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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Wednesday 13 September 17 22:04 BST (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
I wonder whether there is anyone who is privy to the Brightlingsea PR's who could have a quick look to see whether there are any rites of passage for a John FLEMMING, variously "mariner" or "smack owner". In the Censuses he is there between 1841 and 1891 and is married to a Mathilda, who I think pre-deceases him before he himself dies at the aged of 87 in 1898. If there are any baptisms of children or indeed a marriage for these two here or nearby, I would be very grateful to whoever finds these...
Many thanks, Keith
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I haven't been able to find a birth or marriage for John but have found the baptisms in Brightlingsea for the following children, parents John and Martha. John's occupation is given as Oyster Dredger
Elizabeth 1813
Kezia 1816
Ann 1821
James 1827
George 1829
Emeline 1833 (born 1831)
No church is given for Elizabeth and Kezia. All the other children are nonconformist baptisms at the New Jerusalemite Swedenborgian Chapel, Waterside Lane.
Emeltom
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I have just found another baptism on FreeReg
John baptised All Saints Brightlingsea 1811
Also
Marriage
John Fleming/Martha Woods
26 Oct 1805 St James Little Clacton
John is of Brightlingsea and Martha Little Clacton
Baptism
Martha Woods 1790 Little Clacton parents William and Mary
Emeltom
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Emelton,
Thanks so much for unearthing those for me, very kind of you indeed!
keith
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As you obviosly have Essex ancestors you might be interested in this site. They have transcribed baptisms for Brightlingsea but no John Flemming unfortunately, only his son.
essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk
Emeltom
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John was a widower in 1891
So far, the only death for his wife I can see is
Sep 1883 Tendring 4a 217
Flemming, Esther Matilda
age 69
And the only marriage possibility I've found was at Hammersmith St Paul
4 August 1847
John Fleming (father John)
+
Esther Matilda Cook (father James)
From FamilySearch, where they may also seem to have indexed the banns (where he is John Flemming)
Unless this couple can be found elsewhere could it be a possibility, even though in London? (perhaps she was working there?)
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John Fleming was still alive in 1901 in Brightlingsea, age 90
Brother in law to John W Taylor. Wife Julia A Taylor, both 69
Possible marriage for them?
Marriage June 1858 Lexden 4a 407
Cooke, Julia Agnes
Taylor, John William
Indexed on FamilySearch
6 May 1858, at Brightlingsea Wesleyan Methodist Church
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Baptism at Brightlingsea
16 Nov 1831
Julia Agnes
Dr. of James + Ann Cook
abode Brightlingsea
father a Fisherman
Image of BT is here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLS-PH3?i=1169&cc=1465710&cat=488845
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Baptism at Brightlingsea
3 October 1813
Esther Matilda
Dr. of James and Anne Cook
abode Brightlingsea
father a Fisherman
Image of BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLS-PSW?i=958&cc=1465710&cat=488845
John
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Going back to your original post you say Martha predeceases John as he dies aged 87 in 1898. That gives a birth year of 1811 and refers to John and Martha's son John born 1811.
John and Martha appear together in the 1841 Census ( HO107/338/7/F50)
Martha is a widow in 1851 working as housekeeper to a William Morris in Brightlingsea, a Doctor.
(HO107/1782/F124/p5)
In 1861 she is still in Brightlingsea living with an Emmeline Sparling who I believe is her daughter.
(RG9/1101/F118/p24)
In 1871 she is still there and still with daughter Emmeline
(RG10/1689/F88/p19)
Deaths
John Flemming Mar 1845 Lexden & Winstree Union vol 12 p 110 aged 67 (Gives yob as 1778)
Martha Flemming Mar 1876 Lexden & Winstree Union vol 4a p233 age 87 (Gives yob 1789)
Emeltom
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...and thanks so much for all that extra research on my behalf, John! That possible London marriage is particularly interesting. Much food for thought...
Keith
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Wow! (our posts crossed in the ether just now), I'm going to get hold of a piece of paper now and write all these references down and try and connect them properly, as I'm getting thoroughly confused - between my Matilda's and my Martha's, for one thing!
Very many thanks again, Emelton....
Keith
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...have now had time to digest the info and have a think about things...the most remarkable thing is that the 1898 death entry on FreeBMD for a John FLEMMING does not seem to be the man I was looking for, as he is there larger than life still at the ripe old age of 90, living in the household of his dead wife's sister, Julia Agnes in that 1901 Census entry. Interesting too that he is on outdoor parish relief. Surprising too that I now cannot find a death entry for him aged 90-plus years beyond 1901.
I would say that that 1847 Hammersmith marriage for him to Esther Matilda looks exactly right to me, though the subsequent absence of children to the couple would obviously mean I've been barking up the wrong family tree, unless of course John FLEMMING sowed a few illegitimate wild oats some time before that date! Maybe as a mariner he did indeed visit a few other places and people other than in Brightlingsea as a younger, virile man...
Perhaps my imagination is getting the better of me...
Keith