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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: johnmac123 on Tuesday 02 August 16 23:36 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know the meaning of the word "ap" on a baptism record written in latin?
e.g. the following is for a baptism record for an Edward Lewis
Edwardi filius Edwardi ap Robert Lewis & Sara ap Hugh ap Evan.
Thanks
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Looks like a mix of Latin and Welsh. "ap" simply indicates a patronym.
I have also seen it written as "up" on a Monmouthshire toombstone.
In the examples the parent's names have been written with their Welsh patronyms but the Latin filius has been used to indicate the relationship to the child being baptised.
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In Welsh, 'ap' refers to 'son of' so ap in this context would mean:
..... Edward son of Robert Lewis & ...
It goes on to say .... Sara ap Hugh ap Evan which means 'son of Hugh son of Evan' but if Sara is female it should be 'ferch (daughter of) Hugh ap Evan'.
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I think Sara is the wife of Robert, he is the son of Hugh
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The use of 'ap' in Welsh to show paternity goes back a long way, predating the use of surnames. With time 'ap' got stuck to some forenames, leading to Welsh 'surnames' as Penry, Price, Powell and Probert. I guess Bevan and Bowen derived in the same way. That could only happen with names starting with a vowel or a soft consonant: not with ap Tomos or ap Gwilym.
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Thanks everyone, that will help take my family research further back :)
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Considering the use of English spellings for Hugh / Huw and Evan / Efan I suspect that the person filling in the register may simply have asked the lady for her father's name and wrote "ap" by mistake.
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Does anyone know the meaning of the word "ap" on a baptism record written in latin?
e.g. the following is for a baptism record for an Edward Lewis
Edwardi filius Edwardi ap Robert Lewis & Sara ap Hugh ap Evan.
Thanks
What year was this please?
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It was 10 Apr 1671 in Llanasa, Edvardus Lewis, it's on the Findmypast website.
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Do bear in mind that a lot of the ministers in Wales were English and that their Welsh was often shocking, if not non-existent.
There are, indeed, stories of parishes in which the Wlesh-speaking parishioners pleaded with their ministers to preach in English, not Welsh, as they found it easier to understand ... which may of course be apocryphal, but even if they are their very existence surely evidences a very real and widespread problem with English-speaking ministers being presented to Welsh livings.
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Still to this day, in Wales, there are people with names such as Gareth ap Williams.