RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: tcwaters on Sunday 23 October 16 04:49 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I am trying to trace my ancestors who moved from the Channel Islands to Waimate, Canterbury, New Zealand around 1874. My great great grandfather, John Charles Lorraway passed away in New Zealand in 1881 and the family then immigrated to Mt Morgan (Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia. I am currently trying to find the ship they would have come to Australia in. I am guessing they moved in 1882 and the following people would have been on board the ship - Mary Jane Lorraway (mother), and the children were John Charles, William, Edward, Alice (but I don't think Alice came to Australia, I think she stayed in Waimate. Any help would be greatly appreciated. It is very difficult with the name change. Mary Jane's maiden name was Hutchins. She married John Charles Snr in Jersey, Channel Islands.
Thanks
Toni
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Welcome to Rootschat Toni......
I wonder if the following is the marriage of Alice?
1906/383 Mabel Alice Mary Le Ruez Leo Sylvester Leahy
Minniehaha.
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Thank you. It sounds like this would be a daughter of one of the children as this is my Grandfather's age.
Thank you. I will investigate it.
Toni
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Not having any luck finding this death:
"John Charles Lorraway passed away in New Zealand in 1881"
Minniehaha.
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Would this be the death of Alice?
1944/27650 Le Ruez Alice Maude 75Y
Minniehaha.
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Yes that is Alice's death. I have had the same problem trying to find his death. I couldn't find anything in New Zealand and nothing in Australia however the information I have says he died on 12th November 1881 in Owate Suth Island NZ. This is not sourced however.
Thanks
Toni
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Here is the death notice. However I'm not sure this is "your" Alice?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19441204.2.3.3?query=le%20ruez
Marriage of this Alice......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19040804.2.59?query=le%20ruez
Are you able to provide us with birth years for the children you have listed in your first post?
Minniehaha.
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Hello...
Welcome to Rootschat :)
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The information I have says John Charles LORRAWAY died on 12th November 1881 in Owate, South Island, NZ
Your informant may have been confused by the following death...
1882/1809 - LANAWAY, John Sydney - 22Y - d.o.d 12 Nov 1881
John Sydney LANAWAY drowned in the Catlin's River, in the South Island. The Catlins and Owake (modern name Owaka) seemed to be interchangeable names at the time.
http://tinyurl.com/zept8m7 (http://tinyurl.com/zept8m7)
(Or possibly "The Catlins" refers to the area and Owake/Owaka refers to a settlement in the area. I get a bit confused south of Christchurch :-)
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Some more name variations from the BDM NZ website...
Births:
1878/17735 - LEURAWAY, George - mother:Mary father:John
1880/15961 - LERAWAY, Charles Henry - mother:Mary Jane father:John
Deaths:
1880/3654 - LERAWAY, Charles Henry - Age at death: 18 days
Regards
Beg
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The Capricornian 22 Oct 1910 p17
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/68892142?
...In Mem for Mary LORRAWAY d. 1909......
QLD BDM deaths
1923 / C1988 LORRAWAY William parents John LORRAWAY / Mary Jane HUTCHINS
1926 / C3526 LORRAWAY John Charles parents John LORRAWAY / Mary HUTCHINS
1942 / C3663 MANN Alice Maud Mary parents John LORRAWAY / Mary Jane HUTCHINGS
1955 / C5295 LORRAWAY George parents John LORRAWAY / Mary HUTCHINS
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Yes, Owaka is indeed a town within the Catlins area which straddles the border between Otago and Southland where it meets the southern coast.
Alan
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Funeral notice (1942) for Alice Maud Mary MANN..........
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/56125320?searchTerm=alice%20maud%20mann&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom=1942-01-01|||dateTo=1942-12-31|||l-advstate=Queensland|||l-advcategory=Family+Notices|||sortby
Minniehaha.
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Marriage for Alice Maud Lorraway [Queensland BDM]
1925 C3662 Alice Maud Lorraway John Joseph Smith
Minniehaha.
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The Capricornian 17 Oct 1914 p17
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69142975?
....In Mem for Mary Jane LORRAWAY d. 1909......
loving daughter and son and daughter-in-law and son-in-law, G. and E. Lorraway and E. and P. Neilsen.
What is the NEILSEN connection?
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In Memoriam notice for a John Charles Lorraway who died in 1926.........
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114414111?searchTerm=john%20charles%20lorraway&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom|||dateTo|||sortby
Death registration [Queensland]
1926 C3526 John Charles Lorraway John Lorraway Mary Hutchins
Minniehaha.
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Hello Toni,
Can you please tell us what information you have relating to the family arriving in Waimate.......
Minniehaha.
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Since 1860 until the 2016 cut off at NZ BDM, there have been no registrations of births, deaths or marriages for the name of Lorraway.
There is however, one entry in the NZ White pages for this name....
https://whitepages.co.nz/white-all/lorraway/new-zealand/
Minniehaha.
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Thank you. Both of these replies are definitely my family. The death notice doesn't seem to be John as his middle name was Charles. The name is a difficult one being French.
Thank you so much.
Toni
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The only information I have about the family arriving in NZ are:
1st: I have the death certificate of John Charles Jnr and George. Both say they were born in Waimate NZ. I have also found a shipping record that says they arrived in Lyttleton on the ship 3 Apelles 6 May 1874. I found this on a Jersey Wiki and in a Southern NZ newspaper. Te next thing I know they are living in Mt Morgan QLD Australia but no mention of John Charles Senior. Just Mary Jane, the boys and Alice so John Charles has disappeared.
Thanks
Toni
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The death notice doesn't seem to be John as his middle name was Charles.
Hi again...
The death notice to which I linked in reply#7 is, as you say, definitely not for your man John Charles LORRAWAY.
What I was suggesting is that the following information you gave earlier, namely ...
the information I have says he died on 12th November 1881 in Owate Suth Island NZ
... is wrong.
What is your source that says that John Charles senior died in NZ.
For what it's worth, the nearest NZ death I can come up with is John Charles RAY who died 21 Sep 1884, aged 35 years.
Not sure where he died or where he is buried. May need to check the Deaths fiche.
Coroner, Christchurch - Date: 2 October 1884 Subject: Inquest proceedings on John Charles Ray
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24476343 (https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24476343)
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Do you know of any specific connection that the family had with Mt Morgan prior to their arrival. Other family members already living there maybe.
And out of curiosity, would the family have spoken English or French when living in Jersey.
And to answer your original question, as I understand it back in the 1880's there were very few records kept when travelling between Australia and NZ so the likelihood of your finding a record of the family travelling from Waimate to Queensland is very small.
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The Apelles passenger list gives two more spellings of the surname. LERONET and LEARY.
http://tinyurl.com/gvj8ppv (http://tinyurl.com/gvj8ppv)
The word in the column is Timaru. Timaru is a town in the Waimate district.
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Yes, Owaka is indeed a town within the Catlins area
Thanks Alan :)
Regards
Beg
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I've looked through the digitised electoral rolls on ancestry. The name Lorraway does not make an appearance until 1969 and even then in Auckland. Le Ruez and Rouet are absent.
Beg the relationship between Timaru and Waimate is the other way around, Waimate is a town in the Timaru district. There is however a settlement named Waimate (North) in Northland but given the passenger list is a Canterbury one I suspect that could be discounted. In addition i searched the on line cemetery database for the Waimate DC. There were no Lorraways or anything even close. Same result when i checked by date or just christian names. Nothing.
Alan
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PM sent with details of person also doing research on this family.....
Question:Can you please tell us how old the missing John Charles was when he died in New Zealand.
Minniehaha.
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Can you please tell us how old the missing John Charles was when he died in New Zealand
Hi Minnie...
The 1874 Apelles passenger list has him aged 29 so born c.1845
In 1881, his presumed year of death, he would have been 36-ish.
The John Charles RAY (RUEZ?) that I mentioned was 35 when he died in 1884.
Considering the multiple surname variations in this thread I'm quite comfortable with the RAY/RUEZ? informant giving an incorrect age at death :)
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A seven month old son called Francis is mentioned on the passenger list but not yet mentioned in this thread. Has anyone discovered his fate?
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Alan - thanks again for the correction. My South Island geography is sorely lacking. So much for "don't leave town till you've seen the country" :)
Regards
Beg
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Beg, don't worry about it. I'm still trying to figure out where this "Auckland" place is that we ceaselessly hear so much about.
Alan
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Just throwing this snippet from 'Papers Past' into the mix.........
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18850805.2.2.6?query=john%20charles%20ray
Minniehaha.
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The one and the same? Maybe?.......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WCT18750615.2.11?query=john%20charles%20ray
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ST18810718.2.9?query=john%20charles%20ray
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minnie...
Back to square one :-)
Regards
Beg
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".. the children were John Charles, William, Edward, Alice...."
Who is Edward, and where do you see him mentioned?
I think you said that you have this death certificate -
1955 / C5295 LORRAWAY George parents John LORRAWAY / Mary HUTCHINS
What does it have for residency history?
Do you have a death certificate for Mary LORRAWAY d. 1909. I think it would be useful to you.
Do you have marriage certificate for either -
George LORRAWAY m. 1899 or William LORRAWAY m. 1900.
The death certificates you have record information given at the end of life by an informant. A marriage certificate has self-reported information about bride and groom and would be useful to you.
From reply #12 -
....In Mem for Mary Jane LORRAWAY d. 1909......
loving daughter and son and daughter-in-law and son-in-law, G. and E. Lorraway and E. and P. Neilsen.
I think this is possibly the NEILSEN connection -
QLD BDM birth
1889 / C6485 HUTCHINS Eliza Jane parents HUTCHINS / Mary Jane HUTCHINS
QLD BDM marriage
1910 / C2361 HOCKING Eliza Jane m. NIELSEN Peter
QLD BDM death
1942 / C665 NEILSEN Eliza Jane parents HOCKING Charles / HUTCHINGS Mary Jane
Similarly, and possibly another daughter -
QLD BDM birth
1891 / C7184 HUTCHINGS Gertrude Ann parents HUTCHINGS / Mary Jane HUTCHINGS
QLD BDM marriage
1912 / C1885 HUTCHINGS Gertrude Ann m. WHARLEY William Arthur
QLD BDM death
1969 / C760 WHARLEY Gertrude Anne parents - / Mary Jane HUTCHINGS
You need to see the 1909 death certificate for Mary LORRAWAY.
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Hi Toni,
As far as I have researched, i am a descendant of John's son George Lorraway, who was my great Grandfather on my father's side. Recently i have learned of a family tree made by my grandmother, which I have not yet got. When I get access to this family tree (I am told it is extensive), I will send you a copy, possibly giving you more information on you relatives. For now I have a copy that I made, But it only goes up to John Snr.
From what you have said, learning that the Lorraway's had come from New Zealand before they came from the Channel Isles and eventually to Australia is amazing. When you said that they moved to Mount Morgan from New Zealand I was sure that it was them, as I was told by relatives that George moved from Mount Morgan to Mackay, where he had my grandfather Brian.
Currently I live in Mackay, Queensland
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The tree I posted above may have duplication errors, as it is difficult when the way they name their children Is all done by repetition.
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Hi Ethan,
Yes John Charles was William's brother. John Charles was born in Waimate New Zealand where as his brother William and sister Alice were born in Jersey, Channel Islands.
Their father was also John Charles or Jean Charles le Rouet. He was born in Jersey and married Mary Hutchings before immigrating to NZ. Mary then brought the boys and daughter Alice to Mt Morgan during the 1880's. The brothers were William, George, John Charles, Edward and Alice.
I think William may have been William Francis. William was my great grandfather. My grandfather was William John. My mum is Cleone who lives in Rockhampton. I have heard that all of the Lorraways in Aus are related and descendant of the le Rouets from Jersey, Channel Islands.
Would love to see your family tree when you get it.
Thanks for the reply,
Toni