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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Treetotal on Thursday 02 March 17 10:45 GMT (UK)
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I am helping someone to trace the birth of Alice May Tiplady who was born in Philadelphia around 1905/6.
In 1911 she is aged 5 years old and is living with her Uncle, John Henry Tiplady age 38 and born and living in Bradford, also in residence is her Aunt, Ada Jane Tiplady age 36, and born in Thirsk and listed as single and died in 1914
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On Alice May's marriage certificate in 1924 in Christ Church in York, she has changed her name to May Brearley naming her deceased Father as Louis Brearley with John Henry Tiplady named as a witness.
It looks like she may be the illegitimate Daughter of Ada Jane or one of her Sisters.
Any help to trace her birth would be greatly appreciation as I only have subs for Ancestry UK.
Thanks for looking.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
You might have a slight problem with this one - Prior to 1906, Pennsylvania births and deaths were recorded only sporadically by the counties and some cities such as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Genealogists rely on county records or non-governmental sources such as church registers, gravestone inscriptions and newspapers to obtain data for this earlier period.
At a cost (sorry hate to suggest this avenue) - You could request a search of records at the Philadelphia City Archives - Submit a written request with as much detail as possible (i.e. exact names and exact month/year) along with a cheque or money order made out to "City of Philadelphia" and a self-addressed stamped envelope (Letter size 4-1/8" x 9-1/2") .
The Archives needs the month and year of birth, death or marriage, along with the names of the parties. For birth records, the names of the parents are also required. Mailed requests for copies of certificates cost $10.00, which includes a simple search. In-person copies from microfilm reader/printers cost $1.00 per page, $2.00 minimum. If exact month and year are not known, or exact names are not known, provide the date range and name information and a search can be performed.
http://www.phila.gov/records/archives/faq.html
Notice there is an ancestry tree which gives the birth date as 8 October 1905 - Philadelphia Delaware ???
Sandra
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Hi Sandra and thanks for your quick response...this information came from her Grandson who lives in Canada but is currently in the UK...I am researching the Tiplady Family as I have been asked to find family of donated Bible and album of old photgraphs and have made contacted through a tree owner on Ancestry.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764898.0
Carol
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There is a Pennsylvania birth index from 1906-1911 here - http://www.phmc.pa.gov/Archives/Research-Online/Pages/Birth-Indices.aspx A quick look at the T section of 1906 didn't show her.
There are Philadelphia births for 1860-1906 here - https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1951739?collectionNameFilter=false Again, I didn't see her under Tiplady.
Notice there is an ancestry tree which gives the birth date as 8 October 1905 - Philadelphia Delaware ???
There is a Delaware Co. right near Philadelphia, so that may be what they're referring to, rather than the state of Delaware.
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Thanks for that Shelly...no record for her under Tiplady or Brearley on either link :-\...thanks for your time.
Carol
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Brearley Family are mentioned in the History of Delaware County............. (interesting read - will post for interest just in case we can make a link - there is a Louis (deceased mentioned) ) Part 1
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Part 2
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Oh that's interesting Sandra...I think that should be Milnrow my DIL was born there. Interesting that John was in the textile industry in 1911....Strange that John says he is married in 1911 but no wife in residence and he clearly took responsibility for Alice as she lived with him with her husband and can be seen on the 1939 register but down as Olive M Bedford ???
Thanks for your time, it could help with the bigger picture.
Carol
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The plot thickens...1944 in The Leeds Intelligencer... I wonder ::)
FreeBMD:
Births Sep 1905
Brearley Alice Mary Rochdale
Carol
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Probate for Edith
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Louis and Edith marriage North Bierley - Q3 - 1909 - 9b 529
Probate for Louis
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There is an ancestry tree on Louis Brearley (1886 - 1955) son of Allen Brearley (1858 - 1926) and Sarah J Wear (1859 - 1921 )
Sandra
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Aw thanks Sandra...it all helps to build a bigger picture...this lady's Daughter is 89 years old and has always wondered why no birth could be found.
The one I posted In Rochdale isn't the right one as the MMN was Boocock.
I appreciate your time and hope we can resolve this as this lady's Daughter is 89 years old and would love to solve the mystery surrounding Alice's birth.
Carol
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From the GRO for that year:
Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BREARLEY, ALICE HOLMES Order
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in HUDDERSFIELD Volume 09A Page 352
BREARLEY, ALICE ELWICK Order
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in HUNSLET Volume 09B Page 236
BREARLEY, ALICE MARY BOOCOCK Order
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 70
Carol
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There is an ancestry tree on Louis Brearley (1886 - 1955) son of Allen Brearley (1858 - 1926) and Sarah J Wear (1859 - 1921 )
Sandra
Thanks for that Sandra and the probate...I will take a look...He was a man of means wasn't he...The GRO has no match for a birth either as Tiplady or Brearley either side of 1905
I have a feeling this one will remain a mystery but all the info on Louis could prompt some ideas for the family.
You are so good and I just know if the info was out there...you would find it, but, if the truth has been covered up in the past to hide an indiscretion then all we are left with is speculation ::)
Carol
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Been looking at UK incoming passenger lists but haven't found anything for Alice, May or Alice May.
Sandra
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Aw..I have thought about that too...In 1939 she is Living with her Uncle John Tiplady and her Husband Arthur and calling herself Olive M. Bedford b. Oct.8, 1905.
Carol
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Can't see any passenger list for Louis/Lewis Brearley/Briarley (1886) going to the USA or Ada Jane Tiplady (1875)
No mention of Alice May/Olive M in the probate for John Henry Tiplady -
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The Tiplady sisters Florence Mary Tiplady and Edith Hannah Tiplady both appear to have been certificated teaching assistants.
Edith Hannah born 1885 names Florence Mary in her probate 13 March 1959 Nottingham.
Florence Mary Tiplady probate to Annie Margaret Sutcliffe and Cyril Joseph Sutcliffe (pharmaceutical chemist)
The probate record for Sister Martha Ann named Florence Mary Tiplady - Martha 232 Mansfield Road Derby Nottinghamshire. (21 April 1960)
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Quote - On Alice May's marriage certificate in 1924 in Christ Church in York, she has changed her name to May Brearley naming her deceased Father as Louis Brearley with John Henry Tiplady named as a witness.
Was her mother named on the marriage certificate ? Was it Ada Jane Tiplady ?
Sandra
Found that marriage cert Carol - had her under Mary Briarley on the A site. ???
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Wilfred Lawson Tiplady was born in Wales and came to Hull where the bible and album ended up so I am pleased to be able to have that snippet...so grateful for your detailed searches Sandra and the lengths that you have gone to. If nothing else, you have given us so much info that we wouldn't otherwise wise have had.
I have sent the link to the tree tree owner for his Family file. I do believe that The Louis Brearley info is the right man, but proving it will not be easy ::)
Thanks again.
Carol
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and the mother definitely Ada Jane ???
Sandra
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Quote - On Alice May's marriage certificate in 1924 in Christ Church in York, she has changed her name to May Brearley naming her deceased Father as Louis Brearley with John Henry Tiplady named as a witness.
Was her mother named on the marriage certificate ? Was it Ada Jane Tiplady ?
Sandra
Yes that is the right information but no she wasn't...but...I do believe that Ada could well be her Mother and John took responsibiliy for Alice as Ada died in 1914.
Steve is very excited about all this as it seems to prove that Alice was a Tiplady.
You are one helluva researcher and I can't thank you enough :-*
Carol
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I'll be back later Carol.
Sandra
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Hi,
I do a lot of research in Pennsylvania and would like to help you but you will need to clarify a few things, as I am confused. For one thing, you mentioned Philadelphia and then you mentioned York, and I'm thinking that you were referring to York, Pennsylvania. It took me awhile to realize this was not so.
You are doing researching on behalf of an 89-year old woman who is looking for her parents. She believes that her mother is the Alice May Tiplady mentioned in the 1911 census, born in the United States and living with her uncle and aunt, correct? If so, how did you arrive at a birth location of Philadelphia?
Second, if it was the Brearleys that were in America and the Tipladys never left England, how could Alice Tiplady have been born in the U.S.A.?
Sorry if these questions seem obvious, but I can't sort them out. Just let me know and I will see what I can find, if you are still interested.
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Probate for Wilfred Lawson Tiplady - Interesting -
there was an ancestry tree that gave his wife's death as 1950 but that is for a Mary Ellen Heron buried - Luddendenfoot, St Mary, Yorkshire, England ???
Sandra
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Probate for Wilfred Lawson Tiplady
Sandra
Spot on Sandra...his wife Elizabeth Harron...thanks again.
Carol
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Looks like they may have had 2 sons
Tiplady Wilfred Harron Sculcoates 9d 296 - December 1911
and March 1922
Tiplady James Harron Sculcoates 9d 259 - March 1922
Sandra
Added Interesting an ancestry tree gives Wilfred and Margaret but no details for Margaret ???
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Hi,
I do a lot of research in Pennsylvania and would like to help you but you will need to clarify a few things, as I am confused. For one thing, you mentioned Philadelphia and then you mentioned York, and I'm thinking that you were referring to York, Pennsylvania. It took me awhile to realize this was not so.
You are doing researching on behalf of an 89-year old woman who is looking for her parents. She believes that her mother is the Alice May Tiplady mentioned in the 1911 census, born in the United States and living with her uncle and aunt, correct? If so, how did you arrive at a birth location of Philadelphia?
Second, if it was the Brearleys that were in America and the Tipladys never left England, how could Alice Tiplady have been born in the U.S.A.?
Sorry if these questions seem obvious, but I can't sort them out. Just let me know and I will see what I can find, if you are still interested.
Hi Em...The information came from Ancestry through her Grandson's research.
I can only give you what has been passed to me by her Grandson.
Thanks for your interest.
Carol
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Probate for the first son Wilfred (1911) passed away 3 Feb 1983 8 Charnwood Close Hall Road Leckhampton Cheltenham - vol 22 page 1798
Probate Date 11 Mar 1983 - Registry Birmingham
Sandra
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Looks like they may have had 2 sons
Tiplady Wilfred Harron Sculcoates 9d 296 - December 1911
and March 1922
Tiplady James Harron Sculcoates 9d 259 - March 1922
Sandra
That's right Sandra...Wilfred had two children in the 1940s..a son and a Daughter with May Williamson who where born in The Wirral and will still be living. I have a photo of them both with a lady named "May in our garden" but which May now...i'm not sure.
Carol
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Probate for the first son Wilfred (1911) passed away 3 Feb 1983 8 Charnwood Close Hall Road Leckhampton Cheltenham - vol 22 page 1798
Probate Date 11 Mar 1983 - Registry Birmingham
Sandra
Thanks Sandra...I have the same death date in Cheltenham but not the address.
Carol
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Maybe this could be another possibility for the mother of Alice May ??? Another Tiplady sister Annie Margaret Tiplady - 26 Apr 1883 - Walsall West Midlands. Passed away 26 Oct 1909 -
Derby, Derby Unitary Authority, Derbyshire. Cemetery Nottingham Road Cemetery.
Chaddesden, Derby Unitary Authority, Derbyshire.
FIND A GRAVE
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=156634309&ref=acom
Sandra
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So you no longer want or need the birth information, correct?
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Maybe this could be another possibility for the mother of Alice May ??? Another Tiplady sister Annie Margaret Tiplady - 26 Apr 1883 - Walsall West Midlands. Passed away 26 Oct 1909 -
Derby, Derby Unitary Authority, Derbyshire. Cemetery Nottingham Road Cemetery.
Chaddesden, Derby Unitary Authority, Derbyshire.
FIND A GRAVE
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=156634309&ref=acom
Sandra
Sandra....there were a few Sisters but I think Ada is the most likely but it's good to have this one one too...I've not seen this one before...thanks again...you are a star larker...I hope you have eaten ;D ;D
Carol
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So you no longer want or need the birth information, correct?
I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion Em...it has been noted that she was born in Philadelphia but at this moment in time...no birth registration has been located for her with either the surname Tiplady or Brearley anywhere...so, the jury is still out.
Thanks for your interest and all help is very much appreciated. Her birth date on the 1939 register gives her birth date of Oct. 8, 1905 and that is where I think the info came from, but, as mentioned earlier...facts could have been distorted to hide the truth of her birth if she was the illegitimate child fathered by a married man.
Thanks for your interest.
Carol
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Yes, well, as I said, 1905 is actually fairly recent and there are ways to get birth information here in Philadelphia and the vicinity. I would be happy to help but I am still unclear as to the facts. If you would like me to investigate, I will need some clarification.
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All the facts that Carol is aware of are in this thread.
This is one of those that might never reveal the "secret" Carol. Would have liked to have found someone/something that lead us to the USA but even GRO isn't revealing any clues in the UK either ??? Think I've gone through all the Tiplady sisters and brothers - amazing how many sisters remained unmarried.
Sandra
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Found a Mary J Tiplady born 1870 on a UK return passenger list - departing Philadelphia 17 October 1906 on the Merion
Then looked for the out going and found Mary J Tiplady born 1870 Bradford and aged 36 years - single - weaver - Liverpool to Philadelphia - on the Haverford - arriving 28 May 1906
So frustrating - same area - dates would work - but name and age slightly out !!!!!!!!!!! However, going to a sister Priscilla Nailor in Philadelphia. ::)
Can't find her in 1911 ???
Sandra
Added - Just to make sure - so that we can discount - this looked like Mary J Tiplady with the sister Pricilla transcribed as Haylor on the 1901 UK Horton Bradford. ::)
Charlie L Haylor 24 and Prescott Haylor 26
Mary J Tiplady 31 Sister-in-law
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Hmmm perhaps another Lewis/Louis Brearley to put in the frame - 1901 Mirfield Dewsbury Yorkshire - area might fit ??? Lewis was changed to Louis back in 2014 on the ancestry entry.
Still in Mirfield in 1911.
Joseph Brearley 45 Fanny Brearley 45
Fred Brearley 23
Lewis Brearley 20 Born Mirfield, Yorkshire. Hewer in Coal Mine.
Eleanor Brearley 19 Hilda Brearley 14
Percy Brearley 11 Emily Brearley 9
Edith Brearley 8 Herbert Brearley 3
Thomas Hudson 15 Thomas Goodbear 15
David Goodbear 13
Sandra
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Yes, well, as I said, 1905 is actually fairly recent and there are ways to get birth information here in Philadelphia and the vicinity. I would be happy to help but I am still unclear as to the facts. If you would like me to investigate, I will need some clarification.
Whilst I appreciate your offer...I have given every detail available to me and therefor am unsure as to what you feel needs clarifying....I can't give you any more than what has already been given.
Carol
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I do not understand what you have written. That is what I am asking for regarding clarification. I was hoping you could explain once more the information you are looking for, and what you have to go on. I simply do not understand all that has been said and discovered over these 5 pages.
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Referring to reply 38 Carol - I have found Mary J Tiplady again married Dec 1906 Bradford - 9b 256 to a William Calvert - found her later on a UK return passenger list in 1921 - Philadelphia - Liverpool on the Haverford - - going to 12 Ackworth Street Bradford. So definitely discounted.
Sandra
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Hmmm perhaps another Lewis/Louis Brearley to put in the frame - 1901 Mirfield Dewsbury Yorkshire - area might fit ??? Lewis was changed to Louis back in 2014 on the ancestry entry.
Still in Mirfield in 1911.
Joseph Brearley 45 Fanny Brearley 45
Fred Brearley 23
Lewis Brearley 20 Born Mirfield, Yorkshire. Hewer in Coal Mine.
Eleanor Brearley 19 Hilda Brearley 14
Percy Brearley 11 Emily Brearley 9
Edith Brearley 8 Herbert Brearley 3
Thomas Hudson 15 Thomas Goodbear 15
David Goodbear 13
Sandra
I must admit that I did look at this one too but wasn't sure, but he could also be a contender so he is also worth further scrutiny....thanks for that.
Carol
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Referring to reply 38 Carol - I have found Mary J Tiplady again married Dec 1906 Bradford - 9b 256 to a William Calvert - found her later on a UK return passenger list in 1921 - Philadelphia - Liverpool on the Haverford - - going to 12 Ackworth Street Bradford. So definitely discounted.
Sandra
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That's some coincidence though isn't it Sandra. I am struck by the fact that John Tiplady names 5 year old Alice May as his niece in 1911, is also living with his sister and gives his status as married but no wife is in residence just his Sister ???
His Sister Ada who is living with him dies 3 years later. Then John is a witness at Alice May's wedding in 1924. Alice and her Husband go to live with John and stay for many years until at least 1939!
That's got to be significant. I'm sold on the idea that Alice was the illegitimate Daughter of Ada.
Where Philadelphia fits in I'm not sure but the Brearley's American link is hard to ignore. Both John Tiplady and the Brearley Family have links to the textile industry given John's occupation in 1911.
Carol
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Just had a closer look at the 1939 register and noticed that her name has been mis-transcribed as Olive M but it actually says Alice M.
Thanks everyone for all your help and time spent on this one.
Carol
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Just bringing you all up to date...the tree holder and his family in Canada have been following this topic with great enthusiasm and are very grateful for the information provided through detailed research on here. He lives in Canada and is in the UK for the next few weeks and will be visiting Hull to collect the Tiplady Family Bible along with a Victorian photo album which was donated with the bible. He will be taking them back to Canada in time for his Mum's 90th birthday 🎈
I have scanned some of the cabinet cards and emailed them to him which have been sent to his Sisters in Canada who in turn, showed them to their delighted Mum who has identified at least five individuals in the group photos.
Thanks once again especially to Sandra for all the time spent and information provided. :-*
There are two photos on the restoration board for confirmation of dates which the family believe shows Alice May and Ada Jane with Family members.
Carol
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Terrific Carol - well done you for reuniting another family with bible and photo's - great achievement.
Regards
Sandra ;D
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Thanks Sandra....This has been a very enlightening and amazing journey for the family and am in regular email contact sharing other bits of info that I have sent him to help him piece it all together.
What buzz ;D
Carol
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Let me know if I can help further Carol - keeps me off the streets - lol ;D ;D
Sandra
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Just sharing one from the album... the Tiplady siblings...isn't it lovely 8)
Carol
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Let me know if I can help further Carol - keeps me off the streets - lol ;D ;D
Sandra
;D ;D ;D ;D...Thanks Sandra...I may need to take you up on that as I only have UK subs to Ancestry...Steve is going to renew his subs when he gets back to Canada.
Carol
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I Just thought that I would give you an update...The Tiplady family bible and photo album has been collected amid much excitement and tears of joy. Steve, who is over in the UK from Canada returning next month in time for the 90th Birthday of his Mum....and taking the Bible and album with him.
We had a fantastic afternoon poring over the album and bible and going over what has been learned with the help of the generous Rootschatters who went out of their way to help.
To Steve's delight, the album had a named photo of Ada Jane Tipady who we now believe to be Alice May's Mother and Steve's Great, Great Grandmother. She is the young lady on the far right on the back Row in the photo attached earlier.
Steve wishes to pass on his grateful thanks on behalf of his Mum and Sisters for all your help...he has seen all your replies and the information as been noted and shared.
This has been a very rewarding experience for me but more so for the Family back in Canada.
Special thanks to Sandra for all her help :-*
I wish I could share the beautiful bouquet with you Sandra.
Carol
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Oh wow Carol - absolutely brilliant - sorry i hadn't picked up the last few posts for some reason. Fabulous photograph - you are a star.
Enjoy the flowers Carol, that was a lovely gesture from Steve and Family.
Cheers
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra...It was very rewarding. :D
Carol