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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Dorset Lookup Requests => Dorset => England => Dorset Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: suggsy on Tuesday 31 January 17 21:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi, i am interested in trying to find the death record of Leonard Gordon Edwards.
He was born in Poole in 1931 with mother's maiden name of Egg.
I know the birth certificate to be exact and true fact.
I cannot find a death record, although not necessarily died in Poole, or even died at all.
I have been searching for many years, in the usual places online and history centres etc.
Any other help will be much appreciated.
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have you got him on the 1939 register?.
(we cannot do that particular lookup)
That'll tell you if he died prior to 1991 at least.
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Thank you Pauline, and sorry I forgot to mention (Slaps the back of my hand), yes he is on the 1939 register and that he was definitely alive in 1964 but nothing after.
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I googled his name, the second listing was someone in the Poole area, so it's possible he is still around....
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Thank you, yes I was thinking he may still be living, which makes him more difficult to find.
He'd be about 86 years old if still living.
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Hi
Rootschat has a "no living persons" policy so his name needs to be removed from your post to protect his privacy
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php
Please do not post requests asking for help to find (possibly) living relatives or friends.
RootsChat is a forum for searching for ancestors. Anything posted on the internet is in the public domain where anybody can see this information. To protect people and their identities we do not encourage the posting of information about people who are or maybe still living.
Even with permission from the subject of a post we would seriously advise against giving too much information as to betray their identity.
You could try www.192.com
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OK no problem, but I don't know if he is alive or not.
Any person maybe alive unless the record/certificate is found, but then we wouldn't need the help of others to find people.
All the best
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Hi suggsy
A belated Welcome to Rootschat ;D
googling his name also brings up the posts you have made on other forums/fora looking for the same information but without success.
So...
You mention quite specifically 1964, what event was that?
You mention in another topic a marriage to a Frances but you have refuted the suggestion of a marriage in 2001. Did you specifically purchase the 2001 Poole marriage? What information didn't match for you to rule this one out?
You were also advised to check the GRO death index after 2007 at one of the 7 host sites around the country as these records are not online. Have you done that?
Does he appear as the informant on his parents death certs? did they leave wills and was he an executor or beneficiary? was he a witness at his siblings marriages?
Where did his siblings grow up and move to and marry?
And lastly if people do disappear from the radar the usual causes can include emigration to anywhere in the world, a change in name, a split in the family.
If you have done all these things then the supposition is he is still alive and this topic should be removed from this forum in accordance with our 'no living people' policy. Please take a moment to read our guidelines for posting if you haven't done so already.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php
Dawn
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Hi Dawn thank you.
Yes as I've been searching for many years, I am as you say on quite a few forums websites etc, but as yet to no avail.
My father last physically saw him in 1964 but no other living person has said they have seen him since.
The marriage to a Frances in 2001 was not the Leonard I'm looking for unfortunately, incorrect age.
Yes the GRO index did not come up with anything (Although not checked in 2017 yet).
Unfortunately no to all the above as to not being an informant, or being an executor or benefciary, this is of no surprise as he was/is not fully mentally stable or responsible in that way as such.
His siblings were all from and grew up in Poole, Dorset.
Many thanks again for all your help and suggestions, not really sure where to look or go next.
However, obviously I don;t mind if my posts are removed on this subject as so far I can't provide a record of his death.
All the best
Wayne
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Thank you Pauline, and sorry I forgot to mention (Slaps the back of my hand), yes he is on the 1939 register and that he was definitely alive in 1964 but nothing after.
If someone born less than a hundred years ago is on the 1939 register, surely that means they had died before the point the register was no longer updated (1991 I think).
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That's interesting, thank you for that Lizzie, I didn't know the 1939 register is no longer updated, and was last updated around 1991.
That pins it down a little better for me.
Thank you
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Thank you Pauline, and sorry I forgot to mention (Slaps the back of my hand), yes he is on the 1939 register and that he was definitely alive in 1964 but nothing after.
If someone born less than a hundred years ago is on the 1939 register, surely that means they had died before the point the register was no longer updated (1991 I think).
They are still opening records now so it could have been done recently. There is also the chance that it was opened in error, it would not be the first
ADDED - What is his date of birth
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Thank you Rosie, my father has the birth cert, but is definitely either March or May 1931 in Poole (Mother's maiden name of Egg).
He had about 4 brothers and a sister.
Mother was Rose/Rosie Egg... (Married to the father Charles Edwards) Married in 1918 in Poole.
His sister was Gladys Edwards (Later married and was then surname of Lyle).
Gladys was my grandmother. (Dad's mother) I knew her personally.
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They are still opening records now so it could have been done recently. There is also the chance that it was opened in error, it would not be the first
ADDED - What is his date of birth
FindMyPast only opens records if they are supplied with evidence of a person's death (i.e death certificate). So someone would have to have been researching this family and have found the DC if that was the case. But it still could have been opened in error.
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Thanks Lizzie, this is also interesting, so 'if' there is no error, and he is listed in 1939 register, does that mean he is deceased now?
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Sorry, I forgot his date of birth is 6th March 1931 in Poole, Dorset.
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Hi
As mentioned in a previous reply - online death registrations are only available up to 2007. After that - some deaths are available online from 2008 but this is by no means a complete index
This man's death does not appear on any available online record and you have been advised that the only remaining action you can take is to search the available GRO indexes from that date at one of the host sites around the country.
His full name does not appear on the probate register from 2008 - date so all the indications are he is still alive https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
You mention some mental issues so he may be in a residential care home or similar given his age.
I have 2 relatives born 1928 and 1929 respectively plus 2 neighbours born 1919 and 1920 all of whom are still very much alive
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Thanks Carole, interesting information.
I'll definitely check the GRO again from 2007, and yes if he is still alive then obviously you can delte my posts on this subject, but to find care home etc is pretty much impossible really.
I'll keep looking :)
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Might be an error listing in the 1939 register as said above, as he is listed on that.
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As an example, I think there are too many names born 1939 now opened on the 1939 than there will have been death certs supplied since the register went online.
FindMyPast are opening records themselves without death certs where they are finding matches in the death indexes currently available to them.
The record may be open based on this entry in the death index, the 1939 does not specifiy a middle name and the date of birth on the 1939 doesn't match what suggsy has given (look under the red ink notation)
Leonard George Edwards
Birth Date: 6 Mar 1930
Date of Registration: Jan 1989
Registration district: Droxford, Hampshire
Volume: 20
Page: 263
There isn't a Leonard G Edwards in the birth index for Mar 1/4 1930
The other forum post mentions you have this cert, apart from the middle name being 'wrong' what else isn't correct?
https://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/87458-Edwards-death-record
Information on death certs is informant driven. Who registered this death and in what capacity?
Have you checked the fathers name on the 2001 marriage cert, I wouldn't rule out a marriage just because the ages are wrong.
And as it happens the GRO copy of my marriage cert has the wrong fathers name on it even though my original is correct.
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Thanks Dawn, but you maybe slightly confused.
Leonard is registered in the 1939 register.
But the birth and death record for you quote above is not the one I'm looking for, my Leonard was born March 1931 and is Leonard Gordon Edwards.
The Charles Edwards you mention above, in another forum refers to his father and not Leonard, which he (Married Rose/Rosie) also in Poole in 1918
There is no marriage record for Leonard Edwards.Also when other members of the family were still alive (Latest 1992), his sister, she said he never married.
Also, I thought that if the father was no longer living at the time of a son's marriage, then the father will not be on the certificate. (Leonard's father dies in the 1960s)
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There is no marriage record for Leonard Edwards.Also when other members of the family were still alive (Latest 1992), his sister, she said he never married.
Did they say he was alive then. :-\
What age was given for the Leonard who married Frances and who was his father.
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So, have you actually purchased the 1989 death cert for Leonard George Edwards even though you know the middle name is not what you are expecting to see?
The day and month of birth is exactly the same as the date you gave but the year is wrong but as I mentioned there is no birth for this event in the birth index.
And have you purchased the 2001 marriage cert of Leonard G Edwards to Frances in Poole?
From experience, where people distance themselves from their families because of health problems or a breakdown in comunication, the other family members do not know exactly what happens and can make assumptions which may turn out not to be correct.
Unless you have purchased every possible marriage cert from 1947 (when aged 16) to date and death cert which are informant driven and may not agree with other documents, you cannot say that he did or didn't marry or that he hasn't passed away with a different name/date of birth on his death cert.
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Thanks Rosie, unless I misunderstood the above posts, (Unless he is listed in error) then whoever is listed in the 1939 register died before 1991?
I know when his sister died that Leonard was already dead.
Leonard's sister is my father's mother as I stated above, the only Edwards side left is my father and 2 cousins of my father.
If however Leonard is still alive, he must be listed in the 1939 register by error, apparently.
I will check the father's name of the Leonard who married Frances, but I'd say it's still not the one, 'my' Leonard won't be in a fit mental state to marry etc, he was able bodied but the mind was not 100% like that.
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Thanks Dawn yes I have purchased those docs years ago, although frustrating I am not the kind to assume anything, hence why most of us only ask for help after many years of document/certificate searching.
I have never assumed he or anyone did this or that, I don;t believe hardly anything regarding birth, marriage or death until I see the certificate. I have no trouble distancing myself at all, I've been doing it too many years, hence asking for more help.
Frustrating as it is, but I believe as said a few times and I agree, that there is probably an error in the name when entering into a death for him, even after checking available likely ones.
Even though the birth cert states Leonard Gordon Edwards, again in the death could be an error in the name in the record, but I've checked all listed ones that maybe a possibility, but he must be somewhere lol
Thanks anyway all, I'll keep looking :)
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so if 'we' look more closely at the death cert for Leonard George Edwards in 1989, you would have expected the middle name to be Gordon but it is Gerge. You also expected his date of birth to be 6 March 1931 not 1930.
Where did this chap pass away?
Death certs after should state a place of birth? what is listed
What is shown as the deceased's address and occupation? and is a marital status shown.
Who was the informant, their capapcity for being the informant and their address?
what was the cause of death?
Once we have this information we can look further into the person who this death cert belongs to and whether or not they are your person of interest.
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Thanks Rosie, unless I misunderstood the above posts, (Unless he is listed in error) then whoever is listed in the 1939 register died before 1991?
When the 1939 Register was made available I searched for my maternal grandparents (both died in early 1980s) as I knew I should be able to find them. I found them and also their daughter, who died in 2002!
My paternal grandfather managed to get his own birthdate completely wrong....day, month and year. so it is worth checking everything.
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If he was not of a fit mental state to marry, his mental capacity may well have deteriorated further, so quite possible he moved into residential care.
Should that be the case and if there was no family contact, it leaves ample scope for misinformation when it comes to recording a death, if he is not still alive.
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This is exactly correct, ad if he died in thse circumstances I doubt I'll find a record.
But yes thank you, this could well be the explanation and that he may have died in some care home etc.
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so do you or don't you have the 1989 death cert of Leonard George Edwards registered Droxford?
I keep asking for more of the details.
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Yes, I have that certificate
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This is just to let everyone who is following the topic know that I have been having a chat off-forum with Suggsy and it is almost certain that, sadly, the death in 1989 is the Leonard that he and his family have been looking for.
I have seen the death cert.
Leonard died in hospital and the death was registered by a member of staff, not next of kin.
The middle name is not what Suggsy was expecting and the year of birth is a year out, but I'm sure there are many of you who will tell of your own experiences with death certs for people in your own trees where the information doesn't match 100%.
I expect Suggsy will now try to find out where Leonard's funeral took place, I have suggested Portchester Crematorium, and he might try to obtain the hospital records if they can be provided after the production of a death cert. I don't know how this is affected by a 100 year closed period and what the archives policy is.
So I'm marking this topic completed on Suggsy's behalf.
Thank you to everyone for your contributions.
Dawn
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Just a quick line to say thank you to Dawn and everyone on this excellent site.
Thank you all for your knowledge hard work and efforts, I have passed on the information and suggestions and hopefully as Dawn has said this maybe the person I'm looking for.
I will continue to use this site as I did years ago, and try to help where I can and have some input.
Thanks again all