RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ann Baker on Wednesday 11 January 17 22:54 GMT (UK)
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Hi All
This is a big ask but we need as much help as possible. In Sheffield a number of schools planted trees and erected plaques in memory of former pupils who died in WW1. Western Road school (now known as Westways) was one such school but where other schools have a roll of honour this one does not and there is no record in the Sheffield archives of those who died.
I am working with a group of friends who due to the centenary want to plug this gap in the local archives and this is what we are seeking help with. the school opened in 1901 and there is a register of former pupils on Find My Past provided by the Sheffield Archives. I appreciate not everyone will have access to FindMyPast and this isn't the only place where these records are so this is just a suggestion.
What we are seeking to do is to find all the boys who were pupils who served in WW1 but especially those who died as the Western Road residents are planning a dedication service as part of the centenary.
We will be looking to contact any living relatives but that's for much later (and should not be posted on here). However if you are or know someone who is please PM me.
Meanwhile any information you can find for us about the war details of any Western Road pupil would be hugely appreciated.
Many thanks
Ann
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Hi Ann
That's a lovely idea, and I'm sure that a lot of us will be only too willing to help. The only problem I can see is that without a list of names on here, there could be a lot of duplication, with people looking up the same records. Perhaps someone could suggest how this could be avoided?
Is it Western Road Infants' School records that you are referring to? If so there are 3,921 records on there, although some can be eliminated as they would be too young to have fought in WW1.
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Hi
yes I totally see your point. I do have a spreadsheet with all the names on which I transcribed from FindMyPast school record which I am happy to PM to folks. There are almost 1400 names - hence the reason I say it's a big ask.
I can of course email this to people via a PM and maybe the way to do it is we allocate them say in blocks of 10/20 - whatever people feel comfy in taking on?
Ann :)
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Great idea - count me in, if you want to PM me some I'll have a look tomorrow.
Jan
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Thanks Jan :)
maybe if you could pm me your email and I can send the spreadsheet and you can select say the first 10 or whatever you'd like to do and then if someone else wants to do and they can have the next batch etc etc.
And yes sorry I didn;t answer your earlier point . It is Western Road Infants.
Many thanks
Ann
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Okay, will do. Perhaps if you just send me the first 10, then you can mark those off on your main sheet as being searched for, then the next person can take the next lot etc. That way we should avoid wasted time duplicating each other.
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Hello Ann,
Please may I help too. I await your PM.
Sheffield is half of my OH haha
Salute
Janelle
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Ann
Does the school info provide additional info such as parents/address etc? Only with that sort of personal info can one be sure that young Freddie Brown is the same Freddie Brown found in the Great War records.
That sounds awfully negative but with experience of work I have done with war memorials in my county I know how frustrating it can be to have two names that may be the same person but without the means to prove it.
maxD
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Hi Max
The school roll records their name, do.o.b., parent name and address and totally get your point and am sure there will be a few in there like that.
Thanks
Ann
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Splendid, makes the chance of success that much greater. My email coming by PM. Please send me a batch. And good luck :)
maxD
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Thanks for the email. Looked at the first 4, but can't find any military records as yet. At least one survived the war, do you want his death recorded so that you can eliminate him?
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yes please :)
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Ann,
It sounds like a very worthwhile project - so I've moved the topic to here in the Common Room so that more RootsChatters can help you.
All the best,
Trystan
RootsChat Support
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You may be interested in this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-38506358
These trees (which are in their way a war memorial) are amongst very many in Sheffield earmarked to be felled.
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Hi Annie
I know about the trees campaign (am actively involved in it). We hope we can save them but as a result of it we unearthed this huge gap in the archives which we wanted to sort out. Western Rd is one of a few streets here in Sheffield where war memorials in the shape of tree lined avenues exist. There are tho a few that have no roll of honour in the school and Western Road infants is one.
If we can save the trees, we will but if not we will I hope have a lasting record for the Crookes community we can give to the Sheffield archives as well as the War Memorials Trust in perpetuity. It's a close knit community and people feel very attached to what their trees represent and many are descendants of those who served whose families have stayed in the area. They are very proud of their boys (rightly so) and very excited we're doing this so they can have a proper roll of honour.
Best Wishes
Ann :)
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Hi Ann
Could the WW1 casualties who attended Western Road Infant School have been commemorated on a Memorial at any subsequent junior or secondary school they attended?
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Ann - did you get my e-mail with results of the 15 names you sent me?
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Hi
No already checked :( the War Memorials Trust also confirmed same. We've checked all the local churches as well just to make sure
Best Wishes
Ann
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Hi groom
I have. Sorry bit of hectic weekend and playing catch up at the mo. Will email you shortly :)
Best Wishes
Ann
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That's okay, just wanted to check I hadn't sent it to some unsuspecting person! No rush.
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I've only just seen this post - count me in too. PM sent with my email :)
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Thanks to everyone who is helping with this. A daunting task but it will really mean a lot to the Crookes community who are pretty excited that you are giving up your time to do this for them, A lot are quite elderly and don't do that 'tinternet thing' and the fact that people are willing to do this for them has just blown them away.
Best Wishes
Ann
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I'm enjoying it, Ann, and am glad I can help. It was quite a relief in a way, that out of the first batch you sent, I could only find one who died in the war.
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Ann, your point about the present day community prompts another thought. Where we find a service record for someone, it may be there is a relation who would like to know more about their relative's service and who doesn't do the "internet thing". I for one would be happy to share my findings further although I can see for you to act as a conduit for that may be too much.
maxD
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Good idea, Max.
Out of the first batch Ann sent me, there were some that I couldn't find at all after 1911 - no military records, although I know a lot were destroyed, no obvious war deaths, no sign in the 1939 and no later marriages or deaths. It does worry me a bit they may have died in WW1 and I've missed them.
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Just wondering as I can't find war service records for quite a few of these, would they be exempt from war service if they worked in the steel factories in Sheffield? For instance I've just found one who was working as a Layer On For File Hardener in 1911 and married 18 May 1918 occupation File scourer, so he doesn't seem to have been in the army.
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Groom - Re both your posts. The thought that their occupations/skills may have exempted them had occurred to me also - don't know the answer though.
As far as perhaps missing a death in action is concerned, I am quite sure that the good folks of Crookes will be nothing but content that those of us looking have done it to the best of our ability - and anyway I doubt that you will have missed any. You only have to look at the pleas on Rootschat for info about all sorts of folk to see that people do seem to vanish off the face of the earth quite easily :)
maxD
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Hi
I don't know if any were in 'reserved' occupations. In terms of living relatives the local Woodland Trust are working with the War Memorial Trust to get their service records and write up a profile. They've done quite a lot on the other school list I sent you as an example. That one has a dedication service in March this year. Western Road is a wee bit away.
The intent is that similar will be done for the Western roaders so I'll be sending our collective efforts to them. They're going to do the trying to find the living rellies but if you'd like to help with that bit too, I can certainly get you involved in that :)
Best wishes
Ann
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Oh dear, almost finished the second batch, with no casualties and then the last one I've done died back in the UK on 17.11.1918, just after the end of the war. Not only that the note on the CWGC site says that his two brothers were also killed, one in 1916 the other 13. 09. 1918 :'( :'(
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Hi,
Apologies for being a little late in responding but I have only just spotted this via a Google search! I attend Wesley Hall in Crookes and have been writing a history for the 64+ men who died in WWI and who were on its war memorial which has since been lost; I'm hoping to finish it as a book in the coming months in order to commemorate them in Crookes once again. I suspect the men from Western Road will overlap in places with the Wesley Hall casualties, would you like me to email all the names etc that I have and they could be cross referenced? Also, as someone who has also spent quite a lot of time in a similar search for Crookes WWI men recently if I can be of any assistance let me know!
Dan
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Hello Dan, welcome to Rootschat.
Hopefully Ann will see your post and reply to you.
I've been working on this with several others, and the thing that has surprised me is how few records there are. I think out of about 100 I've looked at, for so far there have only been 4 deaths and very few records. Do you know the answer to my previous question, was this because of the area and the fact that a lot of the men were in reserved occupations i,e worked in the steel mills? It may be of course that records from the companies they were in were among the burnt documents and that is why they can't be found.
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Groom - my experience has been that the number of records found is pretty much representative of the fact that only 30% of them survived so my conclusion is in line with your last sentence. Clearly there will be many more of them who served but we have only the medal records with same name and initials but no other identifying info.
maxD
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Very true, Max. Unless I can identify them beyond doubt, I haven't included them. The 1939 register is a great help, as if they are on that, they obviously survived WW1.
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Just another thought - I had to back track on my first batches when I realised I hadn't looked at Royal Navy records - found a couple (as well as two Canadian Forces where the family had emigrated before the war!)
maxD
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Hi Groom and Max,
Thank you for the quick response. I'd agree about the service papers having only approx 30% surviving, although I have managed to get a much higher hit rate through using other sources and then cross referencing th m in from there. I have found that using other rolls of honour and memorials is useful, have you looked at nearby churches etc for any recurring names as they tended to crop up and on several? The Sheffield soldiers website is very useful for this- it also has a full memorial and roll of honour from st. Timothy's to work from (212 dead and a further 772 serving).
The Wesley Hall men were very much Territorials and then conscripts but I get the impression that most of the male population were away in the forces; Wesley Hall had over 320 men serving by 1917 according to records, so I guess there weren't that many on reserved occupations (too far from the East End of the city for this?). I have been basing much of my research on old parish magazines and there really is an impression that there are not many able bodied men around at the time! The marriage records would also back this up. Hope this helps, and will wait to hear from Ann too,
Best wishes,
Dan
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Thanks for that Sheffield Soldiers' website - I'll check those names I couldn't find after 1918 against it.
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Hi All
Sorry for tardy response - been away with work this week. Dan - I'm already working on the St Tims list from the memorial in the church and we've also completed Crookesmoor school
What we're trying to do here is get the service records for all the Western Rd boys who served even tho the trees on Western Road are specifically linked to the war memorial. I don't know Dan if you're connected with the Crookes & Walkely trees group but they also are working with the Woodland Trust and are producing detailed info about their service careers. Are you linked to this?
Thanks
Ann
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Hi Ann,
Thanks for clarifying- I'm not actually affiliated to any groups as such, more just a local with a keen interest! Wesley Hall has been my focus and more than enough of a task in reality, the only info I've had to work from was a single copy of the original unveiling service but think I've nearly got there now. There seems to be a lot happening right now in Crookes in terms of remembrance, but there was probably thousands of servicemen from the area at the time!
If you'd like me to help looking through a batch or two of names I'd be happy to assist.
Dan
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Hi Dan
I you can pm me your email I'll send you a batch of names and also be good to chat about what you've done as the girls working on the re-dedication stuff I am very sure would be very interested in the work you've done to date :)
Best Wishes
Ann
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Ann - do you still need volunteers? If so, I'm happy to help. Let me know and I'll PM my email address.
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Hi Spider
My apologies . I don't know why but I missed this. Yes please! It would be very much appreciated :)
Thanks
Ann
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I want to say a huge THANK YOU!!!!!! to everyone who is helping with this one.
The trees are still there - but for how long who knows. However the local community are buzzing and it has sparked a real interest (even from those not born here - like myself) in finding out more about these war heroes.
Sheffield is a big city and the different areas are in some ways a bit village like but other areas of the city where there are war memorial trees are also getting mobilised. We had a very moving service for the Crookesmoor boys (area next to Western Road) a few weeks ago as their trees were planted in March1917. I don't think I'll be able to post it here because it has us the living in it but if anyone would like the link to the video footage please pm me.
We have also as a result been able to hand over a complete list of the Crookesmoor boys to the Sheffield archives as we will do with this project for Western Road.
I cannot thank Rootschatters who are helping us out with this enough. It's filling in a major gap in my adopted city's history
Best Wishes
Ann
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Only too glad to help, Ann - hope you got the last lot I sent you. I'm surprised how involved I have become as I have no connection with Sheffield, but I breathe a sigh of relief as I find a death in the 1960s or 1970s or find the men alive in the 1939 register, so know they survived WW1. Then of course there is the sadness after I've followed a boy through from a 5 year old at school, through the 1911, his signing up and then his death at the age of 18 or 19. Luckily a lot from the area did survive.
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I did - many many thanks as always :D. I know what you mean :) I'm almost willing them onto the 1939 as I go through them.
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Dear all who have been researching the Western Road School roll of honour.
I am partaking in an event this coming Saturday ARMISTICE and I wonder if you managed to compile a list of all 402 names that originally served from the school now WESTWAYS. I understand the plaque with the 65 names of the fallen has been 'lost' I would be very grateful of your help.
Dan danllywelynhall@gmail.com
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Welcome to Rootschat.
The list was being compiled by one of our number who I, and at least one other contributor, have not been in touch with since April.
As you have provided your email address, I shall email her drawing attention to your post, leaving the initiative for further contact to her.
MaxD
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Thank you Max. That's very kind of you. I am determined to get to the bottom of this list. The school seem to have thrown out the plaque at some point with all the 65 fallen names on and have no record.
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I was one of those who was working through the school list trying to determine which of the boys from there served in WW1 and which survived and which fell. I think we started last January, but I haven't heard from Ann since about March, so I hope that she is alright.
Hopefully she will either see this thread or respond to Max's e-mail.
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Fellow helpers with this project.
I have emailed Dan and suggested he try to contact Ann who posted her full name on this thread so I am not giving anything away. I have sent him the results of the names I researched as I saw no difference between his request and Ann's although I made it clear that we were working from names provided by Ann and, with one exception, I don't know who else was working on the project so how it all knits together I have no idea.
You will no doubt plough your own furrows!
MaxD.
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Hi
First of all a huge apology to everyone who was helping. Not been a great few months with illness (family and myself) and a few other things besides. Other half was meant to email people and it got forgotten.
Normal service resumed now. Will email those who were helping privately
Many thanks
Ann
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Sorry to hear you haven't been well, hope you are better now. If you still need any more names checking let me know - now that winter is coming I have more time.
Jan
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Thanks - i need to be more careful going down stairs!
Although Dan has mentioned 65 names below, that only refers to those to whom the memorial trees were planted. The school roll of honour was for all who served including survivors (many of whom also have living relatives in the area).
The purpose of this project is to have a complete list of all who served so that we can give this to the city archives as well as local groups who would like it. I have been in contact with Dan via facebook so hopefully we're all on the same page ;)