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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: Magiccat1978 on Sunday 15 October 17 03:42 BST (UK)
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hi
I'm looking for a little help in identifying a birth for Catherine Thomson.
What I have so far :
Catherine Thomson married George Allister on the 25.10.1860 at Dunfermline.
Catherine gives her parents as : John Thomson (Labourer) and Christina Thomson maiden name Walker.
I have them on the 1861 Census where she gives her Birth year as 1837 and the place as Ceres, Fife. George gives his birth year as 1837 and his birthplace as Dunfermline, Fife.
In 1871, 1881 and 1891 the family are in Carstairs, Lanarkshire.
Catherines Birth years doesn't vary much 1835-1837.
Catherine dies on the 18th May 1908 at Carstairs aged 73 years. Again her parents are listed as John Thomson (General labourer) and Christina Walker.
George dies in 1922 in Dunfermline.
I have been trying to identify her and her parents on earlier censuses and thought I had Identified a family and followed that family to Dysart in Fife where Catherine Thomsons mother ( who I thought was Christina / Catherine Walker) died in 1885 but the death cert fro this Catherine Thomson shows her father as Peter Kerr and her mother as Catherine Mitchell, previously Kerr maiden name Grant. So I have made a mistake somewhere! I cant seem to find a marriage for John Thomson and Christina Walker or indeed an birth or death for Christina Walker.
So basically I'm looking for help to identify Catherine Thomson and her family before she marries George Allister in 1860. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading
Laura :)
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Have you tried variants with 'wildcards allowed' or 'Fuzzy Matching' options of the names such as Thom*son (Thompson) & Christ**n (Christian)?
Annie
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Hi thanks for replying
yes I have tried fuzzing matching. :)
I have put in Catherine Thomson (Wildcards allowed and fuzzy matching) birth range 1830-1840 area Fife, Father John and I get only 3 possibilities
CATHARINE THOMSON -Parents ANDREW THOMSON/CATHARINE JOHNSTON 30/08/1836
CATHARINE THOMSON Parents - JOHN THOMSON/ELSPETH CANT 23/09/1833
CATHARINE THOMSON Parents - JOHN THOMSON/CATHARINE KERR 04/11/1835
The last on appears to be the family I followed until the mother died in 1885
I would love to pin down birth and parents for Catherine Thomson around 1837. I think I have been looking at it for so long I've go myself muddled ???
Thanks again
Laura
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Have you found her in 1841 in Ceres, Fife?
www.freecen.org have the whole of Scotland transcribed for 1841 (the only year) but worth checking for ANY possibles in Fife.
Annie
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Not sure where you're based but this is good for checking areas;
www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/parishes
Annie
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It may also be worth while looking for her under the surname Walker too as she may have been illegitimate?
Annie
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HI
I thought I had tracked them down to High Street, Scoonie, Fife in 1841.
John Thomson 1816, Catherine Thomson 1816, Catherine Thomson 1836, John Thomson 1838 and Peter Thomson 1839. This is the family I followed until the death cert in 1885 that gave me the names Mitchell, Kerr and maiden name Grant as Catherine Seniors previous names instead of WALKER as I had expected. I cant seem to find another family that fits - so I'm a little confused as where to go next.
I had tried Walker incase she was illegitimate but came up with nothing ???
I must have missed something somewhere, just cant see it
Thanks again
Laura
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"Catherine Thomson married George Allister on the 25.10.1860 at Dunfermline.
Catherine gives her parents as : John Thomson (Labourer) and Christina Thomson maiden name Walker"
Is there mention of either parent being deceased on Catherine's marriage?
If not then checking for them in 1861 might be worthwhile?
What age was Catherine on her marriage?
"I have them on the 1861 Census where she gives her Birth year as 1837 and the place as Ceres, Fife.
In 1871, 1881 and 1891 the family are in Carstairs, Lanarkshire"
Does each census give Ceres as PoB?
Not all children were baptised, not all were recorded & not all records have survived.
Annie
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There is this on the 1851 census.
Cupar
Christian Thompson widow 60 b Ceres
Barbara 28 b Kemback
David21 b Kemback
Catherine 16 b Ceres Flax mill worker
Also note that there is a baptism for a Helen Thomson(parents John Thomson and Christian Walker) in Kemback 1 Sept 1816
Marriage of a John Thomson and Christian Walker in Kemback 30 Jan 1812.
William
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No there is no mention of them being deceased on the marriage certificate and are both deceased on her death certificate as expected.
I had followed a family I thought had been her parents and siblings up until the 1881 census but then the death certificate for that Catherine Thomson which revealed the names Mitchell, Kerr and Grant instead of the expected Walker.
All subsequent census entries give Catherine Allister (Thomson) place of birth as Fife.
I wonder if she just didn't think to list her parents as deceased on her marriage certificate? Must have another look at it and see who the witnesses are, can't remember off the top of my head.
Thanks again
Laura
Had a look and the witnesses are William Allister and Charles something -. Could be Walker? Will try to post a snippet of it later for you to look at once I get to a PC.
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1851
Christian Thompson widow 60 b Ceres
Barbara 28 b Kemback
David21 b Kemback
Catherine 16 b Ceres Flax mill worker
Also note that there is a baptism for a Helen Thomson(parents John Thomson and Christian Walker) in Kemback 1 Sept 1816
Marriage of a John Thomson and Christian Walker in Kemback 30 Jan 1812.
Great find William...
Looks to me they are likely the g/parents?
Annie
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There is this birth in Ceres
Christian Walker
16 Nov 1790
Parents Thomas Walker and Catherine Hutton
There is a death in 1867 of a Christian Thomson mmn Hutton in Dunfermline.
William
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There is a death in 1867 of a Christian Thomson mmn Hutton in Dunfermline.
She also has a surname Glass (would be a married surname) :-\
Annie
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If Catherine's birth place is consistent with Ceres then she should be traceable pre marriage?
Annie
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THOMPSON CATHERINE
1851
16
420/ 10/ 18
Cupar, Fife
Ceres is in the RD of Cupar
Annie
Added....Above from SP
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In the same household 1851 on Fancestry...
Christien Thompson 60
Barbarra Thompson 28
David Thompson 21
Caterine Thompson 16
Annie
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Hmm...I'm confused ::)
1851 (Fancestry)
Christian Thomson 60 Wife Born Logie, fifeshire
Spouse James Dall
Parish Number 443
Civil Parish Largo
Town Kirkton
County Fife
ED 3
Page 9
Schedule 47
LINE 13
Roll CSSCT1851_91
James Dall 70
Christian Thomson 60
James Dall 22
Annie
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Hi
I dug out the copy I had of the Allister / Thomson marriage cert was really faint so I have downloaded a fresh copy from SP and when I enhanced it on the computer there is something after John Thomsons name and it could well be (dec) deceased. I will try to attach it for you to see.
She gives her age as 24 and in the box for profession/relationship it simply say Spinster. Georges entry say Labourer and Bachelor.
I wonder if the names of George Allister and Catherine Thomsons children might help to narrow it down ?
They are :
Christina c1861, William c1863, John Thomson c1863, George c1864, Catherine c1867, Alexander Thomson c1868, Helen c1870, Charles c 1872, Christina Walker c1874 and Matthew Kinnaird c1876.
Is it possible that the 1851 entry is them and Catherine aged 16 is Christians daughter? I cant seen to find the entry on SP but I will keep looking
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Is it possible that the 1851 entry is them and Catherine aged 16 is Christians daughter? I cant seen to find the entry on SP but I will keep looking
This does look very likely it's your Catherine (in my opinion) but of course I can't verify that.
I'm not so sure of her being a dau or g/dau :-\
She doesn't seem to be with Christian in 1841 not helped by being a very common name ::)
The entry on SP is exactly as I posted i.e. go to 1851 census & type in the name with this exact spelling, her age & Fife for the County...
THOMPSON CATHERINE
1851
16
420/ 10/ 18
Cupar, Fife
I can't pick a 'likely' in 1841 as none are in Cupar Parish ::)
Annie
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I found the census and downloaded it from SP
It has Barbara as daughter, David as Son and Catherine as Daughter. So I think there is a good chance of this being the correct family.
Off to look for a death for this Christian born c1791 and see if that yields anything
Thanks for all your help
Laura
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This seems right area, right age but surname other than Thomson a mystery?
THOMSON CHRISTINA 87
1878
415/ 5
Ceres
ADAMSON CHRISTINA 87
1878
415/ 5
Ceres
Annie
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You may not be able to find them in the 1841 census. Cupar is among the parishes for whom the 1841 census returns are lost. Quite a few Fife parishes fall into this category.
William
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There is this birth in Ceres
Christian Walker
16 Nov 1790
Parents Thomas Walker and Catherine Hutton
There is a death in 1867 of a Christian Thomson mmn Hutton in Dunfermline.
William
What about this death that Millmoor found?
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It might certainly be worth a look, Isobel. Just checked again
Christian Thomson mmn Hutton died 1867 age 77 Dunfermline ref 424/1 251.
Christina Walker mmn Hutton has exactly the same reference.
The Christian Glass mmn Hutton that Annie found has a different reference and died age 67.
William
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I think that looks very promising Millmoor.
Isobel
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Yes it does Isobel!
This is not much help but on SP I couldn't find a Charles Walker (witness on 1860 marriage) in 1851 or 1861 anywhere using...
'Wildcards allowed' Wa**er & 'Name beginning' Ch ???
Annie
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Wonder what address is given for Catherine on her marriage cert? There is a Christian Thomson of the correct age (but showing as born Lemback) living in Woodmill Road (one transcription has it as Windmill) with daughters Barbara and Margaret and grandchildren Jane and Isabella.
William
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There is a Christian Thomson of the correct age (but showing as born Lemback)
William...
That's a good find as that would be Kemback (near Cupar)!!
Annie
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Wonder what address is given for Catherine on her marriage cert? There is a Christian Thomson of the correct age (but showing as born Lemback) living in Woodmill Road (one transcription has it as Windmill) with daughters Barbara and Margaret and grandchildren Jane and Isabella.
William
Hi
I cant properly make out the address Catherine gave on her marriage cert I does say something mill. I have attached it below and hopefully someone else will have a better idea.
r There is this birth in Ceres
Christian Walker
16 Nov 1790
Parents Thomas Walker and Catherine Hutton
There is a death in 1867 of a Christian Thomson mmn Hutton in Dunfermline.
William
What about this death that Millmoor found?
I bought this death cert and it say she was married to John Thomson, I think his occupation is ploughman but I'm not 100% sure. Parents - Thomas Walker and Catherine Walker maiden name Hutton. The death occured at St Leonards Place, Dunfermline as was registered by Margaret Thomson (Daughter).
This would tie in with the Margaret on the census entry I think
Wonder what address is given for Catherine on her marriage cert? There is a Christian Thomson of the correct age (but showing as born Lemback) living in Woodmill Road (one transcription has it as Windmill) with daughters Barbara and Margaret and grandchildren Jane and Isabella.
William
Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it
Laura
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That actually does look like Woodmill (possibly Street rather than Road) to me. In the quote above I said that the 1861 census said Woodmill Road- have checked again and it is actually Street and so is looking quite good circumstantial evidence.
What would be quite useful is to track what happened to the potential siblings Barbara and Margaret. The clincher would be if their parents on their death certs were the same as Catherine's.
William
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I'm struggling to find deaths for either Margaret or Barbara.
I have found Barbara, with nieces Jane and Isabella on the 1871 census at St Leonards Street, Dunfermline but no sign of Margaret and this is the last I can find of Barbara too. To make it worse I cant find births for them either !
Such a frustrating family ???
Guess I' just have to keep looking. Thanks for your help
Laura
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I have managed to trace the David Thomson seen on the 1851 census with Christian, Barbara and Catherine. He died in the parish of Mains, Forfar in 1856 aged 26years. His parents are given as John Thomson (deceased) and Christina Thomson maiden name Walker. The informant was Mary Gechie (Inmate) I can't make out the place of death though - attached at the bottom for a more expert eye ;)
Still can't trace Barbara or Margaret but will keep on looking.
Would also like to find out about Catherines father John Thomson too so loads more to look for I think I could be chasing this lot for a while
thanks again
Laura
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I think it is Fountainbleue. If you Google Fountainbleue, Forfar you should get some more info.
Isobel
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Possible death for Barbara Thomson 1888 in Dunfermline - age 64 but note her age does seem to vary in censuses.
This may be her in the 1881 census
Barbara Thomson 53 Factory worker U b Cupar
Jeanie Thomson 25 Factory worker U Niece b Cupar
Address Hospital Hill, Dunfermline.
William
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I think it is Fountainbleue. If you Google Fountainbleue, Forfar you should get some more info.
Isobel
Thanks Isobel, that looks right as google says there was a Plash mill at Fountainbleue and in 1851 David gives his occupation as Plash Miller so it ties in nicely
Possible death for Barbara Thomson 1888 in Dunfermline - age 64 but note her age does seem to vary in censuses.
This may be her in the 1881 census
Barbara Thomson 53 Factory worker U b Cupar
Jeanie Thomson 25 Factory worker U Niece b Cupar
Address Hospital Hill, Dunfermline.
William
Thanks William that was spot on. I bought the cert and it is the correct one - parents listed as John Thomson and Christina Walker both deceased.
It would be good to find them in 1841 to see the family unit and see whether John Thomson is alive because a rough year of birth would be useful in tracking his family down.
There is a death in Cupar on the 18.12.1850 of a John Thomson (Labourer) aged 63 from Athsma
and there is a birth in Ferry port on Craig in 1887 Parents William Thomson and Margaret Simson which looks promising as John and Christian marriage in 1812 has two entries, one in Kemback and one in Ferry port on Craig.
If the above death is correct they must be somewhere in 1841. Off to keep looking :)
thanks again
Laura
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I suspect you will not find them in 1841 - as I said in a previous post a lot of the 1841 census for Fife is missing and this includes Cupar.
William