RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: littleorme on Tuesday 31 October 17 18:05 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know of any one whose family came from Co Down, and Rathfriland in particular?
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Presumably they were living in Lancashire? (Else why post on a Lancashire board?)
What timeline are you thinking of?
Any clues as to names?
Since 1912 until 1983, FreeBMD is showing 42 Moore/Kelly marriages in Lancashire! ;D
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No I don't know of any but someone else might.
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Warrington is shown as in Lancashire on this site. I know it is in Cheshire - but perhaps this is a different Warrington? If not, then perhaps it could be moved?
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Warrington is shown as in Lancashire on this site. I know it is in Cheshire - but perhaps this is a different Warrington? If not, then perhaps it could be moved?
Warrington was historically in Lancashire. Geographically it is still in Lancashire. Warrington has not moved. The Government put Warrington into a different administrative unit in the 1970s. These administrative units did not replace counties. The 1974 set-up has altered again since. Warrington is currently in the ceremonial county of Cheshire. There are, apparently different types of county in England: historic, geographic, administrative, ceremonial, to name a few. If RootsChat and similar FH sites moved towns from one county to another each time the Government decided to re-arrange local government tiers, they'd be forever shuffling, and we'd be even more confused than we are now. ;D The family history organisations and sites I am familiar with use the pre-1974 historic counties.
Edit. I just checked on English counties board on here. It's English counties as they were 1851-1901.
Ashton-under-Lyne, Stockport and Warrington are on both Cheshire and Lancashire boards. So you can be in Cheshire if you want to be, but only for ceremonial purposes. Todmorden is on Lancashire and Yorkshire board. The county border used to go through the town.
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Warrington is shown as in Lancashire on this site. I know it is in Cheshire - but perhaps this is a different Warrington? If not, then perhaps it could be moved?
We have to have some dates Clive - 1800's 1900's ???? and what name is the father / groom - is it Kelly or moore ? you need to put full names / dates down for us to help us .... :)
So do we presume that your Moore and Kelly family are in Warrington - St Elphins church Warrington are all on Lancashire Online Parish Records
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
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Warrington is shown as in Lancashire on this site. I know it is in Cheshire - but perhaps this is a different Warrington? If not, then perhaps it could be moved?
???
How does Warrington relate to your question?
And you still haven't given any dates!
Are we looking at recent dates?
Early 1900s? 1800s? 1700s?
As I said - some clues would be helpful ;D
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The Rathfriland you mention is that a place name or a house name in Warrington where your family lived?
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Rathfriland is a town in County Down, Northern Ireland.
Is this you one you mean?
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Related threads by Clive on these families.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686285.msg5304573#msg5304573
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744405.msg5913953#msg5913953
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Mary Kelly, a daughter of Bernard Kelly of Dromena, Co Down, Ireland, married Edward Moore of Rathfriland, Co Down, in 1874. (Hence reference to RATHFRILAND.) In his will dated May 1904, Bernard Kelly referred to his daughter, Mary Moore, and to his son Edward Kelly of WARRINGTON.
A daughter of Edward and Mary Moore was Agnes, who became a nun.
When she died in 1975, cousins from WARRINGTON were said to have attended the funeral.
I know nothing else about Edward Kelly of WARRINGTON, but hoped that the names of Moore and Kelly; and Rathfriland and Warrington might mean something to readers. Thanks for the interest shown.
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Possible? 1911 census:
In Warrington, Lancashire
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYN-NQD
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Have you checked the surnames interest list on here and have you put the Kelly and Moore names on with relevant places? It has a column for comments.
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Thank you both. The 1911 census looks very promising. I'll also take a look at the "surnames interests" list.
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1901 census, same family?
Carlisle Street, Warrington
Kely, Alice Head F 60 Provision Dealer b Ireland
Kelly, Edmund Son M 40 Provision Dealer Assistant b Ireland
Kelly, Mary Daughter-in-Law F 36 b Ireland
Kelly, Bernard J Grandson M 10 b Ireland
Kelly, Cormie Grandson M 6 b Ireland
Kelly, John V Grandson M 4 b Ireland
Kelly, Kathleen Granddaughter F 2 b Warrington, Lancashire
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9PM-PTB
The problem is that there are 262 people called Kelly, living in Warrington, on the 1901 census? ;D
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It looks good. Some comments though. For Edmund read Edward.
Elsewhere I've found a marriage between Edward Kelly and Mary Kelly (sic) in Co Down in Aug 1888.
Mary's mother was given as A Cunningham. Perhaps the A stands for Alice? If so, in the 1911 census, Mary would be Alice's daughter, and not daughter - in - law?
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The GRO Index Search shows Mother's maiden names for almost all births, 1847-1916. So:
KELLY, EDWARD KELLY
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 247
KELLY, MARY KELLY
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 262
KELLY, WILFRED KELLY
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 234
and
KELLY, CATHERINE KELLY
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 225
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in the 1901 census, Mary would be Alice's daughter, and not daughter - in - law?
Don't forget that what we have is the enumerator's summary sheet. The enumerator may well have "corrected" the relationships, not knowing that Mary's maiden name was also Kelly.
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Thanks both. Looks confirmed on GRO Index. (I didn't know mother's maiden name was available earlier than 1912 :) Good point too about the enumerators' "correction". I wonder how often this happened!
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GRO Index also shows age at death for almost all deaths, 1837-1916
But fails to say whether years. months, weeks or days! :-\
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