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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: mlmcholm on Monday 04 September 17 16:51 BST (UK)
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I am trying to locate a baptism record for William Rigby (my 3x great grandfather) who according to his death record of 1859 was born in 1804. In the 1851 census of Preston his place of birth is Woodplumpton, however his d o b works out as 1809. I have been reliably informed that RC records are hard to find, so I was wondering if some kind person on here can point me in the right direction. Many thanks
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This may help
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Woodplumpton#Churches
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You might find the following of interest:
https://archive.org/stream/lancashireregist15cath?ref=ol#page/352/mode/2up
Page 352
jds1949
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What a great on line record to know about jds.
It looks like there is a marriage bond on the Ancestry site for the parents of this child -- George Rigby, Weaver of Woodplumpton and Nancy Thistleton. Bond signed 5 April 1796.
The couple married at St Michael on Wyre - (which is near to Woodplumpton). Hence there may be more children born before (and after) William whose baptisms should appear in Roman Catholic records.
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Thanks jds1949. That's fantastic. I've translated a few of the words, but what does (prot) mean after the name Anne? Amazing! I'm extremely grateful
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Thanks again Pennines. Not sure how to send pm on here. What a great piece of information from jds what would I have done without you two!
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Would Nancy be another name for Anne? Just found all the baptisms for Children of George and Anne Thistleton. The first being James 1799. All on familysearch!
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I assume that [Prot] is short for Protestant - so Ann/Nancy was not a Catholic. At that time she would have had to promise to bring up the children of the marriage as Catholics if the Catholic church were to recognise the marriage. If you go onto page 355 [just click on the right hand page] there is another baptism for this couple and George has Cath. after his name and Ann again has Prot. which would seem to confirm that. It also confirms her maiden name as Thistleton. There are also baptisms for the children of a Nicholas and Catherine Rigby - presumably relatives. In fact, having had a closer look there are at least two further baptisms for other children of George and Ann - it's worth having a good look at all of the entries in the register to see how many more there are.
jds1949
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Thanks a million jds1949 for the information, it's fantastic. No doubt the 'mixed marriage' would have caused controversy!
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Mimcholm -- in reply to your query about Nancy being another name for Ann -- yes it was a nickname - but could also be a name in it's own right.
Actually Ann can be quite a nuisance of a name - you can have Anne, Annie, Nancy, Nanny, Anna, Hannah! However it would be boring if it went smoothly!
The amazing register posted by jds 1949 is definitely worth looking through for other family members.
I didn't know such a resource was on line and I have bookmarked the site (thank you jds 1949).
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Just another point from this correspondence Mimcholm -- I notice you changed William's possible birth year from 1804 to 1809 --- was this because of the age given on the 1841 census I wonder?
Please forgive me if you already know this -- but in 1841 (the first census with names) -- the ages of people over 15 were rounded DOWN to the nearest 5 years - or should have been. Not all Enumerators abided by or understood this rule! Children under 15 should be shown at their correct age (ie age last birthday)
As a result on the 1841 census anyone --- say aged between 21 and 24 will be shown as aged 20 --- anyone 36 to 39 will be shown as aged 35 and so on. From 1851 onwards the ages shown should all be age last birthday. It was only in 1841 that the 'rounding down' occurred.
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Hi Pennines and Mimcholm,
The Open Library has a number of Catholic Record Society registers - as well as a lot more - see:
https://openlibrary.org/read
and browse away to your heart's content - seriously habit forming!
Regards,
jds1949
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Thank you jds 1949 --- do you know I have used the open library often just for Lancashire Parish Registers - as there are lots of ebooks of them on that site. Never once has it crossed my tiny mind that there may be RC registers on there.
My really grateful thanks for that information.
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Thank you jds1949. Wonder if you or Pennines can help me on this one. What importance to the family would be a witness to the marriage? On 3 out of the 4 marriages for Rigby's between 1796 and 1800 at St Michael on Wyre, there is the same witness listed, John Threlfall. Would this be significant? Is there a possibility that all 4 Rigby's are siblings? Thanks again
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Hi,
John Threlfall was the Parish Clerk during those dates - he was one of the witnesses at almost all of the marriages - so not significant from a family point of view.
As to whether all the Rigby marriages are the same family, I think you would have to cross check the names with the Catholic register I cited earlier. George Rigby was identified as from Catforth as was Elizabeth Rigby, John Rigby was from Woodplumpton, as was Nicholas Rigby.
jds1949
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Just noticed that Frances Howard witnessed the marriages of Nicholas and Elizabeth, which suggests a family link.
jds1949
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I am just writing to confirm what jds 1949 has already said - as I don't want you to think I am ignoring your query!
When you see a page of marriages in a Parish Register -- just quickly glance through them at the witnesses. You will usually notice the same names cropping up regularly, meaning these witnesses were Church officials (after all they could usually read and write, whilst not many of our own ancestors could way back then.)
This isn't to say that a relative would never witness a marriage in the 18th or early 19th century -- if a witness had the same surname as the bride or groom, they would certainly be worth investigating as a possible relative.
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Thanks a million jds1949 for the information, it's fantastic. No doubt the 'mixed marriage' would have caused controversy!
I've just browsed through those registers and they seemed to be fairly common. The Rigby marriage (1790s?) was after Penal Laws against Catholics were relaxed, so there wasn't as great a disadvantage to marrying a Catholic as there had been previously. Bear in mind that Catholics accounted for a sizeable proportion of the population of Lancashire, particularly the Fylde. People of different religious denominations would have been neighbours, friends and relatives.
Check if any of the marriage witnesses turn up as godparents (sponsors).
There may have been 2 marriage ceremonies, the legal one in the parish church and an unofficial R.C. one, although maybe not if only 1 partner was Catholic. If there were 2 weddings, witnesses may have been different.