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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: karen58 on Tuesday 13 June 17 15:21 BST (UK)
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Hello Everyone
Does any one know what a cloging workloom is. It was listed on a 1722 inventory.
The inventory also lists a 'Chiff in the shop', so I image he had a loom shop, but can't find out what a Chiff is either.
It seems to be some type of furniture as a second Chiff is listed as being in the parlor. Thought it might be an abbreviation for a chiffonier, but it seems that chiffoniers didn't come into use until the Regency period.
Regards
Karen
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It may help to see the actual writing. Can you provide a snip of the original document?
If possible include a few additional words to give an idea of the style of writing, spelling etc.
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Hello Ruskie
On second look, it might be chist?
The Cloging workloomes are in a list of items owing to him.
Hope this helps
Karen
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If it is chist could this mean chest.
Now I'm getting confused.
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I think you are right = chist = chest.
Could have been like a blanket chest today, would have been used to keep samples & materials in.
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I'd definitely say that 'chist' here would be a chest.
I have seen this often in wills.
Probably accounted for by whatever accent the people had where this took place.
Plus you always have to remember that spelling was not 'fixed' until comparatively recently -
just in this clip 'little' is written 'littell', and 'chair' is written 'chear'.
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Hi Goldie 61
It definitely is chest as there was three chests listed in his father's inventory, but spelt Chestes.
Odd thing is, the spelling in his father's will and inventory (1686) is very much like today's. Much easier to transcribe.
Regards
Karen
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Glad that the "chests" have been sorted.
I will leave it to the writing experts to decipher, but I am not sure that is a 'Cl' before "_oging workloomes". :-\
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This is an interesting site. Chist = chest.
file:///Users/Richard/Desktop/Glossary%20of%20terms%20%7C%20South%20Pennine%20Probate%20Archive.webarchive
Sorry, that link doesn't work.
will try again!
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but I am not sure that is a 'Cl' before "_oging workloomes". :-\
You're right Ruskie it is not like the other 'c's; but the first letter looks very like the first letter of the word before 'chear' in the last line of the second snippet. Is that word 'couch'?
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Hi Ruskie
Yes I think goldie61 & josey are right - going with them anyway.
I am not sure if the word is Cloging either, how can you know for sure?
Have attached the word Chattell to compare it with Cloging. What do you think?
Could a cloging loom be a be a warp-weighted loom?
Been goggle searching looking for the meaning of the word clog and this is what might be a remote possibility:
Farlex Dictionary - anything that impedes movement; encumbrance or hindrance.
From the Oxford Dictionary - Origin: Middle English (a weight in the sense of a ‘block of wood to impede an animal's movement' of unknown origin.
Oh! sounds cruel.
Thank you all for your interest.
Cheers
Karen
Cheers
Karen
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I am not sure that is a 'Cl' before "_oging workloomes". :-\
I don't know what the mystery item is either, but I'm pretty sure the first letter is 'C',
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/alphabets/majuscules/C.html
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Apparently workloom was term occasionally used to mean tools.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/workloom
So - might it be tools associated with making clogs :-\ :-\
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Hi JenB and Josey
I think the word before chear is couch.
The word couch originated in Middle English from the Old French noun couche, which derived from the verb meaning "to lie down, so maybe a couch chear is a chair for lying on like a chaise.
Not certain about a tool for making clogs. Have not a clear understand of what Thomas' occupation was as he only refers to himself as a yeoman, but his father's inventory listed 2 looms.
Warm Regards
Karen
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I don't think there's any doubt the letter is a capital "c', and the word is 'cloging'. It's a classic capital 'c' in this hand.
Here's the link to the Glossary I tried before.
http://www.southpenninehistorygroup.org.uk/probate/glossaries/glossary-of-terms
chist = chest
Here's what it says about 'couch chair'
A north country term for a panel backed settle
Also 'clog' - Clog
Block of wood; the familiar meaning is a wooden-soled shoe. See also Anvil clogg.
Did they wear clogs in Yorkshire at that time?!
I've not been able to find exactly what a 'cloging workloom' was though.
The idea JenB has that it was tools for making clogs is an interesting one though.
Is there anything else in the inventory that might give any more clues? - Leather, special hammers? etc.
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I know next to nothing about looms but from Google, possible meanings of 'cloging workloom' could be: a 'workloom' or tool/place for repairing/replacing damage in a woven textile caused by 'clogging' during the main industrial weaving process. Causes include broken/frayed threads, shuttle not travelling over its full range, etc. See http://bit.ly/2rgNTAY (http://bit.ly/2rgNTAY).
My more fanciful idea is calling a wooden 'flying shuttle' a 'clog' just because it looks like one to me :). Couldn't find any support for this idea though. An even more fanciful idea: 'clogging' is also a form of entertainment practiced by industrial weavers: tapping their clogs to the rhythm of a weaving shuttle. Could a 'clogging workloom' be a colloquial term for a type of loom that people 'clogged' to? ;)
Be interested to read more informed theories.
Mike
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Yes, I now see that the first letter is a C - the same as Chattel. :)
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Apparently workloom was term occasionally used to mean tools.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/workloom
So - might it be tools associated with making clogs :-\ :-\
The Oxford English Dictionary might support that theory ...
clogging, n.
2a. The action of soling with wooden soles
work-loom, n.
Chiefly Sc. Now rare.
A tool or implement, esp. one used in manual labour
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I don't think there's any doubt the letter is a capital "c', and the word is 'cloging'. It's a classic capital 'c' in this hand.
Here's the link to the Glossary I tried before.
http://www.southpenninehistorygroup.org.uk/probate/glossaries/glossary-of-terms
chist = chest
Here's what it says about 'couch chair'
A north country term for a panel backed settle
Also 'clog' - Clog
Block of wood; the familiar meaning is a wooden-soled shoe. See also Anvil clogg.
Did they wear clogs in Yorkshire at that time?!
I've not been able to find exactly what a 'cloging workloom' was though.
The idea JenB has that it was tools for making clogs is an interesting one though.
Is there anything else in the inventory that might give any more clues? - Leather, special hammers? etc.
Hi goldie61
Thank you for the link, very good resource, and thank you for your interest in this little puzzle.
I don't know if people wore clogs in 1722 either.
There are no other tools listed on the inventory except for 'hasslements'. The main items are household goods, furniture etc and a list of over 24 debtors, who in total owe him about 50 pounds. Even his wife is listed as a debtor 'Mary Platt his wife' who owed him over 5 pounds.
He owns land that he inherited from his father, uncle and aunt and his will gives very precise locations as to were the land was.
He refers to himself as a yeoman but there is no mention of cattle, sheep or stores of crops in the inventory.
His father's inventory lists wooden looms and other items of a weavers trade, so because it was customary for trades to be passed down from father to son, I have assumed he would also be a weaver.
Maybe he was a moneylender or usurer? Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to what he did for a living.
Cheer
Karen
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I know next to nothing about looms but from Google, possible meanings of 'cloging workloom' could be: a 'workloom' or tool/place for repairing/replacing damage in a woven textile caused by 'clogging' during the main industrial weaving process. Causes include broken/frayed threads, shuttle not travelling over its full range, etc. See http://bit.ly/2rgNTAY (http://bit.ly/2rgNTAY).
My more fanciful idea is calling a wooden 'flying shuttle' a 'clog' just because it looks like one to me :). Couldn't find any support for this idea though. An even more fanciful idea: 'clogging' is also a form of entertainment practiced by industrial weavers: tapping their clogs to the rhythm of a weaving shuttle. Could a 'clogging workloom' be a colloquial term for a type of loom that people 'clogged' to? ;)
Be interested to read more informed theories.
Mike
Hello Mike
So nice to see a picture of your big smile, always makes me smile in return.
You have certainly posed some good question to think about.
It must be a tool of some sought - of what type, maybe that will always be unknown
Cheers Karen
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His debtors might have been his customers. The wife's debt was a bit odd though.
Being a yeoman didn't necessarily mean he was a farmer.
Where did he live?
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Apparently workloom was term occasionally used to mean tools.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/workloom
So - might it be tools associated with making clogs :-\ :-\
Hello JenB
Thank you. That is interesting.
Seems that it is a tool of some description and not a handloom as I had assumed.
Cheers
Karen
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His debtors might have been his customers. The wife's debt was a bit odd though.
Being a yeoman didn't necessarily mean he was a farmer.
Where did he live?
Hello Maiden Stone
He lived in Saddleworth. The inventory mentions an item 'for shop goods' owing to him from an unstated person, valued a 2 pounds 14 shillings and 9 pence.
Yes, isn't it odd that his wife was listed as a debtor. Although my father-in-law's will of 1987, listed his wife as a debtor.
Cheers
Karen
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Is the word oil in the line above "clogging workloom" ? The South Pennines History Group glossary mentions the use of oil in weaving; I couldn't find it in the list when I looked again.
If the loom(s) is/ are in the list of debts, perhaps they belonged to him and were being used by weavers who did work for him in their own home(s),
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Hello Maiden Stone
The line above the cloging workloome is 'our glasses and oyll measures' which I think is hour glasses and oil measures are perhaps containers with a spout for storing oil. These were also listed as items that someone owed to him.
I had a search of the glossary for oil and couldn't find it either, but incidentally came across the word quishion, which is a cushion. There is a word in the inventory that looks like quishon listed with the couch chear. So I think that is one more word transcribed.
Thank you for your help
Cheers
Karen
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Is the word oil in the line above "clogging workloom" ? The South Pennines History Group glossary mentions the use of oil in weaving; I couldn't find it in the list when I looked again.
If the loom(s) is/ are in the list of debts, perhaps they belonged to him and were being used by weavers who did work for him in their own home(s),
Hi Maiden Stone
the reference to oil in the glossery under C for Cistern (Sistron):
Often 'oil cistern' in Marsden inventories (oil was used to treat wool, or could have been for lighting).
Cheers
Karen
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Apparently workloom was term occasionally used to mean tools.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/workloom
So - might it be tools associated with making clogs :-\ :-\
Hello JenB
Thank you. That is interesting.
Seems that it is a tool of some description and not a handloom as I had assumed.
Also supported by Bookbox in reply #17 :)
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If you have more words you are not sure of Karen, why don't you post them on here?
We shall do our best to help!
It's more than likely somebody would probably have come across them before - discounting 'cloging workloom' by the sound of it! :)
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H goldie61
Thank you, will start a new thread.
I found this site to be invaluable. In fact, without RootsChat there would be no need for me to transcribe probates as I don't think I would have gone much past the 1841 census without the help of so many kind people.
Cheers
Karen