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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: fb22 on Friday 17 June 16 19:45 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anybody give me information re
James Giles 22392 8th Batt KIA 28 April 1916
Michael Giles 18852 1st Batt KIA 28 Sept. 1918
Service records medals etc
Thank you
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
James Giles
Rank - Private
Medal Awarded - British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment - Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Regimental Number - 22392
Previous Units - 8/R.D.F. 22392 Pte
JJ
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On James' Medal Roll Card he was also awarded the 1914-1915 Star.
Theatre of war first served in - France
Date of entry - 20.12.15
JJ
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Hi fb22,
A very warm welcome to RootsChat!
Here is the CWGC entry for Michael Giles: http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/458088/GILES,%20M
Also the CWGC entry for James Giles here: http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/585762/GILES,%20J
Medal index card for Acting Corporal Michael Giles here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2747982
Medal index card for Private James Giles here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2747767
The medal index cards links are to the National Archives website, they are however online on the Ancestry website.
There may or may not be service records for these men as 60-70% of these were destroyed as a result of enemy bombing raids in WW2.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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Michael Giles
Rank - Acting Corporal
Medal Awarded - British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps - Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Regimental Number - 18852
Previous Units - 9/R.D.F. 18852 A/C
JJ
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Michael Giles' widow Ellen received £23 3s 1d on 19.3.19 (Army Register of Soldiers Effects)
JJ
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Thanks to everybody that answered my query
Is there any information on when Michael Giles joined the Army?
Thanks again
fb22
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Is there any information on when Michael Giles joined the Army?
Unfortunately not, it would appear that his service records have not survived.
JJ
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Thank you J Jen
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Is there any information on when Michael Giles joined the Army?
If you use the NA's WW1 medal search for nearby numbers - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-medal-index-cards-1914-1920/ - starting with 1885?, 1884? and 1886? - where ? is a single wildcard - you get these men who joined the RDF about the same time:
Canavan, James. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18840
McCauley, W. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18856
Brady, William. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18845
Mooney, A. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18855
O'Toole, Christopher. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18861
Cahill, W. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18859
Monney, Andrew. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18855
Jennings, William. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18851
Cahill, W. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18859
McGowan, James. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18847
Condon, Michael. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18868
Brady, Joseph. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18846
Manning, William J. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18865
Markham, William. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18850
Heffernan, Robert. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18841
Byrne, Michael. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18854
Cahill, W. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18859
Hanna, David. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18849
Slater, Patrick. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18848
O'Rourke, P. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18862
Paget, Robert. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18863
Hickman, Thomas O Brien. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18864
Cahill, William. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18859
King, Patrick. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18842
McCauley, William. Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18856
Hart, Joseph Allen. Corps: 1st Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18867
Bradbury, Charles H. Corps: 2nd Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Regiment No: 18869
Some nice uncommon names that you can check on Ancestry - 'WW1 Service Records', 'Pensions' and Silver War Badge records
Ken
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18863 James Paget (from Ken's listing and using his technique) joined 9th RDF on 8 Feb 1915. Michael was 9th Bn on joining (edited) so very near that date.
maxD
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Further to Michael. The 9th Bn amalgamated with the 8th in October 1917 to form 8th/9th which was then disbanded in February 1918, the men going to 1st and 2nd Bns so Michael ended up in 1st Bn (although we don't of course know, in the absence of his detailed record, whether he transferred earlier).
maxD
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As MaxD said the Battalions amalgamated early 1918 simply because they didn't have enough men for 4 Batts. & at the end of Aug. 1918 still only had just over 900 men. They went into battle again 4/5th. Sept. in the village of Ploegsteert which was successful & then entrained for Ypres.
They then attacked the German front on the 28th. when Michael died. This took place across a broad front North of the Menin Rd. at Polderhoek & Ghelvelt. They then swung S.E. towards Kruiseke.
It's somewhere in this area that he fell. There were many casualties.
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Michael Giles 18852 Soldiers Wills
http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/reels/sw/1918_22/GilesM_E657126.pdf
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Thank you to everyone for your replies and help
I have a question on soldier's wills
Did they make a will before a battle or when they entered the army
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This will was signed on 23 August 1918 and he first put 8/9th RDF and then crossed out 8/9th and put 1st which suggest this was when he transferred from the former to the latter battalion. The date accords with the disbandment of 8/9th as Jim1 has explained. Soldiers were encouraged to write a will when they went on active service, good explanation here :
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-people/research-family-story/3306-wills-of-english-soldiers-killed-in-the-great-war.html#sthash.Ecdt3gvy.dpbs
The action on 28 September 1918 is described in detail in the war diary. It is sobering to read that the narrative diary for September 1918 "has not been written owing to the continuation of active operations but will be attached to October's diary".
maxD
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Re James. The action on 27/29 April 1916 in which James lost his life is described here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_attacks_at_Hulluch
8 RDF suffered greatly. After the attacks, A Company, in which James was serving, had only 45 effectives out of a total strength of some 190. The other 3 companies had slightly fewer casualties.
maxD
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It is sobering to read that the narrative diary for September 1918 "has not been written owing to the continuation of active operations but will be attached to October's diary".
This had me at it for a while as the orders weren't written up until the 22nd. which led me to think it was another operation....until I read the preceding pages.
It's also sobering to think that this is the same piece of ground they fought over in 1914.
After 4 years neither side had gained anything but lost a huge amount of men.
It's difficult to imagine as you drive along the Menin Rd. today just how much suffering there was over it.
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You can use the date of death and amount of war gratuity awarded (in the Soldiers' Effects entry) to calculate a reasonably accurate enlistment date (to within a week or three).
https://wargratuity.wordpress.com/category/gratuity-calculation/
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A very useful calculation that I have used successfully many a time. Using it to cross check the "find another near service number" method which gave a date just prior to Feb 1915, the calculation comes up with Dec 1914 - good enough for government work!
maxD
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Many thanks again to everyone for all their help.
I have now a much bigger picture on the history of Michael and James