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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: pipkins75 on Tuesday 21 June 16 10:33 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am researching Fred Whitby b1892, Weston Point, Cheshire. His family moved to Salford during his childhood. He lived in and around Ordsall I think, Gertrude Street, Cavendish Street I am trying to find out two things. I cannot find him on the 1911 census. He would have been about 19 or 20 years old, just before he married Mary Caffery.
I know he was a deserter during WW1, but I am trying to find out what happened to him after the War. Would be grateful for any information.
Thanks!
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Hello'
There is this death on Free BMD
March 1948 Salford vol 10f pg 502
Fred Whitby 55 yrs
His death certificate may help with his whereabouts after the war.
Find my Past has a 1939 index- you could try that for address and occupation.
Looking at his military records, it looks to me as though he rejoined on the two times he was absent and he was found guilty of 'absent without leave' rather than 'desertion'. You would need to check that though.
The last offence was 1919 and from hospital - again please check to verify.
Heywood
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Heywood,
Many thanks for that. I shall take a look at the 1939 and also am glad you mentioned about being AWOL twice. I had that but wasn't sure as the script was so feint.
Thanks!
Pip.
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I wonder if Fred was imprisoned somewhere and the family disowned him. They stae they have only had 4 children and only 1 still living (William) whom they went to live with. They in fact had 6 children
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Sorry - post removed as I was looking at the wrong person, so what I said was a load of rubbish!
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Thanks lizdb - no problem, I do that all the time!
Thanks lancsann for the suggestions. Yes they did have 6 children and they were all alive in 1911. I don't believe they would forget how many children they had, so there is a reason buried in there somewhere! I have searched for Fred in the criminal register and cant find anything. I am not sure where to look for hospital records, but its possible. I know he was blind in one eye but not sure whether that was from birth, accident or other. Thanks for trying. Pip
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The free index for the 1939 National Identity Register has a Fred Whitby born 1890 living in Salford CB. He might be worth having a look at.
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Could be. Nobody seems sure when Fred was born. The only Fred Whitby born in Cheshire was in 1893. In 1901 census he was 6 years old (1894/5), on his marriage in Sept 1912 he was 21 (birth reg June/July/ Aug qtr so 1891. The only possible death is the one in March qtr 1948 (1892).
His marriage certificate says Frederick though he signs (not his mark) as Fred so must have had some education.
brother Isaac was the one born in 1890, And I can't find him after 1901 either yet he was alive in 1918
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Gibel - thanks very much for the suggestion, will have a look.
lancsann - Fred was born 12 August 1892, baptised 9 December 1903 at St Clements, Ordsall (Lancs OPC). I agree with the death details too. Also, I have been unable to ascertain the whereabouts of Fred's brother Isaac Whitby during the dates you mention. I will keep looking.
Thanks v much for your help though. Pip.
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lancsann - Fred was born 12 August 1892, baptised 9 December 1903 at St Clements, Ordsall (Lancs OPC). I agree with the death details too. Also, I have been unable to ascertain the whereabouts of Fred's brother Isaac Whitby during the dates you mention. I will keep looking.
Thanks v much for your help though. Pip.
I wonder if that is another case of parents giving wrong yob. Did you get the year from the baptism record or have you a birth cert. Freebmd & cheshirebmd both have the registration in 1893. 12th August would fit with the reg qtr in 1893
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Yes it could well be that the parents gave the wrong yob, That seems to happen a lot in this part of the family. The dob is from Fred's baptism record, as I don't have his BC yet. But as you say, it does give 1893 on both Cheshire and FreeBMD. Pip.
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I wonder if Fred was imprisoned somewhere and the family disowned him. They stae they have only had 4 children and only 1 still living (William) whom they went to live with. They in fact had 6 children
There is also Elizabeth baptised 9th October 1875. There is a birth and death registration too.
I can't see a baptism for William but the others seem to have been baptised quite early which makes the late baptism for Fred seem unusual for this family.
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There is also Elizabeth baptised 9th October 1875. There is a birth and death registration too.
I can't see a baptism for William but the others seem to have been baptised quite early which makes the late baptism for Fred seem unusual for this family.
I wonder if Fred was missed being baptised because they may have moved from Weston Point to Salford about the time of his birth? If they were a church going family 1903 would possibly be the time for Fred's confirmation and would need to have been baptised at some point in his life before that
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Yes, I thought that too but then if they were churchgoers, you would think the Baptism would be earlier.
Most likely that was the reason though.
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Thank you both for your help, I am amazed. I didn't have a clue that there was an Elizabeth b 1875. Now I am wondering what else I have got missing/wrong in my tree!
I know that James and Elizabeth moved to Salford sometime between 1891 and 1901. I have always thought that the reason was because they had a major tragedy which was around 1890. Elizabeth's mum and dad drowned in the ship canal in Runcorn. Neither could swim. It was thought that the mother slipped and fell in and her husband tried to save her because they were found the next day with him holding onto her neck scarf. His other hand had dirt and mud on it so it was thought he had tried to claw his way back up. So maybe their daughter Elizabeth was so distraught that they had to move away and Fred's baptism was put aside.
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What a sad happening - certainly could be a challenge to faith.
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A sad story. Maybe they moved away from the canal for fear that the same might happen to the children