RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Patroy on Friday 25 March 16 09:11 GMT (UK)
-
Morning all, ready to tear my hair out but before I do could I ask for fresh eyes to look at this please.
I have William PLUNKETT on the 1871 and 1881 census in Liverpool, he is with his wife Catherine. We know Catherine is a SMYTH and she was born 1843 in Dublin (we have the baptism).
They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.
Nowhere can I find a marriage for William and Catherine, would welcome your thoughts please. Thank you
-
If you don't have her marriage to get her father's name how do you know you have the correct baptism?
What religious denomination were they?
-
On the 1881 census they are shown living in Liverpool with mother in law Smyth.
One of their children Charles joined the Liverpool Regiment as a child, obviously didn't like it as we next found him on a ship's list as a stowaway bound for Australia. He stayed in Australia and variously gave his mother's surname as Smith/Smyth/Callahan.
On the basis of this information we established that Smyth (the mother in law) was a Callahan prior to marriage and had married a Smyth.
They were Roman Catholic.
-
Civil registration of Catholic marriages started in 1864 so they could have been married in a Catholic ceremony earlier and thus not appear in the civil registration index.
There is a possibility that Catherine's maiden name wasn't Smyth.
-
So this would be the baptised you believe is hers
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/acd9c00325239
-
Yes that is the baptism we believe belongs to Catherine Smyth.
On FindMyPast I put in just the surnames of both parties and it came up with Catherine Smyth and a list of people who she may have married, one of which was Bernard Plunkett.
-
Very confused here :-\
I have William PLUNKETT on the 1871 and 1881 census in Liverpool, he is with his wife Catherine. We know Catherine is a SMYTH and she was born 1843 in Dublin (we have the baptism).
They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.
Nowhere can I find a marriage for William and Catherine
yet now
On FindMyPast I put in just the surnames of both parties and it came up with Catherine Smyth and a list of people who she may have married, one of which was Bernard Plunkett.
-
Apologies if I have confused you.
The census returns show William Plunkett and Catherine. The 1871 census shows mother in law, Mary Smith, aged 66, born Ireland
I was trying to explain that I had wondered if they were just using the names William and Catherine so I had searched for a marriage between Smyth and Plunkett. There was a result which showed that a Catherine Smyth had married one of a list of people, from the list one of those people was a Bernard Plunkett. I could be grasping at straws and want to believe that William is really Bernard but the fact that they named their first born son William John it is highly unlikely.
-
You've started with the assumption that because 'mother-in-law' was Smith that Catherine's maiden name was also Smith which may or may not be correct.
Next you've found a Dublin baptism for a Catherine Smith with mother Mary and assumed it's the correct person.
Lastly you searched for a Plunkett-Smith marriage and come up with groom as Bernard Plunkett...
1) Mary Smith may be Catherine's mother but she could have been married more than once or had Catherine before marriage
2) Not all records are online and there doesn't seem to be any way, at the moment, of known if this is the correct person
3) again, not all records online
They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.
Bohermeen is about 35 miles from Dublin. How have you established that this Mary is a daughter?
Best to start by establishing Catherine's maiden name then work back. Any of the children born in Ireland after 1864? or any at all born in England?
-
Thank you for coming back to me and for giving me food for thought.
The 1871 census shows Mary aged 5 born Ireland and also William John aged 5 but no place of birth, however these two children do not appear on the 1881 census.
-
Hello,
I have found your family in 1871 but not yet 1881.
The baptism if Charles shows his mother as Smith, so you are on the right track. :)
Heywood
-
Liverpool Catholic Records - translated names from Latin
William John Plunket 27th June 1867
Catherine's surname transcribed as Linnth but reads Smith.
-
There are also these- is that correct?
Catherine- Catarina Plunket Born 24 Aug 1876 baptised 14 Sep 1876
Emily Plunket Born 18 Oct 1880 baptised 8th Nov 1880
Alice Plunket born 6October 1882 baptised 22 Sept
Then Edward 1873
Agnes 1878
-
Yes they all belong. Does that mean that William John Plunkett was born in Liverpool? I have sent off for the birth certificate of Charles but that will take a bit longer due to the Easter break. Thank you so much for your help.
-
1871 shows William John 3 yrs born Liverpool.
-
fabulous help, thank you
-
Well done, heywood :)
William's death certificate confirms mother as Catherine Smith-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFW1-SGH
-
Thank you Aghadowey and that's good news re confirmation for Catherine. :)
-
Oh wow, loving all the information that is being provided, certainly giving me something to work on and think about. A simple thank you is not enough, but thank you all the same. ;D
-
Morning all, ready to tear my hair out but before I do could I ask for fresh eyes to look at this please.
I have William PLUNKETT on the 1871 and 1881 census in Liverpool, he is with his wife Catherine. We know Catherine is a SMYTH and she was born 1843 in Dublin (we have the baptism).
They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.
Nowhere can I find a marriage for William and Catherine, would welcome your thoughts please. Thank you
Hi Patroy. William and Catherine are my 2nd great grandparents, so if you are still around, I would love to make contact with you.
-
Hi, I am still here but as I cannot find Plunkett in my personal tree I can only assume it was in one that I did for someone, if you have your tree on Ancestry would you mind giving me access and I will try and work out what I was doing. Pat
-
My ancestry tree is "Bradworthy to Geelong". If you look up Alfred Wilding born 1874 you'll see my info :)
-
I finally put my aged brain in gear and remembered why I was looking for Plunkett/Smyth :D, it was while I was helping out a family member who lives in Australia, as it turns out through DNA she now believes that a Jenkins was the person she should have been looking for and not Plunkett. Her great grandmother was married to Plunkett (he died in Sydney) but it turns out that the child was born to a previous husband namely Jenkins.
Pat
-
I've been in touch with this family, and yes it was a different Charles Plunkett. Thanks for taking the time to reply Pat, it's greatly appreciated :)