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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Seaton Smithy on Thursday 15 December 16 23:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone - back again looking for some more of your wonderful assistance.
William Smith and Euphemia Laing died 20 days apart in Coull in 1835.
I have found the following children of William and Euphemia, all born in Leochel-Cushnie: George (1804), Arthur (1808), Francis (1810), Sarah (1812), Elspet (1814), Alexander (1817) and Samuel (1819).
I descend from George and so far have found some family details for both him and Arthur.
I believe William was born in Leochel-Cushnie in 1784.
I have not been able to locate a record for the birth of Euphemia or for the marriage of Euphemia and William.
Any assistance greatly appreciated as always.
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Not sure if this is of any help or not, but might be worth exploring.
Also can't find anything for Euphemia Laing, but there is a Francis Laing, farmer, in both the 1841 and 1851 censuses in Leochel-Cushnie. He died in 1855 (fortunately for us!) at the age of 83. Given one of Euphemia Laing and William Smith’s children was called Francis, it’s at least possible this Francis Laing is related to Euphemia Laing somehow - perhaps a brother?
His age at death is a little out with the age of 81 given in the 1851 census, but it puts his birth around 1770. According to the death registration, he was the son of William Laing, farmer, and Mary Fraser. There are two baptisms in Leochel-Cushnie in the right timeframe, both with father William Laing - one in 1769 and the second in 1771 - unfortunately, the mother is not named, but a look at the records on Scotland’s People may help to work out if this is actually the same family, and the first Francis died in infancy.
Francis Laing married one Isobel Harper (nee Adam) - who looks like she may have been the widow of an Alexander Harper. She must have died before 1841 (and certainly before 1855), but her children by her first marriage are with Francis Laing in both the 1841 and 1851 census. The death registration doesn’t suggest Francis had any children of his own with Isobel - his death was registered by his nephew, George Laing - who might also be worth exploring...
EDIT: Just found a marriage for Francis Laing and Isobel Adam in 1806 in Leochel-Cushnie - she married Alexander Harper in Leochel-Cushnie in 1792.
Ruth
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Thank you, Ruth. This is helpful.
The address recorded for the deaths of William and Euphemia is a croft called Loanhead of Corse which is still lived in today.
On the 1841 census there is a George Laing (b abt 1764), his wife Isobel (abt 1774), his son George (abt 1806, but abt 1802 on the 1851) and 3 minors are living at South Loanhead in Corse.
Scotlandspeople show George senior was born in Leochel Cushnie in 1764 to William Laing.
From someone else's research (not yet confirmed), children of William Laing & Mary Fraser of Leochel Cushnie were: William (1757), Peter (1761), George (1764), James (1767), Mary (1768), Francis (1769) and Francis (1771).
Scotlandspeople shows George Laing born 1802 in Leochel Cushnie to George Laing and Margaret Emslie who also have Peter in 1812.
There are children born to in Leochel Cushnie to George Laing and Isabel Emslie: John (1803), Martha (1805), Isabel (1807), Mary (1808), Elizabeth (1810), Martha (1814) and Charles (1816). There is also William Laing born to George Laing no mother shown in 1800.
Could Margaret and Isabel be the same person?
George Laing (1802) and his wife Elizabeth (maiden name may be Lawson) are living at South Loanhead in 1851 with infant daughter Elizabeth and stepson Alexander Copland.
On the 1861 there is a George Laing shown as born about 1812 with wife Elizabeth and daughter Elizabeth now 10 living at Loanhead with other children and a neice Isabel Laing born about 1825. It appears George dies at Loanhead in 1874.
The seems to be a connection with George Laing living at Loanhead and William Smith and Euphemia Laing dying there. Could Euphemia be the daughter of William (1757), Peter (1761), or possibly James (1767) Laing? I'll need to see what more I can find for them.
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George Laing (1802) and his wife Elizabeth (maiden name may be Lawson) are living at South Loanhead in 1851 with infant daughter Elizabeth and stepson Alexander Copland.
On the 1861 there is a George Laing shown as born about 1812 with wife Elizabeth and daughter Elizabeth now 10 living at Loanhead with other children and a neice Isabel Laing born about 1825. It appears George dies at Loanhead in 1874.
There's an MI for a George Laing in Leochel kirkyard, d. 2 Jun 1874 - Elizabeth Lawson is on the same MI, d. 2 Jan 1903. Elizabeth Lawson married William Copland on 21 Oct 1844 at Tough - which fits with her son Alexander appearing in the 1851 census as being born in Tough (although I can't see a baptism for him). There is a Laing/Lawson wedding showing in Leochel-Cushnie on 27 May 1849, although the couple's first names don't seem to have been recorded.
Elizabeth Lawson seems likely to be the daughter of James Lawson and Elizabeth Tytler, b. 19 Jun 1824. Her parents are also buried in Leochel kirkyard.
While we're on the subject of MIs, there is an MI in Coull kirkyard for a family of Laings, who might be connected to this story - four members of the same family, all died within two weeks: James Laing, 15 May 1836; Isabella Laing, 18 May 1836; Martha Laing, 24 May 1836; and Mary Laing, 31 May 1836 - there's also an Elizabeth Laing, d. 30 Jul 1832; James Laing, 23 Nov 1853; Helen Laing, 17 May 1879; and Jane Laing, 9 Oct 1892.
Ruth
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On the 1841 census there is a George Laing (b abt 1764), his wife Isobel (abt 1774), his son George (abt 1806, but abt 1802 on the 1851) and 3 minors are living at South Loanhead in Corse.
The originals of the available UK censuses never give a year of birth. They tell you the age people said they were on the day of the census.
In 1841 the census was taken on the night of 6/7 June, and the enumerator was supposed to round adults' ages down to the nearest 5 years.
George is down as 77, so if this is accurate it means he was born between 7 June 1763 and 6 June 1764. It should have been recorded as 75. Similarly with Isobel, ten years younger.
George, aged 35, would therefore have been born between 7 June 1801 and 6 June 1806. This is entirely compatible with his age being 49 in the 1851 census, when ages were not rounded down, indicating that he was born between 31 March 1801 and 30 March 1802.
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The originals of the available UK censuses never give a year of birth. They tell you the age people said they were on the day of the census.
Thanks, Forfarian. I accept everything you say about the census. I admit I was extrapolating which is why I wrote "abt". I find the rounding in the 1841 census to be inconsistent.
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There's an MI for a George Laing in Leochel kirkyard, d. 2 Jun 1874 - Elizabeth Lawson is on the same MI, d. 2 Jan 1903. Elizabeth Lawson married William Copland on 21 Oct 1844 at Tough - which fits with her son Alexander appearing in the 1851 census as being born in Tough (although I can't see a baptism for him). There is a Laing/Lawson wedding showing in Leochel-Cushnie on 27 May 1849, although the couple's first names don't seem to have been recorded.
Thanks again, Ruth.
I am finding a lot of conflicting information published about the mother(s) of William (1757), Peter (1761), George (1764), James (1767), Mary (1768), Francis (1769) and Francis (1771).
I may have to create a Laing tree over the Christmas break to try and get things straight.
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I am finding a lot of conflicting information published about the mother(s) of William (1757), Peter (1761), George (1764), James (1767), Mary (1768), Francis (1769) and Francis (1771).
Don't believe any of it unless and until you have proved it by viewing original documents. There are online trees that are meticulously researched and accurate in every detail. There are also trees that can best be described as wishful thinking.
(I found one today in my own family - a man with an ambiguous given name listed as a woman, with a husband called Elizabeth Jane! So of course the surnames of all their family are wrong.)
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I thought I may have found an interesting possibility in my search for Euphemia LAING.
In 1802 William Smith and Euphemia REID had a son named Peter in Leochel-Cushnie. This birth fits in with the pattern of births for William Smith and Euphemia LAING commencing 1804.
Unfortunately I can't find any more inforamtion about Euphemia REID other than the birth of Peter.
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Very interesting. Have you looked at the original record? What does it say? What are the names of the people listed just before and after this baptism?
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An excellent suggestion Forfarian.
The parents for the entry above are both named Thomson. I can't read the name of the father for the entry below but it starts with S* and clearly isn't Reid and the mother is Couts.
The interesting thing is that William Smith and Euphemia Reid are "in Lonhed of Corse". Loanhead of Corse is where William Smith and Euphemia Laing die in 1835. It looks to me that Euphemia Reid and Euphemia Laing could be the same person.
* EDIT: I've worked out it is Stephen as the same family appears above the 1804 record for William and Euphemia's son George.
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I now have the death record of Peter Smith who dies in 1883 in Leochel-Cushnie aged 80. His parents are listed as William Smith and Elspet Laing.
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I'm new to all this and have been working my way back to find the Smith in my family and have Francis Smith named in his illegitimate daughter's marriage register, deceased by 1875 but said to have been a journeying blacksmith during his life. Son of William and Euphemia, born Loanhead of Corse 1810. Family belief is that our Smiths were related to the Smiths of Inveravon/Drumin and I wonder if you have worked back and confirmed any of the clues hinted at above and subseqently found a connection with Inveravon (or indeed Kirkmichael) which would confirm this? Many thanks for any help you can give.
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Hi Periwinkled
Thanks for getting in touch. Your post is the first information I have for Francis other than his baptism.
When you say "journeying" blacksmith, do you mean "journeyman" blacksmith? A journeyman blacksmith was someone who had not finished his training and had not yet become a master blacksmith.
The only Francis Smith I can find of the right age who died before 1875 died in Old Machar, Aberdeen in 1871. I don't currently have any credits to check if this is the right man.
The earliest record I have found for William and Euphemia is the baptism of their son Peter in 1802. I will look into the Smiths of Inveravon, Drumin & Kirkmichael.
Are you able to share any more details of Francis' daughter? If you prefer to give the details privately you will need to make 2 more posts before we can send Personal Messages.
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When you say "journeying" blacksmith, do you mean "journeyman" blacksmith? A journeyman blacksmith was someone who had not finished his training and had not yet become a master blacksmith.
Not quite.
He had completed his apprenticeship so was a fully fledged blacksmith, and could seek employment anywhere he chose. 'Journeyman' is from the French word 'journée' meaning the length of a day; originally he would have been paid a wage on a daily basis.
Once he felt that he had gained enough experience he could then set himself up as a master and take on and train his own apprentices. In some trades a journeyman had to be approved by a guild before he could become a master, but I don't think that necessarily applied to blacksmiths in rural areas like Coull.
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Hi
Thank you for you reply. The Francis Smith who died 1871 was the son of Charles and Elizabeth and occupation ground officer at Rubislaw so not the same person. The peculiar thing is that although Francis Smith is named as the reputed father of my ancestor, and 'jour. Blacksmith' as profession (you are probably right about journeyman, not a term I was previously familiar with), my ancestor's father at baptism is listed as James Smith on a transcript of the birth entry - I have so far been unable to find a scan of the original entry. Let's do a couple more messages and I will PM you what I have and explain why I believe Euphemia's Francis is mine too.
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Not quite.
Thanks for the clarification, Forfarian!
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Here is a thread about Francis' younger brother Samuel Smith (1819) who migrated to the US: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784656
I am not sure what happened to their sister Elspet (1814) but her 5 sons all turn up in the US as boys, with 2 of them living with Samuel.
Another brother Alexander (1817) may also have gone to the US, possibly living with Samuel in 1860.
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Sorry for the delayed reply. Although Francis Smith is named as the reputed father of my ancestor there is enough conflict in the official documents which leads me to doubt the truth of this.
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No problems at all.
Have you or anyone in the family had a DNA test with Ancestry, FamilyTreeDNA or MyHeritage?
Apart from my sister, our uncle and myself, I have identified DNA matches with 4 other descendants of Francis' brother George. I have not identified a DNA match with a descendant of any of Francis and George's siblings.
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Interesting. I may investigate that as the known line trails out into presumed relatives but not clear if sisters, cousins or more distant.
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I appear to have found (stumbled across, actually) an earlier child for William & Euphemia.
In 1822 at old Machar, Robert Fiddes marries Margaret Smith.
When Margaret Fiddes also indexed as Margaret Smith dies in Aberdeen in 1866 age recorded as 67, her parents are recorded as William Smith, farmer in Leochel-Cushnie and Effie Laing (both deceased).
The 1851 census shows Margaret Fiddes wife of Robert as 53 and born in Leochel.
I have not found a baptism for Margaret Smith, but it seems to me that "Effie" Laing is likely to be Euphemia.
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Based on the possible reference to Euphemia Laing as "Effie" on the death registration for Margaret Fiddes nee Smith, I think a very good candidate for Euphemia is:
Ephie Laing, baptised 1774 in Tarland & Migvie, father George Laing.
There is a marriage of George Laing to Jean Ewan in Tarland & Migvie on 27 June 1773.
Other children for George Laing baptised in Tarland & Migvie appear to be John (1777), Christian (1779), Jean (1781) & William (1784)
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A plausible candidate for Euphemia's husband William appears to be:
William Smith, baptised 1771 in Tough, parents Peter Smith and Margaret Cocker.
Other children baptised in Tough to Peter Smith and Margaret Cocker I have found are Thomas (1767) and John (1774).
I have not found a marriage for Peter Smith and Margaret Cocker.
I am not sure how I would ever confirm this is the right William, and I still have not found a marriage for William Smith and Euphemia Laing.
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it seems to me that "Effie" Laing is likely to be Euphemia.
Yes. Effie is a standard contraction of Euphemia. so I'd say you are right.
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Hello I have just found out that my 2nd great grand-aunt, Margaret Smith married to Robert Fiddes was daughter to William Smith, farmer at Loanhead Leochel Cushnie and Effy Laing. It states it on her death certificate as she died 21 Nov 1866. Her sister was Elizabeth Smith who was married to Alexander Clerihue living in Tullynessle. Both these women had sons who joined the ministery, Alexander Clerihew born 27.Dec 1820 and John Fiddes born 25 Mar 1823. The Smith family were very religious and appeared to have been married or had children baptised at Old Machar but this is because there was a famous preacher Dr Kidd who was an evangelist who was a preacher at Gilcomston Chapel of Ease Old Machar district.
My second great grandfather was William Smith who died at Skene 30 Jul 1852. He was born in Leochel Cushnie and was 68 when he died. This puts his birth in 1784.He married Mary Milne at Old Machar in 1818. I think he is very closely related to Margaret and Elizabeth above. Margaret was born 1799. Elizabeth born 1781 puts her a bit too early.
I think William married to Euphemia may have been born 12 May 1771 to Peter Smith and Margaret Cocker.
I did find a Euphemia Laing born 31 Oct 1754 to Andrew Laing and Elizabeth Shewan but that seems too early.
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Hi mowhit.
I have only just seen your post.
William Smith and Euphemia Liang had a daughter named Elspet Smith born in Leochel-Cushnie in 1814. Elspet married James Dustan in two ceremonies in 1834, the first in Lumphanan and the second in Leochel-Cushnie. They had five sons. I am not certain what happened to Elspet, but her husband and sons arrived in the US before 1850.
Elspet is a form of Elizabeth and I would be surprised if William and Euphemia had one daughter named Elizabeth and one daughter named Elspet who both lived to adulthood.
Why do you think that the Elizabeth Smith who marries Andrew Clerihew is the sister of Margaret and therefore the daughter of William and Euphemia?
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I have not found a marriage for Peter Smith and Margaret Cocker.
Margaret Cocker married Patrick Smith in Tullynessle and Forbes in 1764. I understand that Patrick and Peter were interchangeable names for Gaelic speakers.
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I understand that Patrick and Peter were interchangeable names for Gaelic speakers.
Not only for Gaelic speakers.
See https://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=patrick
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Hello
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my query.
I think Loanhead of Corse is the key. It appears there are William (1771) and Euphemia living there and also William(1758) and Elizabeth Sutor/Soutar living there. It could be the two are related and may be cousins.
William and Elizabeth had 7 children. Charles 1779-1857, Elizabeth/Elspet 1781 who married Alexander Clerihue, William 1784 my likely great, great grandfather, Helen 1786-1814, John 1788 -1862, Barbara 1790, David 1798.
I have Elizabeth/Elspet's baptism. William Smith of Lonhead a daughter, Elizabeth 28th Oct 1781.
I understand that Elizabeth/Elspet are interchangeable like Patrick/Peter. On a census Elspet is wife to Alexander Clerihue in Tullynessle.
I now know that William and Euphemia had an Elspet born in 1814 and a Margaret born 1799. Margaret married Robert Fiddes.
I have a book Your Father and I by Isabella G MacLean which thought that Elizabeth 1781 and Margaret 1799 were sisters as their sons who became ministers were thought to be cousins. It is possible Margaret and Elizabeth were maybe cousins.
Did you know there were other Smiths living at Loanhead?
I was looking at the Drumin connection.
Katherine Stewart only daughter of Gordon Stuart married Reverend George Forbes of Leochel Cushnie and would have lived at Corse. Is it possible that a Smith came with her to Leochel?
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Not only for Gaelic speakers.
See https://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=patrick
Thanks, Forfarian.
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I have a book Your Father and I by Isabella G MacLean which thought that Elizabeth 1781 and Margaret 1799 were sisters as their sons who became ministers were thought to be cousins. It is possible Margaret and Elizabeth were maybe cousins.
Thanks for clarifying that, mowhit. I do think the author has made a leap there, perhaps because both of them had sons who became clergy, and perhaps because they both had a father named William Smith.
Unfortunately, the only thing I really know about Loanhead is that William (1771) and Euphemia died there within a fortnight of each other. I did find some records that showed there were people named Laing living there later and wondered if they were related Euphemia.
It may be that the two Williams were cousins. It would be terrific to find the connection.
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Hi mowhit
I have just seen your tree on Ancestry.
I see you have Patrick/Peter baptised as Peter Smith in 1734 in Leochel-Cushnie, father Alexander Smith.
I had been looking at a potential baptism as Patrick Smith in 1733 in Tough, father John Smith, as his sons Thomas, William and John were all born in Tough.
Your tree does potentially make William (1758) and William (1771) 1st cousins, which makes Elizabeth and Margaret 2nd cousins and the two sons 3rd cousins. That could explain why William (1771) and Euphemia came to be living at Loanhead at the time of their deaths.
Are you in contact with any Smith men who descend directly from William (1758)?
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Hi mowhit
I see in your tree you have Rev Alexander Clerihue as dying at the manse in Killearn, Stirlingshire in 1865.
There are several records showing Rev John Fiddes at Killearn. This does appear to be a potential connection between the families.
The ecclegen.com site shows Alexander accepted an appointment to Nassau, New Providence in 1863:
http://www.ecclegen.com/ministers-c/#CLERIHEW%20ALEXANDER
I found this newspaper report showing officiating a wedding in Nassu in 1864:
https://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00076890/00799/2x?search=clerihew
I have seen the record of his memorial in Stirlingshire at Find A Grave, and while the photo is not clear, it appears from the memorial that he died in Nassau not Killearn:
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2019/238/202310175_b396d0d9-8b83-4953-bb7c-d008d4a6a621.jpeg
EDIT: A report of Alexander being indisposed in Nassau in 1865:
https://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00076890/00809/2x?search=clerihew
EDIT: Notice of Alexander's death (with his obituary on the next page):
https://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00076890/00828/2x?search=clerihew
(Apologies for the edits, I found the Nassau Guardian archive site difficult to search.)
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Dear Seaton Smithy,
thank you for clarifying The Clerihue place of death and all the information from Nassau. That's great detective work.
It stated in eclegen.com/ministers that there was a cousin connection between the mothers of Fiddes and Clerihew. I found that they were more likely to be second cousins as their fathers are likely to be cousins who were both living at Loanhead at one time or another. Living at Loanhead, the mothers were also more likely to be close like sisters and may have lead to the confusion that they were sisters.
As the fathers were more likely to be cousins, I looked into this possibility and have found the connection between Peter 1734 and Alexander 1737 and thought it might just be a strong possibility and Peter's birth year was a strong possibility. Tough and Leochel Cushnie were neighbouring districts.
Without census records and death records it does get more complicated!
i have no other link to Smiths other than my own line.
I have done a DNA sample through Ancestry and can get some indication of family connections. I appear to have a link to Alexander 1737.
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Thanks, mowhit
There are several descendants of William Smith and Eupemia Laing who have tested at Ancestry, but confirming Williams's father and potentially his uncle are getting beyond the reliable time frame for autosomal DNA.
I have also tested for y-DNA and I am interested in finding a male-line descendant of William (1758) who would may be interested in doing the same.
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Something of interest:
On 27 May 1835 in the Sherrif's Court Peter Smith, farmer, Loanhead of Corse pursued rent from George Smith of Tillychrad which was also located in Coull.
This Peter may be the son of William (1771). In 1841 Peter son of William (1771) lived at Badenstone in Leochel-Cushnie.
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I was looking at the Drumin connection.
Is this the Drumin connection you refer to?
https://digital.nls.uk/histories-of-scottish-families/archive/95712095#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=60&xywh=-158%2C284%2C3521%2C2610