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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Elizlloyd on Tuesday 03 October 17 18:50 BST (UK)
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Hi
I searching for a birth / baptism for John Smith as Im stuck working further back on this Smith line and would welcome any help with this.
John Smith Married Elizabeth Jones 8th Feb 1796. St Mary's Church, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, which is close to Caldicot.
Edward Smith, 26 Jul 1804, Father John. Baptised St Bridget. St Bride's Netherwent.
Vere Smith Baptised 19 May 1806, St Bridget, St Bride's NetherwentElizabeth Smith 30 March 1817,
Elizabeth Smith 30 March 1817 Baptised St Bridget. St Bride's Netherwent;
Thanks
Elizlloyd
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there are other baptisms to the couple in St Bride's Netherwent
Ann bp 25 May 1823
Hannah bp 21 June 1818
Father John noted as labourer on both and abode as L(l)andevenny
There are burials in Magor, abode noted as L(l)andevenny on all
William Smith aged 4 months buried 10 June 1817 son of John & Elizabeth, transcription has Jas but register shows Jno.
Martha Smith aged 8 buried 9 May 1820
John Smith aged 65 buried 10 March 1825
Hannah Smith aged 28 buried 24 June 1846
Elizabeth Smith aged 88 buried 24 Nov 1862
1841 census Common, Llandevenny HO107/746/14 folio 2 pg 11
Elizabeth Smith 60
Thomas Smith 30 ag lab
both born in county
1851 Llandevenny, HO107/2451 folio 42 pg 16
Elizabeth Smith head widow 70 ag lab b. Magor
Thomas Smith son unm 40 ag lab b. Llandevenny
Hannah Smith granddau 16 b. Penhow
John Smith grandson 7 b. Magor
1861 Llandevenny RG9/4614 folio 39 pg 21
Elizabeth Smith head widow 88 farmeress of 19 acres b. Magor
Thomas son 51 ag lab b. Llandevenny
Hannah grand dau 24 dairy maid b. Penhow
John grandson 16 ag lab b. Penhow
Emma granddau 10 b. Risca
If this is the correct family, age at burial should give you something to work from.
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Hi Osprey,
Thank you very much for all your information in the post below, will add all this to my family's history a great find, and for John Smith's Burial and his date he was buried aged 65 buried 10 March 1825, being a labourer must have lived a hard life, and harder for his wife left behind having to support so many children.. and will calculate back to his birth date 1760 and hopefully find his parents and a birth/baptism record and place of birth for him.. and also come up with results.
Thanks ever so much
Elizlloyd
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Hi osprey,
I have found a Monmouthshire Baptism Transcription on Findmypast for a John Smith 19 August 1759 at St Mary, Monmouth son of Samuel and Ann. and wondered if this could be the right record for my John Smith.
Thanks
Elizlloyd
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it could be. Is there a son called Samuel? I haven't come across one yet so that makes the baptism look less likely.
:-\
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think I've found a more likely baptism in a nearer parish to St Brides Netherwent
John bp 30 May 1763 son of Thomas Smith in Llanfihangel juxta Roggiet
siblings also baptised in same parish
Edward bp 14 Feb 1758
Thomas bp 5 Oct 1759
Vere bp 7 July 1761
all names that appear in your John's family.
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Thanks osprey,
This definitely feels like this is the right baptism for John Smith 30 May 1763 Llanfihangel juxta Roggiet and father Thomas Smith and thanks for finding his siblings baptisms also in Llanfihangel juxta Roggiet as well a great find and really appreciate your post.
Thanks very much indeed.
Elizlloyd
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looks a match, doesn't it. Marriage of parents
Thomas Smith married Mary Taylor, a minor, 17 May 1756 in Magor by licence, both otp and by consent of Mary's guardian, witnesses Vere Smith and Richard Branson.
A possible for the Vere who was the witness is the Vere son of Edward Smith bp 5 Oct 1726 in Caldicot, so possible for Thomas son of Edward Smith bp 13 Nov 1729 also in Caldicot.
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Hi osprey,
Thank you for your information that you have supplied in your post much appreciated, and feel sure that this is right going back from Vere Smith baptised 5 Oct 1726 in Caldicot to father Edward smith and having finding Edward's other son Thomas Smith b 13 Nov 1729. So I will now look into finding more about the Smith family in Caldicot and more on Caldicot sounds very interestiing.
Thanks
Elizlloyd
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Hi osprey,
It would be great to find further information on Vere Smith's (baptised 5 Oct 1726 in Caldicot) and brother Thomas Smith (baptised 13 Nov 1729 in Caldicot) parents Edward Smith and his wife and their mother (first name and surname unknown. I would really welcome any help in finding their marriage. Thank you for all your help that you have given.
Many thanks
Elizlloyd
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The parish of Caldicot came into being in 1716. Marriage could be in one of the surrounding parishes. Haven't spotted it as yet.
There was also a daughter called Anne who was buried 8 Oct 1731.
There's a burial in Caldicot 19 Nov 1734 of Mr Edward Smith of Tredegar. His will is on the NLW site where he is of the parish of Bassaleg, and names sons Thomas & Edward and wife Elizabeth. Don't think this is your Edward as no mention of Vere. Also, the Mr. implies someone of standing.
Another burial 29 Jan 1766 for an Edward Smith living at Roggiet. Again there is a will, mentions nephew Thomas and wife Martha. Edward Smith & Martha Jones both of Magor married by licence in 1759, so not yours.
I've looked in the transcriptions of records for the surrounding parishes with no success as yet. There was a Thomas Smith with wife Jennet in Portskewett who had at least one daughter who was buried in 1708, Jennett died 1710 and Thomas 1713.
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Hi osprey,
I really appreciate your help in searching for Edward Smith and his wife, and eliminating these other Edward smiths' and other smith families in these nearby parishes that are not relevant or related to this family. Also I appreciate the fact that you have taken time out of your own life to take the time to look for my Edward Smith and his wife.
Thanks very much
Elizlloyd
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Hi osprey,
I was just wondering if you had found anything further on Edward Smith and his wife, really appreciate your help with this one. Thanks Elizlloyd
The parish of Caldicot came into being in 1716. Marriage could be in one of the surrounding parishes. Haven't spotted it as yet.
There was also a daughter called Anne who was buried 8 Oct 1731.
There's a burial in Caldicot 19 Nov 1734 of Mr Edward Smith of Tredegar. His will is on the NLW site where he is of the parish of Bassaleg, and names sons Thomas & Edward and wife Elizabeth. Don't think this is your Edward as no mention of Vere. Also, the Mr. implies someone of standing.
Another burial 29 Jan 1766 for an Edward Smith living at Roggiet. Again there is a will, mentions nephew Thomas and wife Martha. Edward Smith & Martha Jones both of Magor married by licence in 1759, so not yours.
I've looked in the transcriptions of records for the surrounding parishes with no success as yet. There was a Thomas Smith with wife Jennet in Portskewett who had at least one daughter who was buried in 1708, Jennett died 1710 and Thomas 1713.
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nothing further. There are transcriptions of many of the parish records on DustyDocs
http://www.dustydocs.com/
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Thanks osprey for the Dusty Docs link, and will look at this site to see if I can bring up any information on Edward Smith and his marriage. Appreciate this link.
Thanks
Elizlloyd
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osprey
Hello just to say I have found the Will (on The National Libray of Wales site) for Edward Smith (occupation Yeoman) buried 1734 Caldicot and mentions his wife Elizabeth (surname unknown) I would like to know their marriage details and her maiden name if you can help, he was from the parish of Bassaleg and in the Will he mentions a son Vere Smith baptised 1726 first then a son Thomas Smith baptised 1729 and a son Edward Smith. Also to mention as Ann Smith his daughter was buried in 1731 in Caldicot there was no mention of her in the Will.
My family line I have now connected up with this Thomas Smith Baptised 1729, so am glad to find Edward Smith his father of Bassaleg.
I am keen to find out more about Edward Smith of Bassaleg and when he was born and find out more about his occupation as a Yeoman in Bassaleg would be good to know.
Thanks
Elizlloyd
The parish of Caldicot came into being in 1716. Marriage could be in one of the surrounding parishes. Haven't spotted it as yet.
There was also a daughter called Anne who was buried 8 Oct 1731.
There's a burial in Caldicot 19 Nov 1734 of Mr Edward Smith of Tredegar. His will is on the NLW site where he is of the parish of Bassaleg, and names sons Thomas & Edward and wife Elizabeth. Don't think this is your Edward as no mention of Vere. Also, the Mr. implies someone of standing.
Another burial 29 Jan 1766 for an Edward Smith living at Roggiet. Again there is a will, mentions nephew Thomas and wife Martha. Edward Smith & Martha Jones both of Magor married by licence in 1759, so not yours.
I've looked in the transcriptions of records for the surrounding parishes with no success as yet. There was a Thomas Smith with wife Jennet in Portskewett who had at least one daughter who was buried in 1708, Jennett died 1710 and Thomas 1713.
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still no sign of the marriage in Monmouthshire or a baptism for Edward. Bassaleg parish registers date from 1742, there are Bishops Transcripts for 1725-31 at the NLW but not available online.
There is a marriage that could be a coincidence in St Mary Redcliffe for Edward Smith and Elizabeth Harbert/Herbert
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFKJ-2LH
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osprey
Thank you for your reply and marriage for a Edward Smith and Elizabeth Harbert/Herbert. Im guessing St Mary Redcliffe is Elizabeth Harbert/Herbert's parish.
On the Will for Edward Smith it says he was originally from the parish of Tredegar (so I am going to find out more about Tredegar and the Smith family there) but was living in Bassaleg at the time of his Will.
I have found the information below about Elizabeth Herbert daughter of Vere Herbert and so far this is the only information / document i have found which includes her name ..its from Gwent Archives..
Sudbrook Deeds and Documents, etc. 1573-1845 GB0218.D1317 So I am wondering if this Elizabeth Herbert is the same one as in St Mary Redcliffe the marriage to Edward Smith which you have found if it is that would be really good news. Also I have been trying to find out did the Elizabeth Herbert below own Caldicot Court and Court Farm.
D1317/3 (DOCUMENT NOT DEPOSITED. DESCRIPTION ONLY.) COUNTERPART FEOFFMENT. 1. Vere Herbert of Caldicot, esq., and Margaret his wife. 2. William Herbert of Caldicott, gent., s. and h. to Vere Herbert. In consideration of the natural love and affection which the first part bears to the second and £100 which William Herbert promises to pay to Elizabeth Herbert, sister of William and daughter of Vere and Margaret within the space of 3 months and a yearly rent of £30 p.a. which Wm. Herbert undertakes to pay Vere Herbert during his natural life without any deducton and £20 of like money unto Margaret. Mess. or farm called Caldicot Court and all lands and tenements thereto belonging, pars. Caldicot, Ifton, Magor and Roggiet, now in the possession of Vere Herbert, also several mess. lands and premises in the several possessions of William Hutton, George Bowler, Thomas Giles, John Saunders and Daniel Boole with all lands and tenements belonging situated pars. Caldicot, Magor, Ifton and Rogiett and also of him Wm. Herbert permitting and suffering the said Vere Herbert and Margaret his wife from time to time and at all times the chamber in the said dwelling house called Caldicott House with good sufficient furniture in lodging and otherwise there at all times as they shall see convenient to make use thereof. Also stocks of cattle, horses, goods and implements in husbandry upon the said Caldicot farm as well within doors as without. 27 Dec 1723
Thanks
Elizlloyd
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the will suggests that Edward was living in Tredegar, not that he was born there.
It's certainly possible that it's the same Elizabeth. St Mary Redcliffe is a well known church & they may have married there by licence, so neither resident in the parish. This is before Hardwicke's Marriage Act.
There's a Prerogative Court of Canterbury will probated 1728 for Mary Herbert, spinster of Bristol, which mentions the Manor of Caldicott & Newton. It's not the easiest to read and the grant is in Latin. I think her father was Francis & her mother Margaret.
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osprey
Thanks for putting me right Edward Smith and that the will suggests that Edward was living in Tredegar, not that he was born there.
Also, for finding this information re Mary Herbert and her Will and interesting information that it mentions the Manor of Caldicot and Newton and ties it up with her. Daughter of Francis and Margaret. I have read up on the history of the Herbert family a little and think that this Francis and Margaret lived in a Manor in Sudbrook
I was told that a Thomas Smith had married the youngest daughter of a Vere Herbert who was the Sherriff of Caldecott but it must have been Edward Smith and they also said that was the reason why the Herbert and Vere names have been in each generation of our family having heard that I was curious to find out more about the familys past history.
Thanks again for your information and help you have answered a lot of questions.
Elizlloyd
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osprey
Thank you for your help and in your post which I have quoted below well I contacted Bristol Archives for a copy of the Marriage Licence for Edward Smith and Elizabeth Herbert married 1725 St Mary's Redcliffe, Bristol well I have had a reply back about the licence from the Archives Assistant which was kind of her and very helpful.
"Unfortunately I am unable to send you a copy order form for the marriage licence of Edward Smith and Elizabeth Herbert as all of the marriage licences from 1723 – 1726 are too delicate to be digitised or to be made available to the public.
However, according to a partial transcription that was made many years ago, Edward is recorded as being from Cornwall and Elizabeth from St Michael, Bristol. Edward’s bondsman is listed as a John Thomas of Bristol."
So osprey this looks like this could be the right couple for my family, and I m surprised to see Edward Smith comes from Cornwall.. I wonder what made him move to Tredegar and work there I wonder if he had a farm there.. also I wonder if Elizabeth Herbert was born in St Michael Bristol and then moved to Wales.
Anyway I just thought I would update you with the information shown on the marriage licence.
Thanks
Elizlloyd
the will suggests that Edward was living in Tredegar, not that he was born there.
It's certainly possible that it's the same Elizabeth. St Mary Redcliffe is a well known church & they may have married there by licence, so neither resident in the parish. This is before Hardwicke's Marriage Act.
There's a Prerogative Court of Canterbury will probated 1728 for Mary Herbert, spinster of Bristol, which mentions the Manor of Caldicott & Newton. It's not the easiest to read and the grant is in Latin. I think her father was Francis & her mother Margaret.
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osprey
Hello i just want find out the name of the church where the marriage took place in Magor between Thomas Smith and Mary Taylor 17 May 1756 as I've searched on Freereg Findmypast and Family search and wondered if you would be kind enough to help me please I would also like to obtain a copy of this marriage record.
Thank you
Elizlloyd
looks a match, doesn't it. Marriage of parents
Thomas Smith married Mary Taylor, a minor, 17 May 1756 in Magor by licence, both otp and by consent of Mary's guardian, witnesses Vere Smith and Richard Branson.
A possible for the Vere who was the witness is the Vere son of Edward Smith bp 5 Oct 1726 in Caldicot, so possible for Thomas son of Edward Smith bp 13 Nov 1729 also in Caldicot.
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at that time, any church marriage took place in the parish church. Magor is small and there is only one church.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Magor/
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1687646
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osprey
Thank you for your reply and appreciate your links enclosed that's very kind of you and thanks for your help. I will have a look at the information on the links and thank you for replying to my message to you.
Thanks
Elizlloyd