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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: ANGIE81 on Thursday 15 June 17 12:24 BST (UK)
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Hi im trying to find a marriage between an owen rowlands born 1786 to catherine ??? the only one i can find is to a catherine williams, 27th sep 1827 but this would be 4 years after their first child was born? I have the family on census in 1841 in caernarfon. would love some help with it, trying to find catherines surname or any more info on owen such as parents. thanks in advance.
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Hi
Not got the marriage but a christening gives her surname as Roberts.
Rowland 22.4. born 11.4 1836 from Llanberis s of Owen and Catherine nee Roberts Garddbach quarryman
Llanberris Jerusalem Chapel
Does that help?
Ciderdrinker
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Ooohh thankyou very much, Ciderdrinker x
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So is that Rowland Rowlands? the child who was christened?
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Hi also the baptism of Margaret 17th February 1822 Llanberis gives Owen with his wife Catherine Roberts.
Keyboard86
PS surname shown as Rowland.
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hiya yes surname varies rowland, rowlands, how many children did you find I have 4. x
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Robert 25th September 1825
Owen 23td May 1828 buried 9th December 1828 Llanberis
Owen Rowland Rowland 11th October 1829
Elizabeth 27th November 1831
Keyboard86
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Thanks ever so much keyboard 86, I didn't have the 1st baby owen or elizabeth. I am working off the 1841 census which has the other children on and my 3 xgt grandfather thomas on. x
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Apologies I was confused thomas married Elizabeth who is my 3xgt grandmother. So I did have Elizabeth after checking back. This family history is so confusing :) thanks guys for your help today, still seeking the marriage.
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Hi there is a burial in Llanberis of an Elizabeth Rowlands 27th July 1844 aged 12
Keyboard86
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My Elizabeth married Thomas Davies in Liverpool in 1852, and the family line went down from there. I'm still in Liverpool now. I've no chance of finding Thomas Davies line as he just states wales on the census and theres loads of them haha.
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Hi have you the marriage certificate of Thomas Davies to Elizabeth Rowlands 1852 Liverpool as the baptism of the Elizabeth to Owen & Catherine I supplied states they were living at Bryn Fforch, the burial is address Bryn Fforch, and the family unit were living in 1841 census at Bryn y Fforch?
Keyboard86
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The family was still at Bryn y Fforch in 1851 - HO107 2515 242 21
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ohh no now im really confused, I dont have access to my ancestry at the moment only FindMyPast and im struggling a bit with that site. Ive screenshot the children elizabeth nee rowland and thomas davies have i will try to attatch it here. I think elizabeth and thomas married 14th nov 1852 in liverpool. states owen rowland as father and on census which im struggling to find on FindMyPast, shows she was from wales.
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FindMyPast - try Roulands, not Rowlands
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here is screen shot
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Hi again can confirm that Elizabeth was not with Owen & Catherine in 1851 Bryn Y Fforch, having problems with Elizabeth you have from 1861, what year of birth/place of birth does she give?
Keyboard86
EDIT i have located a marriage 1st December 1852 Liverpool St David of a Thomas Davies to an Elizabeth Rowlands he was a Mariner, the father of Elizabeth is Owen Rowlands but the occupation is not that of Copper Miner /Miner or similar, could even possibly be a Steward?
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OK think I have located your tree from 1861/1881 as example 1871 census :-
Thomas Davies 47 occ Collector b Liverpool
Elizabeth 38 b ( on original something like TREGAEN )
Thomas 16
John O 9
Hugh R 8
Hannah J 3
Owen R 2
Joseph H 1
Residing Hamilton Road, Everton, West Derby
Census ref RG10/3819/132/11
1881 Mcleod Street, Everton
Census ref RG11/3668/67/36
1861 Beresford Street, Everton
Census ref RG09/2711/73/32
So all in all the fact Elizabeth does not state in the 1871 example Llanberis rings alarm bells as to whether you have correct father at least?
Would point out however that the Elizabeth in 1841 census with Owen & Catherine was aged 8 not 10.
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Wondered if "Tregaen" was an attempt to capture "Tregaian " (Llangefni)?
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ohh no so i have the total wrong parents for Elizabeth? back to trying to find them :'(
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ohh no so i have the total wrong parents for Elizabeth? back to trying to find them :'(
Wish I could offer any more advice at present but that marriage in 1852 suggests indeed a different possible Owen as the father of Elizabeth?
Even the children do not seem to follow any of her siblings if indeed the Elizabeth b 1831 Llanberis, who I do believe died 1844 was her?
Have you Thomas Davies 27 b Liverpool in 1851, as I have occ Mariner with a father Thomas ( as marriage) in Pwllheli, Caernarvonshire are these his parents?
Census ref HO107/2574/240/7
What happened to Thomas/Elizabeth and children post 1881 census?
Keyboard86
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Wondered if "Tregaen" was an attempt to capture "Tregaian " (Llangefni)?
Baptisms (FindMyPast image/transcription)
Name - Elizabeth; Birth Date 17 Dec 1831; Baptism date - 25 Dec 1831; Birth Parish - Tregayan; Baptism place - Gosen Calvinistic Methodist, Llangwyllog, Anglesey; parents Owen Rowland (no "s"), occpn labourer and Elizabeth Jones; Parent's residence Tyn y Gate.
"Father's Parish before Marriage" has been scored through (I think it could be Tregaian) but I cannot make out the replacement parish - looks like "C...dffari"?
Llangwyllog just a stone's throw from Tregaian.
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Mother's Parish of Birth - Bodffari?
Father's parish - just "Ce ...." (the "ffari" is an overlap from mother's parish of birth
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Hugh Rowland (no "s"), born 23 Sep 1834, bap Oct 26 1834, Gosen Chapel, Tregauan,
Owen Rowland - parish of Birth "Ceidio" - Pwlleli; Elizabeth Rowland, maiden name Jones - parish of birth "Bodfari".
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Wondered if "Tregaen" was an attempt to capture "Tregaian " (Llangefni)?
Hi looking at the possible baptsms of Elizabeth and Hugh, I initially thought yes this must be a good chance of being her, Owen appears to have died prior to 1841 census, as this appears to be some of the family in Church Street, Llangefni :-
Elizth Rowlands 40
Hannah 15
Ann 15
Elizth 8
HO107/1360/ 8/4 / 1
1851 census :-
Elizabeth Rowlands 50 Widow occ Mangler b Amlwch
Hugh 16 b Tregaian
Thomas Phelps 2 Grandson b London
Elizabeth Phelps 3 Granddaughter b London
Residing Church Street, Llangefni
Census ref HO107/2520/30/15
It is in 1861 when Elizabeth snr states she is a Mangler widow of Agricultural Labourer
Residing Church Street, Llangefni
Census ref RG09/4362/51/9
Keyboard86
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I had looked at the '41 family at Church Street.
Cannot understand why I hadn't posted details of the baptism of Anne Rowlands (with an "s"), 16 Feb 1825, abode Gate House (Tyn y Gate in Welsh), Tregaean, father Owen labourer, mother Elizabeth.
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Checked Owen's burial -
Owen Rowland, Gate House, Tregaean, buried 3 Sep 1835, age 39, place Llanfihangel Trer Beirdd
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Hi all I've been reading over all the info you have sent me and joined ancestry again as well as find my past and for the life of me i cant find the census on them sites. where did you find the info? much appreciated x
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Hi again give me an example of which census you have tried to locate which family, the Rowland/s or Davies?
Keyboard86
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The one's which have been posted in this chat the 1841 rowlands after owen rowland passed away and the later ones where eliz is widowed.
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Have you Thomas Davies 27 b Liverpool in 1851, as I have occ Mariner with a father Thomas ( as marriage) in Pwllheli, Caernarvonshire are these his parents?
Census ref HO107/2574/240/7
Also the above where did you find the info? And how do I use the census ref? xx
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The one's which have been posted in this chat the 1841 rowlands after owen rowland passed away and the later ones where eliz is widowed.
I can assist, but please tell me where the family of Thomas & Elizabeth were after 1881?
Keyboard86
PS I use mainly FindMyPast for census searches, re census refs go into relevant census year and scroll down until you see PIECE FOLIO PAGE , and put in the numbers I have given.
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everton lancashire after 1881
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everton lancashire after 1881
;D I think I knew that, just show me a census in 1891 with one of them on, I am not perfect but could not locate with any confidence??
Keyboard86
Try the census ref tip, slightly different for the 1841 census
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RG 12/2955 thats John owen davies, thomas's son on 1891 census. I have no further than 1881 on thomas's also no death record for him x
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Wondered if "Tregaen" was an attempt to capture "Tregaian " (Llangefni)?
Hi looking at the possible baptsms of Elizabeth and Hugh, I initially thought yes this must be a good chance of being her, Owen appears to have died prior to 1841 census, as this appears to be some of the family in Church Street, Llangefni :-
Elizth Rowlands 40
Hannah 15
Ann 15
Elizth 8
HO107/1360/ 8/4 / 1
1851 census :-
Elizabeth Rowlands 50 Widow occ Mangler b Amlwch
Hugh 16 b Tregaian
Thomas Phelps 2 Grandson b London
Elizabeth Phelps 3 Granddaughter b London
Residing Church Street, Llangefni
Census ref HO107/2520/30/15
It is in 1861 when Elizabeth snr states she is a Mangler widow of Agricultural Labourer
Residing Church Street, Llangefni
Census ref RG09/4362/51/9
Keyboard86
OK I can locate John O from 1891 until 1911 in Saker Street, Everton, he married an Ellen Riley in 1886 West Derby, the fact that the 1871 census for Elizabeth and that of the Hugh above, suggests Tregaian needs to be looked into, it is only the occupation of Owen that at marriage to Thomas Davies and the above for her possible mother that differs?
Who were the parents of the "Phelps" Grandchildren?
Keyboard86