1 1866
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Elizabeth Froggat
Baptism 14 Sep 1805, Mayfield, Staffs
Father - Thos. Froggat
Mother - Esther
BINGO!
Esther Goodall
Thomas Frogatt
Marriage 4 Oct 1804, Mayfield
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Wow! This is really exciting. Thank you Mabel,
Now to see if I can find Esther she is definitely a new name.
Liz
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I got the will of Elizabeth Froggatt. It was really helpful,her husband's possessions which had been left to her she bequeathed to his brothers or if they were deceased to their offspring and she named them all with either occupations or residence or both.The rest of her estate went to William Goodall and his nephew William Blake son of her cousin Anne.
Elizabeth was the one born Mayfield,daughter of Thomas Froggett and Esther Goodall She married George Froggatt in 1866 she was single he was a widower.
This information also helped me with another query I had on Rootschat about William Goodall and his father Robert. Esther Goodall was Robert's sister.
Liz