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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: isk on Monday 25 September 17 16:28 BST (UK)
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I am hoping that someone can help with this please. I have a birth for Agnes Shilland Davren at 20 Dickson Street, Leith, on 21 January 1891- Father: Arthur Davren, Dyer, Mother: Catherine McDiarmid, Birth registered by Catherine Davren - Mother. Parents married 24 August, 1889 in Inverness.
I cannot, however, find this marriage. I have Catherine McDairmid's birth, 14/1/1864 in Inverness, when her surname is spelt McDermaid - Father: Angus McDermaid Mother: Elizabeth McLeod and Catherine's death 19/10/1944 also in Inverness.
It is the Davren name I am researching and I need to see the Marriage Certificate for his parents names to ensure it is the correct Arthur Davren.
I will be most grateful for any help or direction. isk
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Hi ,
The 1891 Census in Cheshire England has -
Arthur Devren 36 glove dyer
Catherine Devren 25
Agnes Devren 0
All born Scotland
Can't see a likely marriage in Scotland :-\
ev
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Hello ev
Many thanks for such a quick response. I was afraid this might be the case. isk
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Have had a look also but cannot see anything obvious. The only Arthur Davren marriage is in 1898 to Annie Gow in Maryhill. I do not know if you spotted that Agnes Shilland's birth is registered twice- in Leith South and Blackfriars, Glasgow. This could mean they were either resident in Leith or Glasgow and the baby was born in Glasgow or Leith. You get double registrations where the place of birth is different from the place of residence (in theory). From the index entries it would appear that the Davren surname in concentrated in the Glasgow Area in this period. There is also a birth for a Agnes Shilling in Dennistoun in 1900.
Eric
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Can't see any obvious marriage either, but I think your Arthur Davren may be the son of Arthur Davren/Devlan/Devlin/Develin, who married Agnes Shilland in 1846 in Glasgow.
Here they are in 1851 in Barony (spellings as per FreeCen transcription):
- Arthur Develin, head, 27, weaver, Kilbarchan, Renfrew
- Agnes Davelin, wife, 23, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Margaret Davelin, daughter, 10m, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
And in 1861, Glasgow Bridgeton (spellings as per Ancestry transcription):
- Arthur Doulin, head 32, carpet weaver, Kilbarchan, Renfrew
- Agnes Doulin, wife 32, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Margaret, Doulin, daughter, 10, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Alexander Doulin, son, 8, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Arthur Doulin, son, 6, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Agnes Doulin, daughter, 5, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Elizabeth Doulin, daughter, 1, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
There is a birth for an Elizabeth Devlin, to Arthur Devlin and Agnes Shilland in 1859, Glasgow Calton; and an Agnes Devlin to the same couple, Glasgow Bridgeton in 1857.
And in 1871, Glasgow Calton (spellings as per Ancestry transcription):
- Arthur Davren, 42, glove dyer (master), Kilbarchan, Renfrew
- Agnes Davren, 42, glove dyer’s wife, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Margaret Davren, 20, tailoress, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Arthur Davren, 16, glove dyer and cleaner, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Agnes Davren, 16, tailoress, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- Elizabeth Davren, 12, Glasgow Lanarkshire
- William Davren, 10, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
- John Davren, 7, Perth, Perthshire
There’s a birth for a John Devlin, to Arthur Devlin and Agnes Shilland in 1864 in Perth; and a William Douglas Devlin in 1861 in Glasgow Bridgeton.
Can't obviously see any of the family in 1881, but with such variation in spelling, it's a bit of a thankless task ::)
Ruth
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Thank you Eric and Ruth for your replies. As you say the variations in spelling makes for interesting research. This family tree, for a surprise at a 70th birthday celebration in November, is the first research which I have tackled from just a birth certificate, knowing nothing more about the subject. It has made me ever more thankful for, Scottish BMD certificates and my close proximity to Glasgow and the Genealogy Centre in the Mitchell Library. I will take time to absorb all this information on Wednesday, as ironing and a wonderful apple crop must be dealt with tomorrow. I really am most grateful for your time and interest. isk
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Hi,
This may be of interest as it contains McDiarmid/McDermaid (Inverness-shire)
http://www.inmygenes.me.uk/boag.html
Found while searching for something else!
You need to scroll to 2nd heading "Janets Grandparents were" then further down.
Annie
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Hi Isk, Ruth and other responders to the above forum.
I hope this can get to at least one of you as I see the post is a few years old.
My name is Samantha Tunstall (maiden name DAVREN) I Live in Queensland, Australia, but have been searching for my heritage in Glasgow Scotland for many years.
And I believe you have found my family.
I have searched for the Davren family name for over 8 years but have always come to a block and got nowhere fast thanks to the ever changing variations of the last name.
Growing up I was told the spelling had been changed somewhere along the line as the family were convicts trying to escape the law. (for what reason no one has ever known)
I was never too sure if that was the entire truth or an old family tale that was passed down.
Then My Granddad John Davren passed away a few years ago and I decided to search the family History again. He was the most brilliant, honest and wise and kind hearted man I have ever met and was very proud to be a DAVREN. (and raise Future Davren's once he arrived in Australian to live a happy life) He didn't like his father or his grandfather. they drank which led to them hitting their wives and children and by the sounds of it changed their name more than once to escape something. His passing and the fact that the DAVREN name could die when my brother leaves this earth as he is the very last male that could possibly pass it down now gave me great inspiration to try again. But I could never get any further back than finding out where my Great Grandfather was born because I was unaware of the name variations.
Until tonight when I came across your post here and I'm 100% sure that the 7 year old boy John Davren from Perth, Perthshire from 1871 Glasgow Calton is my great grandfather. And I know that his older brother William was my grandads uncle because he had a brother called billy (William) and as per Scottish tradition it is an honour to name your first born child or children after yourself
So I am asking for some help if any of you see this post. Please help me to finish what I started 8 long years ago. You all have already made my heart swell with happiness that I came across this post and have found more information than I have ever been able to obtain about my family History,
so please if you have anymore information or advice you could give me as to where to look, I would be forever in your debt,
Thank you kindly
I will leave with the information I have and why I am convinced you have found the right Davren family. Something I have always failed to do. So even if no one gets back to me or there is no more history to be found. Thank you from the bottom of my heart (and my Dads heart, who has failed to find anything informative himself over the many years)
*My name is Samantha Josephine Tunstall (Maiden Name) Davren born 13/03/1987: Born Berwick, Vic, Australia
*I Have a brother whose name is Bradley John Davren born 21/08/1985: Born Vic, Australia
*Our parents are Suzanne April Davren (MN) Bysouth: Born 16/03/1960 Born Victoria, Australia
*and John James Davren: Born 07/07/1959: Born in Glasgow
John James Davren's Sister Patricia Brumby (MN) Davren: Born 10/09/1962
*Their parents and my grandparents Patricia Davren (MN) Parks: Born I Think 18/12/1935? and John Davren: Born 16/02/1936 in Glasgow before coming to Australia to live via boat in 1962 or 1963.
John Davren passed away In Caloundra Hospice care home in Queensland, Australia in January 2013 just 1 month shy of his 77th Birthday.
My dad has also mentioned he thinks the name of the boat that his sister and parents came to Australia on was called Fairsky or Fairs pacific . My dad says he was around 3 years old and his sister was around 1.5 years old
Thank you again
Samantha Tunstall
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Hi Samantha
I will happily go back and look out my Davren research. It won't be before the weekend I'm afraid but I will be in touch then. isk
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I know that his older brother William was my grandads uncle because he had a brother called billy (William) and as per Scottish tradition it is an honour to name your first born child or children after yourself.
That is not the case.
The tradition is
First daughter after mother's mother, first son after father's father.
Second son after mother's father, second daughter after father's mother
Third son after father, third daughter after mother
So you only name a child after yourself it it is the third, not the first born, of its sex.
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If your grandfather was born in 1936 then it is unlikely your great grandfather was born in 1871. Although it is an unusual name, there are quite a few Davren births, deaths and marriages in the Scottish records at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Also quite a few in the Glasgow electoral rolls. You need to work back from what you know. You could start with your grandparents marriage or if you are completely sure that your grandfather was born in 1936 then you could order up his birth certificate. That will give you the names of both his parents and the date and place of their marriage. You can then obtain their marriage certificate which will give you their ages ( and hence year of birth) and the names of their parents. It is then a question of working back systematically. Once you are back past 1911 you can also make use of census information.
Looking at the 1936 birth it is registered in the district of Camlachie, Glasgow. There looks to be a distinct Davren grouping in that area. There is a possible marriage in 1935 that could be his parents ( but you would need to confirm this with documents).
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Here are the birth and marriage references from Scotlandspeople.
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Your family arrived in Fremantle from Aden on board the Fairsea on 26th March 1963. There is a shipping list on Ancestry. Two Persons named John and two named Patrick ( mistranscription for Patricia).
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Your family arrived in Fremantle from Aden on board the Fairsea on 26th March 1963. There is a shipping list on Ancestry. Two Persons named John and two named Patrick ( mistranscription for Patricia).
That is just incredible, thank you very much for that information
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Am I right in thinking your grandfather John had a brother called William? Do you know if he was older or younger? Were there any other brothers and sisters that you are aware of.
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Am I right in thinking your grandfather John had a brother called William? Do you know if he was older or younger? Were there any other brothers and sisters that you are aware of.
Hi, I think I have been told that Billy (William) was older by a few years infact I think out of the 6 kids Grandad was the youngest, but I will ask my dad the age rank in the morning.
He then had another 4 siblings. Jess, Sarah (known as Sadie) Helen, and Alex
I also found out tonight from my Aunty that she is more than certain that my Grandads Parents were John And Sarah Davren
I also got word from my brother that my Father is the 4th John Davren, so I know as far up as my Great Great Grandfather, was Also A John Davren
and thank you again
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Here are the birth and marriage references from Scotlandspeople.
Thank you, Thank you
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You definitely need to start on Scotlands People with purchasing the birth certificate of your grandfather John Davren b.1936 Camlachie to definitely determine the names of his parents.
If, for instance, it was as you suggest and that his parents were a John and Sarah there is only one marriage between a John Davren (indexed on SP as Davrin although quite clearly Davren on marriage certificate (had a few credits left) - however, this John wasn't the son of a John!
John Davren, Motor Lorry Driver, 23, son of Arthur Davren and Helen Hosie and Sarah Cunningham Winning, 20, dau. of George Winning and Annie Cunningham, married 12/6/1931 Calton, Glasgow.
So, this dispels the belief that you come from a long line of John's and also that your grandfather was the youngest of 6 since he was born 1936 and John and Sarah had only been married 5 years at this point.
However, the most important thing is to make sure you set off on the right foot and that is by purchasing a copy of your grandfather's 1936 birth certificate to definitely determine who his parents were. (It may indeed have been John and Sarah - who can say at this point - but family beliefs can get confused over the years . There are, for instance, 3 birth entries for a Helen Hosie Davren - one in 1921 Bridgeton (dau. of Arthur and Helen?), one in 1936 Provan (same year your grandfather born but different place) and the third in 1940 Bridgeton.
Annette
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That’s an interesting find, Annette as the only William I could see in that time period was a William Winning Davren who was born in 1945 in Camlachie. As you say, we really need the details off the birth certificate. Maybe someone visiting one of the Scotlandspeople centres would be willing to do a lookup.
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This is incredible, and Annette7 you are just amazing. Thank you
As I mentioned in a prior post I was only guesstimating the 6 siblings ages but definitely something I can have confirmed properly a few hours.
If, for instance, it was as you suggest and that his parents were a John and Sarah there is only one marriage between a John Davren (indexed on SP as Davrin although quite clearly Davren on marriage certificate (had a few credits left) - however, this John wasn't the son of a John!
I am quite convinced now of the parents being named John and Sarah, My Aunty is adamant that was their names and although I had never had the chance to meet her I do vividly remember hearing a lot about my Grandads sister Sadie.....she was ALWAYS referred to as Sadie because she did not like sharing the same name as her mother.....which was of course Sarah
John Davren, Motor Lorry Driver, 23, son of Arthur Davren and Helen Hosie and Sarah Cunningham Winning, 20, dau. of George Winning and Annie Cunningham, married 12/6/1931 Calton, Glasgow. So, this dispels the belief that you come from a long line of John's and also that your grandfather was the youngest of 6 since he was born 1936 and John and Sarah had only been married 5 years at this point.
This comment is also very interesting and very on point to the stories I have been told over the years about both my Grandad and his Father being lorry drivers.
And I am actually very very excited about the Arthur Davren comment because that is what led me to this forum in the first place "Missing marriage for Arthur Davren in Inverness"
over the years though all the dribs and dabs on information I have received or collected I always end with an Arthur Davren....and I can never get any further........I just always end up with an Arthur Davren. My brother could simply be mistaken on the 4 Johns. My grandad was a truely amazing human been but he never liked to talk about his past or upbringing so my family have always had limited information and never much to start with, at times it became a very big guessing game.
I have ordered my Grandads birth certificate just to confirm his parents, words can not even begin to thank you enough. My dad will truly be over the moon with all this new information
ANNETTE7 YOU ARE AN ANGEL 😇 👼
So I actually think you are spot on here
However, the most important thing is to make sure you set off on the right foot and that is by purchasing a copy of your grandfather's 1936 birth certificate to definitely determine who his parents were. (It may indeed have been John and Sarah - who can say at this point - but family beliefs can get confused over the years . There are, for instance, 3 birth entries for a Helen Hosie Davren - one in 1921 Bridgeton (dau. of Arthur and Helen?), one in 1936 Provan (same year your grandfather born but different place) and the third in 1940 Bridgeton.
Annette
[/quote]
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That’s an interesting find, Annette as the only William I could see in that time period was a William Winning Davren who was born in 1945 in Camlachie. As you say, we really need the details off the birth certificate. Maybe someone visiting one of the Scotlandspeople centres would be willing to do a lookup.
Thank you very much I am in the process of trying to obtain it right now. It could possibly just take a little longer than expected as I have never been on the site before so I am Just navigating my way though it. I'm sorry for the delay
Everybody always called him Billy, I guess it can be more than possible that his birth name may have been Billy. I always believed it was short for William but I could be completely mistaken.
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There are quite a few Arthur Davren births, mainly in Glasgow. They are probably all inter-related in some way ie brothers each calling a son Arthur in each generation. Looking at first names I suspect there is a link to John Davren and Jessie Carruthers who married in Glasgow in 1882. John seems to have been born around 1865 in Perthshire which would tie in with him possibly being the son of Arthur Davren and Agnes Shilland. It looks as if Arthur Davren who married Helen Hosie was the son of John Davren and Jessie Carruthers.
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Once you get the certificate please post the details on here and we will help you to navigate your way back on this family.
Annette
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Possible births for three of the siblings-
Jessie M born Bridgeton 1937
Sarah born Bridgeton 1932
Helen Hosie born Bridgeton 1940
Valuation Rolls 1935 and 1940 show a John Davren at 192 Dalmarnock Road, Bridgeton. Electoral rolls in that same period show a John and Sarah Davren living at that address.
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Hi Everyone,
thank you so much for all the hard work and the constant updates. It's just amazing.
I know we are all waiting on the birth certificate and I have been trying hard all day.
I am able to order it with out complications but I cannot pay for credits to receive it.
I have tried 4 bank accounts and PayPal but it seems my banks here in Australia keep denying the payments as they see it as an untrusted overseas account.
I have contacted my dad and he is going to see his mum today so has asked her has she still got Grandads birth certificate.....They are looking
It seems very unlikely and if she doesn't I have asked dad to try and buy credits with his bank card. Hopefully that too won't be denied.
I have also sent an email to support to see if there is another payment method but the reply can take 3 days.
Im very sorry for all the delay.
on the upside I have the siblings in order from eldest to youngest:
Sarah
Arthur
John
Jessie
William AKA Billy
Helen
Alec
My Aunty did tell me today that Alac Spent a good amount of his adult years in jail (possibly for embezzlement, unclear)
My Gran also told me some interesting facts today that I never knew.
My Grandads, Grandmother was married twice. With one of those marriages (more likely second) she took the sir name Wells.
And also I'm sure you counted 7 siblings above not 6, Gran told me today that there was in fact another brother Named Arthur who was a still born. Gran thinks that he may have been born between Sarah and John. So although Arthur was a stillborn, he should still have a registered birth.
And Lastly I did forget to mention earlier that my Grandad did spend many years in the Navy beginning around the age of 18-19 so perhaps about 1954-1955 onwards.
I hope these little details help to join the dots together
Thank you again.
I will keep you updated on Birth certificate, otherwise if anybody can recommend another site I would be able to get it that would be a big help
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Could the second marriage have been to a Mr Ward (not Wells). There is a marriage in 1940 in Bridgeton between Helen Davren or Hosie to a Thomas Ward. Helen was previously married to Arthur Davren in 1904 and they had a son John in 1907 who I believe to be the person who later married Sarah Cunningham Winning. Arthur Davren died in 1940 age 52. Helen Davren or Hosie or Ward died in Glasgow in 1965.
I think Arthur may actually have lived for a year. There is a birth in Bridgeton in 1934 followed by a death age 1 in Provan ( Glasgow) in 1935. The only other Arthur birth is in 1947 and I think that is the year Alexander was born ( in Camlachie). William Winning ( Billy) I think was born in 1945 in Camlachie. The other three births as I previously listed above. The only difference from your sequence is Helen but I think she has to be the one born in 1940 as there are no later births in the appropriate time period.
John Davren died in Bridgeton in 1963 age 56 and his wife Sarah died in Paisley in 1988 age 77.
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Could the second marriage have been to a Mr Ward (not Wells). There is a marriage in 1940 in Bridgeton between Helen Davren or Hosie to a Thomas Ward. Helen was previously married to Arthur Davren in 1904 and they had a son John in 1907 who I believe to be the person who later married Sarah Cunningham Winning. Arthur Davren died in 1940 age 52. Helen Davren or Hosie or Ward died in Glasgow in 1965.
I think Arthur may actually have lived for a year. There is a birth in Bridgeton in 1934 followed by a death age 1 in Provan ( Glasgow) in 1935. The only other Arthur birth is in 1947 and I think that is the year Alexander was born ( in Camlachie). William Winning ( Billy) I think was born in 1945 in Camlachie. The other three births as I previously listed above. The only difference from your sequence is Helen but I think she has to be the one born in 1940 as there are no later births in the appropriate time period.
John Davren died in Bridgeton in 1963 age 56 and his wife Sarah died in Paisley in 1988 age 77.
Yes I'm sorry I just went back and checked my notes and it was in-fact Webb not Wells. That's my mistake sorry.
Im sorry I still can't get the birth certificate, my dads bank wouldn't let him either. Would you happen to know any Australian sites I could obtain then from at all?
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If your John is who we think he is ie the son of John Davren and Sarah Cunningham Winning then one of his grandmothers - Helen Davren nee Hosie did remarry, but her husband was definitely called Ward. His other grandmother was Annie Winning nee Cunningham and she did not remarry.
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If your John is who we think he is ie the son of John Davren and Sarah Cunningham Winning then one of his grandmothers - Helen Davren nee Hosie did remarry, but her husband was definitely called Ward. His other grandmother was Annie Winning nee Cunningham and she did not remarry.
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Yes Helen remarried Thomas Ward in 1940, the same year her first husband Arthur Davren Died. And I'm guessing that's why I can't find any separation or divorce papers because it would have made her a widow. But I wasn't aware of the other Grandmother
ok so now this part is driving me crazy. I have been scratching my head wondering why my Grandad and all his siblings have the last name Davren but then William (billy) has the last name winnings.
only billy has their mothers maiden (Sarah Cunningham Winning) name while all the rest are Davren's
and because I still can't access their birth certificate's its all a guessing game right now.
I thought Maybe their father John died before birth so was unable to sign birth certificate but then I found not only had he died nearly 20 years later but Alec was born 2 years after William and was named a Davren.
So I thought maybe there was infidelity within the marriage and he was not a Davren. But the problem with that is Billy was the only sibling of my Grandads I ever met and if you were none the wiser you would swear they were identical twins. Right down to the same gold tooth, same smile, laugh and mannerisms. Billy died here in Sydney Australia years ago while he was visiting but for the life of me I cannot find a Death certificate.
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Sorry, I should have been clearer - Winning was William’s middle name. He was William Winning Davren.
I have just had a look at the death of one year old Arthur in 1935 and it confirms he was the son of John Davren, Motor Lorry Driver, and Sarah Cunningham Harkness Davren nee Winning. He died at Robroyston Hospital, but usual address was 192 Dalmarnock Road. He died of Bronco-Pneumonia and Enteritis. So not a still birth as you previously thought.
I wondered why I couldn’t find William’s death.
So it looks as if we have-
John born 1936
Son of John born 1907 and Sarah Winning
Grandson of Arthur born 1888 and Helen Hosie
Great grandson of John born 1865 (Perth) and Margaret Carruthers
Great/great grandson of Arthur Davren and Agnes Shilland
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DAVREN
JOHN SHILLAN
3
1918
644/1 894
Bridgeton
I Just found the above John Shillan Davren born 1915 died age 3 1918. Those years could still make him a candidate to be the son of Arthur Davren and Helen Hosie considering he shares a very similar name to what could possibly be his Great Grandparents Arthur Davren and Agness SHILLAND.
As per the picture I posted.
And again I'm torn about that because it was just yesterday afternoon out of nowhere my Gran said Grandads Grandmother was married a second time and took his last name Ward.....
oh boy I really need this documentation 😳
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Arthur and Helen’s son was definitely born in 1907. He is with them in the 1911 census. There were several different families of Davren all linking back to Arthur Davren and Agnes Shilland ( including that of Arthur Davren and Catherine McDermid who were the subjects of the original posting that you linked into). The name Shilland appears as a middle name on more than one occasion.
I have just checked the birth in 1907 of John Davren. He was born on 25/7/1907 at 28 Bellfield Street, Glasgow. Father Arthur Davren, Van Driver and Helen Davren nee Hosie who married 27/7/1906 in Glasgow. He is the one who married Sarah Winning per the marriage certificate posted by Annette. His age at death in 1963 was 55 which is a match.
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Sorry, I should have been clearer - Winning was William’s middle name. He was William Winning Davren.
I have just had a look at the death of one year old Arthur in 1935 and it confirms he was the son of John Davren, Motor Lorry Driver, and Sarah Cunningham Harkness Davren nee Winning. He died at Robroyston Hospital, but usual address was 192 Dalmarnock Road. He died of Bronco-Pneumonia and Enteritis. So not a still birth as you previously thought.
I wondered why I couldn’t find William’s death.
So it looks as if we have-
John born 1936
Son of John born 1907 and Sarah Winning
Grandson of Arthur born 1888 and Helen Hosie
Great grandson of John born 1865 (Perth) and Margaret Carruthers
Great/great grandson of Arthur Davren and Agnes Shilland
Oh thank you that's great information, its hard when I can't access any paperwork at all. But I am glad I reached the same order on my messy paperwork. It's very sad little Arthur died the same way his brother, my Grandad did all those years later. He declined so fast after a cancer diagnosis but I think it was the Bronco - phenomena that really took him in the end. And he had almost died as a young child from it aswell and it left a lot of scar tissue.
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Arthur and Helen’s son was definitely born in 1907. He is with them in the 1911 census. There were several different families of Davren all linking back to Arthur Davren and Agnes Shilland ( including that of Robert Davren and Mary Fisher who were the subjects of the original posting that you linked into). The name Shilland appears as a middle name on more than one occasion.
I have just checked the birth in 1907 of John Davren. He was born on 25/7/1907 at 28 Bellfield Street, Glasgow. Father Arthur Davren, Van Driver and Helen Davren nee Hosie who married 27/7/1906 in Glasgow. He is the one who married Sarah Winning per the marriage certificate posted by Annette. His age at death in 1963 was 55 which is a match.
Thank you for that confirmation, so does that mean that we could in-fact be related to the Davren's in the original posting. It is something I have been wondering since I found the post and also because its always because I can usually get no further into the family's history any time I reach an Arthur Davren. Over the years It seems to always blur into each other at that point
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Yes it looks very like it! Please note I have amended my last post as it should have said Arthur Davren and Catherine McDermid.
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Yes it looks very like it! Please note I have amended my last post as it should have said Arthur Davren and Catherine McDermid.
I just re read that post myself and if the original Arthur Davren is the son of Arthur and Agnes Shillard it would make him the brother to my Great, Great, Great Grandfather John Davren Who married Jessie Carruthers in 1882
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Yes that is how I read it as well.
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I have had a look at the 1911 census index and the family was as follows -
Arthur Davren 23
Helen Davren 25
Helen H Davren 5
John Davren 3
Alexander Davren 1
So it looks as if John had two siblings by 1911. Jessie was actually born before the marriage ( Jessie Hosie 1905). She married James Marshall in 1926 in Bridgeton ( indexed both as Jessie Hosie and Jessie Davren). She died in 1976 in East Kilbride.
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Is anyone able to help me locate a death date or record of any kind for my Grandads brother William (billy) Davren
He was bred, born and lived in Scotland his entire life. But he died here in Australia while on Holiday.
So I'm having a bit of trouble locating the information.
I also don't know if he was Buried in Australia or sent home.
It had to be between the years of 2000 and 2013.
Any help much appreciated
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Is anyone able to help me locate a death date or record of any kind for my Grandads brother William (billy) Davren
He was bred, born and lived in Scotland his entire life. But he died here in Australia while on Holiday.
So I'm having a bit of trouble locating the information.
I also don't know if he was Buried in Australia or sent home.
It had to be between the years of 2000 and 2013.
Any help much appreciated
Did he marry Eleanor?
DAVREN WILLIAM W MCGEACHIE ELEANOR MORTON 1965 644/3 175 Glasgow
added -(separated 1988) William's middle name is Winning married 27 March 1965
Her death
DAVREN ELEANOR MORTON Age 69 year 2013 ref no. 604/ 650 Glasgow, Martha St
Eleanor M Davren
Year 2002-06
Address 0/2, 58, Quarrywood Avenue, Glasgow, Glasgow, G21 3ES
Occupancy (years) 5
Other occupants A Brady
Record set Uk Electoral Registers & Companies House Directors 2002-2019
Can't see a death entry on SP for William W(inning) Darven ???
Edit - Did he remarry? Two entires SP 1989 Eastwood and Mearns / 1999 Glasgow, Martha St
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Hi, I just got off the phone to my dad who confirmed yes he married Eleanor but although they separated, Billy loved Eleanor very much and went back to her around 8 times after their separation. He doesn't believe that he ever got remarried.
From memory Dad thinks it was Eleanor who had him flown home from Sydney, Australia within 48 hours of his death, as it was Eleanor who wanted him buried at home and not in Australia. So although I can't say for certain, it doesn't sound like he re married
ADDED: I know he also had 2 children. A daughter (unsure of her name or year of birth) and also a son William Davren born maybe 1967-1970.
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I saw those other two marriages for William Winning Davren and actually wondered if it was maybe his son who was getting married. Strangely there is no birth for a William Davren after 1945 anywhere in Scotland. There was a William Winning .......... birth in Glasgow in 1968 but the surname doesn’t tie in.
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I think I possibly found his son's marriage as well to Georgette Cooper in 1999 Glasgow. Billy was visiting his son in Sydney, Australia when he sadly passed away. A William and Georgette married 1999 in Glasgow but did live in Sydney around that period and are currently still in Australia
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That fits, though still can’t see a birth for William jnr
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Billy was visiting his son in Sydney, Australia when he sadly passed away.
A W and G married 1999 in Glasgow but did live in Sydney around that period and are currently still in Australia
Are you in touch with Billy's son can they provide any details of Billy's death and funeral arrangements?
Perhaps they travelled back to the UK for the funeral?
That fits, though still can’t see a birth for William jnr
Neither can I ???
Could there have been another son born c 1972?
There's this death entry on SP and mmn is similar to Eleanor Morton MCGEACHIE apart from one letter :-\
Alexander DAVREN Age 42 MCGLACHIE 2014 590/ 633 Rutherglen
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Billy was visiting his son in Sydney, Australia when he sadly passed away.
A W and G married 1999 in Glasgow but did live in Sydney around that period and are currently still in Australia
Are you in touch with Billy's son can they provide any details of Billy's death and funeral arrangements?
Perhaps they travelled back to the UK for the funeral?
That fits, though still can’t see a birth for William jnr
Neither can I ???
Could there have been another son born c 1972?
There's this death entry on SP and mmn is similar to Eleanor Morton MCGEACHIE apart from one letter :-\
Alexander DAVREN Age 42 MCGLACHIE 2014 590/ 633 Rutherglen
My dad suggested yesterday trying to find him because he would love all this information on the family so I think I found a lead. I did message but am yet to hear back. Billy was the sibling we knew the best and dad did know Billy jr too, however he has said Billy only had 2 kids.....actually Dad said he doesn't know the daughters name or when and where she was born, maybe it was actually another Son
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I saw those other two marriages for William Winning Davren and actually wondered if it was maybe his son who was getting married. Strangely there is no birth for a William Davren after 1945 anywhere in Scotland. There was a William Winning .......... birth in Glasgow in 1968 but the surname doesn’t tie in.
That actually fits with the years my Dad said he would of been born 1967-1970. And Glasgow fits too,
Dad said Billy came over to Australia alot to work so I checked for a birth here but found nothing either
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I think we need to be careful of names relating to living/possible living persons for privacy reasons?
Annie
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Hi all,
I finally received Grandads birth certificate today and am happy to say we were right about his parents being John and Sarah. So thank you to everybody who helped with the research and helping me piece together my family history.
As I mentioned early on in the forum I was always led to believe Davren wasn’t the original surname, and with a lot of amazing help from a fantastic person, they were able to trace it back to the original name of Devlin, changed from either my 5th Great Grandfather Arthur or within his time.
We have yet to find out why the name was changed, and it seems he was able to do it without registration which makes it harder to trace. But hopefully the answers will come to light soon.
A big thank you to everyone once again
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Hi,
I've just come across this forum and thought I would get in touch as I'm William (Billy) Davrens daughter.
Would be great to connect to family members.
Thanks,
Lynda Davren