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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: jimmain on Friday 15 July 16 23:04 BST (UK)
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I have been researching David Shanks/ Mary Scott who married 7Oct 1862, New Monkland. The marriage record states that David’s parents were David Shanks/ Agnes Shanks, and that Mary’s parents were William Scott/ Mary Dunn.
David Shanks/ Mary Scott had the following children in New Monkland: Mary Dunn Shanks 1863; William Main Shanks 1864; David Main Shanks 1865; David Main Shanks 1867; Isabella Scott Shanks 1868; John Scott Main Shanks 1869; Thomas Main Shanks 1871; Alexander 1873.
My interest in this couple relates to the use of MAIN in the naming of several of their children.
The likeliest possibility is that Agnes was the daughter of David Shanks/ Janet Main, but I have not been able to prove this.
I would appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to shed some light on this.
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Hi
David Shanks/ Agnes Shanks,
I think you mean Agnes Main
When was David jnr born and where?
Have you checked the 1841/51 for David & Agnes?
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There is a death on SP for a David Shanks 1856 New Monkland with mother's maiden name Main
I haven't checked the age for that David but looks good.
Annie
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How old were David Shanks & Mary Scott when they married?
Have you found them on 1871 with their respective places of birth with approx. birth yrs.
Annie
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1881 shows David as b 1831 New Monkland occ farmer
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FS has this record
David Shanks
Christening Date 09 May 1830
Christening Place , NEW MONKLAND, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 08 Apr 1830
Father's Name Robert Shanks
Mother's Name Agnes Hay
I can't see an 1841 entry for a David Shanks b 1830/31 with parents David & Agnes. There is an entry for an 11yr old with an Agnes Shanks aged 50 and Agnes Downey 85 in New Monkland
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There are 2 Shanks/Main marriages on FS - 1828 and 1818 - have you looked for any connection?
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1841 ?
David Shanks 40 Head
Spouse Agnes B Shanks
born New Monkland, lanarksh
Registration Number 502
Registration district Rosneath
Civil Parish Rosneath
County Dumbartonshire
Address Manse Craigrowniee
Occupation Min Of Craigrownie Park
ED 4
Household schedule number 101
LINE 4
Roll CSSCT1871_88
Household Members:
David Shanks 40
Agnes B Shanks 35
Edwin A Shanks 11 Month
Elizabeth Robb 21
What was father's occupation on marriage?
Annie
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Jim
1. Does the 1862 marriage certificate of David Shanks to Mary Scott name his mother as Agnes Shanks MS Main, Agnes Shanks MS Shanks or just Agnes Shanks?
2. Does the 1862 marriage certificate of David Shanks to Mary Scott say that his mother Agnes was deceased?
3. Where was David Shanks' residence according to the 1862 marriage certificate?
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There is a death on SP for a David Shanks 1856 New Monkland with mother's maiden name Main
I haven't checked the age for that David but looks good.
Well, Jim, better look at that one, because if he is the son of David Shanks and Janet Main he can't have got married in 1862. So you might be able to disprove that theory.
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1841 ?
David Shanks 40 Head
Civil Parish Rosneath
Address Manse Craigrowniee
Occupation Min Of Craigrownie
According to Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae, David Shanks, Minister of Craigrownie, was born in Airdrie on 8 April 1828, son of Robert Shanks and Agnes Hay, and he became Minister there in 1854, so that census cannot be 1841 - must be 1871. He married Agnes Bowie and died in 1887. So he is a red herring as far as Jim's query is concerned.
This is the David listed with his mother Agnes, 50, and 5 siblings in Watston, New Monkland. In 1851 he is still in the same place (spelled Walston in the FreeCEN transcription), aged 20, and described as a student of divinity, with widowed mother Agnes, 60, and three siblings. So those two census sightings can also be discounted.
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Besides the son of Robert Shanks and Agnes Hay, who can be discounted, there is one other David Shanks of roughly the right age in New Monkland in the 1841 census. This is the 12-year-old male servant in the household of Thomas Shanks, farmer, 23, at Drumshangie. In 1851 he is still there, aged 22, and described as the nephew of 37-year-old Thomas Shanks.
In 1881 Thomas was still in Drumshangie, a farmer aged 73 and born in Cadder. It might be instructive to get his death certificate and see who his parents were, and then see if they had a son David or a daughter Agnes?
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1841 ?
David Shanks 40 Head
Civil Parish Rosneath
Address Manse Craigrowniee
Occupation Min Of Craigrownie
Forfarian......
Thanks for pointing out my error as I had 2 census' open at the same time but have copied the wrong one....the post I made actually says 1871 at the bottom which I didn't notice when I copied it ::)
1841 ?
Address Manse Craigrowniee
Occupation Min Of Craigrownie Park
ED 4
Household schedule number 101
LINE 4
Roll CSSCT1871_88
Annie
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This thread is old but I too am trying to find the David Shanks (nephew of Thomas Shanks) who was living at Drumshangie in 1841 and 1851.
I haven’t been able to find out who Thomas’ parents were - whoever recorded his death recorded Thomas’ wife’s mother as his (Ann Jack). As for the father who is recorded on his death record it is given as Thomas Shanks but this could have been a guess if the informant was unsure.
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whoever recorded his death recorded Thomas’ wife’s mother as his (Ann Jack). As for the father who is recorded on his death record it is given as Thomas Shanks but this could have been a guess if the informant was unsure.
Who was the informant & what was their relationship or other given as?
Annie
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Would it not be best to continue on your newer post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=816096.0
Monica
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Update to this thread: David Shanks (m. Mary Scott 1862) seems to be the nephew of Thomas Shanks, as listed on the census records. Another confirmation for this would be that on his marriage to Mary Scott, he is residing at Blackrigg and a farmer. I have the Will record of Jean Shanks, Thomas Shanks' sister, so could be David's aunt. Both David and Jean lived in the same household at Blackrigg/Blackridge. David Shanks is mentioned in her will, sometimes by "David Shanks, or Main" and so is Thomas Shanks, of Drumshangie her brother.
if David is the nephew of Thomas and Jean, he must be the grandson of David Shanks and Jean Thomson via one of his parents if they both had the surname Shanks as these are the parents of Thomas and Jean Shanks.
I'd be very interested to see if anyone has since found information relating to David's parents or where the Main name came from.
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I have the Will record of Jean Shanks, Thomas Shanks' sister, so could be David's aunt. Both David and Jean lived in the same household at Blackrigg/Blackridge. David Shanks is mentioned in her will, sometimes by "David Shanks, or Main" and so is Thomas Shanks, of Drumshangie her brother.
I'd be very interested to see if anyone has since found information relating to David's parents or where the Main name came from.
Is there a relationship to Jean mentioned regarding 'David Shanks, or Main'?
The use of 2 surnames may imply he was illegitimate?
Annie
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Is there a relationship to Jean mentioned regarding 'David Shanks, or Main'?
The use of 2 surnames may imply he was illegitimate?
Annie
[/quote]
No mention of a relationship to Jean but I’m almost certain it will be her nephew, given that the age and name matches with the nephew of her brother Thomas at Drumshangie. David’s disappearance from the census at Drumshangie and appearance at Blackridge also seems to confirm this. Her will and inventory just seem to say that the two resided together and that he was a farmer. No mention of illegitimacy either when he marries Mary Scott in 1862...
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No mention of illegitimacy either when he marries Mary Scott in 1862...
Not every illegitimate child was recorded as such on marriage, it seems to depend on the Priest/Vicar, the parish, no set rule.
Many illegitimate children made up names for fathers on their marriage to hide the shame.
Annie
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1841 ?
David Shanks 40 Head
Civil Parish Rosneath
Address Manse Craigrowniee
Occupation Min Of Craigrownie
According to Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae, David Shanks, Minister of Craigrownie, was born in Airdrie on 8 April 1828, son of Robert Shanks and Agnes Hay, and he became Minister there in 1854, so that census cannot be 1841 - must be 1871. He married Agnes Bowie and died in 1887. So he is a red herring as far as Jim's query is concerned.
This is the David listed with his mother Agnes, 50, and 5 siblings in Watston, New Monkland. In 1851 he is still in the same place (spelled Walston in the FreeCEN transcription), aged 20, and described as a student of divinity, with widowed mother Agnes, 60, and three siblings. So those two census sightings can also be discounted.
Where can I find the information relating to David Shanks from Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae? I have his birth date as 8 Apr 1830. He was the youngest brother of my 3x great grandfather Robert Shanks (1808-1888) but I can’t find him in the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae records on Ancestry.
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https://archive.org/details/fastiecclesiasco03scotuoft/page/n345/mode/2up?view=theater&q=Shanks
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Where can I find the information relating to David Shanks from Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae?
Forget about Ancestry.
By far the best place to look up any Presbyterian minister is via https://www.ecclegen.com/ which started out as an index to Free Kirk ministers but now includes all references to ministers in Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae as well. It's much easier to find the one you want because they're all indexed with links to their articles in FES.
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But mine is quicker to get to the same page ;D
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But mine is quicker to get to the same page ;D
Yes, your link is quicker if you are just going for David Shanks, but in general it's far easier to access FES articles via the Ecclegen web site than via a digitised version of FES because it's indexed with links.
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For anyone interested in David Shanks and his wife Mary Scott I have found some more information on David and his parents.
It seems most likely that David Shanks was the son of William Main and Agnes Shanks.
His death record which was registered in 1892 by his son records him as 'David Main, known as David Shanks, son of William Main and Agnes Shanks'. This lines up with the name he gave his first born son of William Main Shanks in 1864.
His parents William Main & Agnes Shanks seem to have married in 1828 in New Monkland. There is also a 'Decreet of Declarator' record for William Main and Agnes Shanks from 1833, I have only come across the index for this on the Scottish Indexes website, I haven't been able to view the original record so I'm not sure what information it may contain.
David becomes the farmer at Blackrigg or Blackridge Farm (Clarkston, New Monkland) which was somewhere near Wester Moffat, sometime following the death of his unmarried aunt Jean Shanks in 1860. Prior to this he was at Drumshangie Farm with his uncle Thomas Shanks & family.
Thomas Shanks and Jean Shanks were both the children of David Shanks and Jean Thomson, so David's mother Agnes Shanks must also have been the child of David Shanks and Jean Thomson.
His aunt Jean Shanks worked as a servant at Wester Moffat and appears there in the 1841 and 1851 Censuses. Interestingly, in 1841 with Jean there is an Agnes Shanks also recorded at Wester Moffat. I presume this may have been David's mother (perhaps her husband William Main had died by this date?) but I haven't been able to trace her after 1841.
So it looks as though David was unsure of his true parentage when he married in 1862, hence why he states his parents names as 'David Shanks & Agnes Shanks' rather than William Main and Agnes Shanks. Perhaps he only found out his true parentage after marriage? This seems to be most likely as his children knew his parents as William Main and Agnes Shanks and he must've known this too by 1864 when he named his first son William Main Shanks.
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David becomes the farmer at Blackrigg or Blackridge Farm (Clarkston, New Monkland) which was somewhere near Wester Moffat
David Shanks, farmer, 42, is in the 1871 census at Blackridge, New Monkland with wife Mary S Shanks and five children. In 1881 they are at Edin (i.e. Edinburgh) Road, Clarkston, New Monkland, and in 1891 at Blackridge Farm, New Monkland.
Blackrigg/Blackridge in the parish of New Monkland is much nearer to Wattston than to Clarkston. See https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.6&lat=55.90629&lon=-3.96717&layers=257&b=1
There is also a Blackrig(g)/Blackridge in the parish of Shotts https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.3&lat=55.84591&lon=-3.90352&layers=257&b=1 which is marginally closer to Wester Moffat and could reasonably be described as 'near Wester Moffat'.
Neither could reasonably be described as on the Edinburgh Road, Clarkston.
See the attached map.
To work out which Blackrig(g)/Blackridge they were in it will be necessary to scroll through either the 1871 or 1891 census, note down the names of the places in the same enumeration district, and compare them with the old maps.
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Thanks Forfarian however the Blackrigg in question is definitely in Clarkston, near Wester Moffat. It appears on Roy’s Map of the Lowlands, immediately to the west of ‘Moffat’ and ‘Brownyside’.
It doesn’t appear to be marked on any of the Ordnance Survey maps. However, the 1921 Census for Blackrigg Farm places it near Towers Road. The Valuation Rolls and Death Record of David’s youngest son Alexander Shanks in 1921 and his wife Christina (nee. Forrest) in 1923 record it as ‘Blackrigg Farm, Forrest Street’. So it looks as though there were at least two farms called Blackrigg in the parish of New Monkland. This Blackrigg Farm being in Clarkston and distinct from the other Blackrigg in New Monkland near Wattston. It also isn’t the Blackrigg in the parish of Shotts.
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So it looks as though there were at least two farms called Blackrigg in the parish of New Monkland.
Evidently so.
They may originally have been 'Blackrigg of xxxx' and 'Blackrigg of yyyy' though I'm not going to speculate about what xxx and yyyy might have been.
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Hi samalexander
Interesting connection in the history of the farm to Clarkson Football Club:
...1880–82: Blackrigg Farm, a "spacious" ground 2 minutes from the station,[26] and a few hundred yards to the south of the village.[27] Blackrigg Farm hosted the Lanarkshire Cup final in 1881...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarkston_F.C.#cite_note-28
Monica
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There are also 2 Wester Moffat's,one in New Monkland and one in Shotts, either side of North Calder Water.
Lanarkshire OS Name Books, 1858-1861
BLACKRIG Blackrigg
Blackrigg
Blackrigg
Blackrig Neil Holmwood
James Monteith
James Birnie Occupier
Adopted [???] 003.14 Two dwelling houses so called the property of Mr James Begg occupied by John Birnie & others.