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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 14:11 BST (UK)

Title: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 14:11 BST (UK)
Hello

I  have a William Curtis born about 1781 in Glamorgan and an Alice Jones born about 1769 in Glamorgan and died 1 Nov 1845.  Trying to find out who there parents are and their marriage date but have come to a full stop.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 14:27 BST (UK)
So Alice was 12yrs older than William?

If you have been unable to find a marriage - how do you know her surname was Jones?  What other information do you have that is not included here?

Given the age gap - could it have been a second marriage for Alice so was Jones her birth surname or her previous married name?
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 03 April 16 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi would I be correct that this is Alice in 1841 Census :-

William Curtis 60
Alice 72
Watkin Jones 35
Residing Neath. Glamorganshire
Census ref HO107/1421/10/6/4
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 15:08 BST (UK)
Thank you Keyboard86 that is the only info I have regarding the parents but these are definitely the ones I'm looking for but I just can't get any further back regarding their parents.

As you can see CaroleW the age difference is shown on the info given here by Keyboard86 that Alice is older than William. 
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 15:11 BST (UK)
As the 1841 does not show relationships - how have you determined that Alice was nee Jones?

Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 15:16 BST (UK)
We had some info sent to us a few years ago that clearly states that Alice's surname was Jones and Watkin was her son but as I said before I can't get any further back.
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 03 April 16 15:22 BST (UK)
I'd be doubtful as to their being related as on the form there is a single line between Alice Curtis and Watkin Jones, which can delineate between two households at the same address or separate family and non related persons at an address, e.g. servants

If yuo look at 1851 you;ll see that William Curtis was actually born in Llanddeusant, Carmarthenshire
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 15:36 BST (UK)
I did see the 1851 for William but since the birth date was different, the 1841 said he was born in Glamorgan and we don't have Margaret Curtis and William Griffiths on our tree, I don't think this is my William. 
As I said before Mabel Bagshawe, we had some info sent to us that says that Watkin was the son of Alice.
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 15:46 BST (UK)
With a surname like Jones – I’m sure you appreciate the problems in determining the right family.  There is nothing in your post to support  that Watkin Jones was related to Alice or that Jones was her maiden name.  The 1841 entry does not support it either.

What confirmatory info were you sent that Watkin was her son?

Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 16:11 BST (UK)
Strange - there is no death reg 1841-1861 for an Alice Curtis and no 1851 entry. 
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 03 April 16 16:24 BST (UK)
Hi the Glamorgan Burial Index shows a burial of an Alice Curtis 5th November 1845 aged 80 abode Pentreclydau, Cadoxton Juxta Neath St Catwg
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 16:53 BST (UK)
Freebmd are keeping it a secret  ;D
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 03 April 16 16:57 BST (UK)
Freebmd are keeping it a secret  ;D

 :) So just wondering what information Elsa24 was supplied, that gave an exact date of death of 1st November 1845?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 17:11 BST (UK)
Somebody may have bought a copy of the death cert but as there is nothing on freebmd I don't know how they did it
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 18:12 BST (UK)
Hi
We received some letters from a family member who was also researching this family which included Alice's death date along with her son Watkin's birth year and death date.  As to how they found out, I'm not really sure.
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 03 April 16 18:16 BST (UK)
Hi again, so Watkin, what was his birth date/place of birth, death date/marriage?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 18:32 BST (UK)
We have his birth at around 1804 in glamorgan (going by the 1841 census) and a death date 5 Jan 1845 in Neath.  I haven't any marriage for him though.  He has a brother Richard Jones b. 15 Feb 1807 in Pentreclwydau, Neath and d. 22 Jan 1891 in Crigau, Near Resolven who we stem from. 
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 03 April 16 18:42 BST (UK)
Hi the Watkin Jones who was buried 6th January 1845 abode Pentreclydau was aged 41
Did his brother Richard marry, if so when and to whom?
Keyboard86

EDIT Yes a Richard Jones aged 85 was buried 22nd January 1891 abode Crigau, Aberpergwm St Cadoc
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Sunday 03 April 16 20:15 BST (UK)
Hi
Richard married Ann Thomas 6 Aug 1836 in Cadoxton Juxta, Neath
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 April 16 20:17 BST (UK)
If they were both the children of Alice Jones - then she must have been previously married.  Without her maiden name prior to the Jones marriage - you won't be able to go back further

I wonder who reported Watkin's death?  If Alice was his mother and if she reported his death - then at least we know we are on the right track
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 03 April 16 21:02 BST (UK)
Hi again, the source of your information,  how did they link Watkin with Richard,  who I have located in most census returns including this 1841:-

Richard Jones 30
Ann 25
Mary 4
Gweny 2
Residing at Tyn Evil, Cadoxton
Census ref HO107/1421/ 10/5 / 3
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Curtis and Alice Jones
Post by: Elsa24 on Monday 04 April 16 08:59 BST (UK)
Hi
I'm not too sure how Richard and Watkin where linked, we just had it written in a letter.
CaroleW I think you might be right about Alice being married to someone else getting the Jones surname.  I've just found a marriage on Free Reg for an Alice John and Evan Jones 14th Jan 1799, so I'm wondering if this might be the right one.