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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: graceb063 on Thursday 04 August 16 09:01 BST (UK)
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Looking for birth records for Mary Kelly born 1830. 1851 and 1861 census has her as born in Glasgow, Lanarkshire. Her death record from Massachusetts has her parents as James and Maria Kelly.
I have searched Scotlands people and there is not record of her birth around that time. Any suggestions where to look to get confirmation.
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Did you check the Catholic records on SP as well as the Church of Scotland parish registers?
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Is she with her parents on 1851 census?
Have you traced her mother's death to get her maiden name?
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What year did she die ? and was she married ?
Rosie
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Thank you for the replies.
GR2, Hadn't thought of searching Catholic records, first time Catholic has come up in the family. Thanks for the tip.
Found a baptism record for Mary born to James and Mary not Maria 1829. Good chance this is her.
Santi, she was married in 1849 she is listed on 1851 with her husband Thomas. The baptism lists her maiden name as Barly.
After all this time all it took was checking Catholic records.
Thank you
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Rosie yes she was married and she died 1866 age 36 in Massachusetts. Such a sad short life she had.
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Further verification is required
The correct baptism may not have survived
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Hi is this her marriage Mary Kelly to Thomas Black 31 December 1849 Neilston Renfrewshire
Also a death Mary Black b 1830 Scotland died 10 September 1866 Lowell Massachusetts age 36
Father James mother Maria ....Is this the same person
Rosie
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Following on from this couple is this your Mary in the 1851 census address Crofthead Neilston
Thomas Black age 22 born Ireland about 1829
Mary Black age 21 born Glasgow about 1830
William Black 5 months birth registration for William 6 October 1850 baptism 3 November 1850 Neilston Renfrewshire father Thoams Black Mother Mary Kelly
1861 address Renfrew Road Byrees Land Govan
Thomas 31,Mary 30 ,William 10,James 5
Rosie
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Yes Rosie that is my Mary.
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Including this here to compare the other writing in case someone can make out the name of the Mother, Mary ?????
Barly, Baily?
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Grace, did you mean to add the image to this thread or your other thread?
Just a question. Do you know what occupation Mary's father James had? Looking at the 1841 Scottish census there is a family in Glasgow with father James who is a Tailor, and daughter Mary born about 1830, but the mother looks to be Ann rathmer than Maria. Probably not your family, but the only one with a father James.
Presumably you have searched for Mary (possibly at home) with parents in 1841?
I'm guessing it probably won't be long before your Kellys lead you to Ireland. ;)
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I've had a look at the OPRs for births between 1825 and 1835 in Glasgow, with child's forename blank, and father's name James. There are several James Kellys. Their wives are:
Margaret Maxwell
Margaret McGeachie
Jean Craig
Margaret Fraser
Ann Murdock Johnston
Helen Arbuckle
Bridget Alexander
Ann Lindsay
I realise nine of these are (probably) your James but just so you can keep track of other families in the area,
CPR baptisms at Glasgow St Andrew between 1825 and 1835 show no births for father James and mother Maria, and two births for father James, mother Mary - the one you already have in 1829 with mmn Barly, and one in 11-2-1827 for a George, father James, mother Mary Baily. There may be more if you extend the search years.
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Not sure where I should have added the image, which is the best thread? Im still a beginner.
I have seen that 1841 census months ago then dismissed it because of name Ann. I just cant seem to find anything definate to confirm her correct parents and birth.
With so many Kelly's its hard to get the correct person.
No clue at all about James. Of all the family research I have done this is the hardest of them all.
I was hoping to find Marys return of death cert from Boston like the 1 I have for her husband Thomas and it has parents full names but all I have so far is the vital records that lists all the deaths for that year.
Interesting about George. Thats what I will do next extend the search years to find more siblings and go from there.
Thank you
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I wondered about this census record 1841 address Crofthead Neilston Renfrewshire this was the area she was in and her husband Thomas ....also her place of marriage but she is not with not with a James or a Mary ?
Margaret Kelly age 40 ( This 3 all born Ireland )
Sarah Kelly age 45
John Kelly age 15
Mary Kelly age 11 born Renfrewshire
Mary Benny age 8 born Renfrewshire
Do you have a copy of the OPR Marriage Record to see if it mentions anything sometimes you are lucky it might give the name of the house they were married from
Rosie
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The first record I have of them in Crofthead is 1851 census.
Mary Black
Age 21
Estimated Birth Year abt 1830
Relationship Wife
Gender Female
Where born Glasgow, Lanark
Parish Number 572
Civil parish Neilston
Town Crofthead
County Renfrewshire
Address Crofthead
Marriage record only states Neilston Manse.
I did widen the search years for births and there are 5 others I might get a lead from surname of mother spelt different ways Barly,Baly and Bailee.
Im at a loss where to look next. I will give these possible children a look and see if I come up with anything.
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Those maiden surnames look similar enough to be the same mother. Worth investigating in case it helps find them in a family group in the census, or if you can find a sibling for Mary, maybe their birth marriage or death record will help.
I couldn't see a Catholic marriage for James and Mary Baily, but it would be worth others checking in case I missed something.
I couldn't see an obvious George Kelly bc 1827 in the 1841 census. Once again, I would advise you checking for yourself in case I missed him. I thought George might be an easier name to find than Mary. A lot of those Kellys have the same forenames which makes the search even harder.
As they are Catholic, maybe they're Irish and maybe married in Ireland .... :-\
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I did just come across another death index for Mary Black and lists her parents as James and Marian.
Back to the drawing board and start with Marian. Whoever put in Maria simply left of the n.
Thank you for all the help. I need to step away for a bit and come back fresh again tomorrow. Start the search all over again. Might also look at Ireland for James.
How common was it for Catholics and Presbyterian?
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Yes did notice the other death registration with the mother as Marion ...Did see this birth for a Mary Berry Black 2 October 1858 Govan father Thomas Black mother Mary Kelly ...So wonder if Berry was her mother's maiden name ....But still not seeing a marriage for a Berry to Kelly ??? ???
Rosie
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Not sure but she may have been named after the Mary Berry who was a lodger on the 1851 census.
Also an Isabella Berry on the same census record. Aged 17 and 18 and if Mary was only 20 or 21 at the time these girls could be sisters. Another avenue to search.
Just checked and both those girls are listed as born in Ireland yet Mary Kelly is Glasgow Lanark. So maybe not related.
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I have seen that 1841 census months ago then dismissed it because of name Ann. I just cant seem to find anything definate to confirm her correct parents and birth.
Grace, just adding this link to a site which is one of the best I think for first name variants, with a strong Scottish bias ;)
For Marian, you can see how mother could go by the names of also Ann or Mary www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Marian.html
Monica
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Just in case there is connection to the entry you mentioned in 1841, Ruskie, showing below:
James Kelly 28 tailor
Ann Kelly 30
Mary Kelly 11
Thomas Dollan 17 b. Ireland
Address: Graeme St, Glasgow (St John's area)
This is a possible 1851 entry for that household:
James Kelly 38 Tailor & Clothier b Glasgow
Robert Kelly 9
Elisabeth Kelly 4
Ann Kelly 7
Mary Reside 24 House Servant
Mary Younger 21 House Servant
Address: Graeme St, Glasgow (St John's area)
No idea if connected, but at least the link to 1851 is there and we know where they are that year!
Monica
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Though I am aware of some of the name variations/nicknames in Scotland I didn't think that Marian may also be Ann, so thanks for pointing that out Monica.
In my reply at #12 there are two Anns who marry James Kellys so I thought that James Kelly the Tailor may be with one of those women.
In the 41 and 51 censuses there is no George b 1827 (he could have died, though I couldn't see a death/burial on SP). Grace has found more births/baptisms with Baily as mmn, so it would be worth seeing if any of them tally up to the extra children in the 1851 census.
Even if none of these are the correct family, it is useful to sort though them even if just to eliminate them.
Added: I was curious about George 1827 as I thought it was not such a common name in Scotland. I couldn't seem to find him anywhere in Scotland, so I headed to England - still couldn't find him, but there are numerous James Kellys. ::) That's probably a can of worms you don't want to open. ;D