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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: Indiana.59 on Thursday 23 November 17 11:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone have any details of the Shaw's living at what was known as Stoneavaich - Glenconlas
presuming it now Glenconglass . . .
And is Stoneavaich now known as Stronavaich . . . ?
I have a Alexander Shaw who resided in Inchrory - Glenavon and at Stroneavaich (Stronavaich) no idea on date given . . .
Alexander Shaw's sons . . .
William Shaw of Minmore - Glenlivet and John Shaw (Priest) at Rutherglen - Glasgow . . .
Alexander's father is supposed to be a Duncan Shaw . . .
And Duncan's father is supposed to be a Farqur Shaw who married a Shaw whose father was John Shaw of Inchrory
Duncan Shaw is supposed to have married a Shaw whose father was called Alexander Shaw of Inchrory
I looking for information on all of the Shaw's mention here and of Duncan child James Shaw who died without issue
Who is William Shaw of Minmore - Glenlivet . . . ?
Confused - not as confused as I am with all those Shaw's marrying Shaw's . . . *o*
Any help would be gratefully received . . . : )
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Hi ,
26 Jun 1853 Patrick McGlade & Elizabeth McQuade both of this Par. were P in
the Par. Ch. of Ruth. three sev. Sabbaths in O to Mar. & no object. made &
Mar. at Ruth. 17 Jul 1853 by John Shaw Priest of Catholic Church of
Rutherglen.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LANARK/2003-04/1049375908
1851 Census(FreeCEN)
68 Abercromby Street , Glasgow , Lanarkshire.
John Shaw(Rev) 29 Missionary Apostolic born Kirkmichael Banffshire
Could that be John ?
ev
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Libindx has -
John Shaw baptism 10th April 1820 Kirkmichael
parents Alexander Shaw , Stronevach , and Elspet Gordon.
ev
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Thanks Ev
I have taken all of this out of a book - names were given but no dates - thanks to you I now have a time frame on which to work back from
We are supposed to be from the Alister Shaw line as follows
Alister 1st married a Murry of Finzean - 2nd marriage to a Shaw of Dalnavert and had 3 son's Duncan, William and Donald - not dates given
Then just for the fun of it there is just a commor, then it goes straight into Farqua Shaw married a Shaw daughter of John Shaw - they had a son Duncan who went on to have the James who died without issue and the Alexander who went on to have William of Minmore and John the priest of Rathanglen
We now know thanks to you that John was born in 1820 and his parents are Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon
This is far to head for the time I am looking at . . .
My actually problem is a William Shaw who married in 1795, to a Ephy(Euphemia)Grant in Tomintoul - their 1st son Donald - I cannot find Williams Shaw's parents
So we are now back to the bit where the Farqur Shaw jumped in and took me down the wrong line with the correspondent giving the information that Alexander Shaw and the now known wife Elspet Gordon had more that just William of Minmore and John the priest born 1820 in Rathenglen as I also found a Duncan born 1824 and a Alexander born 1826 but I hasten to add not the William birth date unknown or john the priest born 1920 by same parents - confused to say the least
It is Alister Shaw 1st marriage a Murry from Finzean - 2nd wife a Shaw from Dalnavert and their 3 son's Duncan, William and Donald and yet again no time frame given that I am looking for - who the correspondent in the book say's that William of Milltown of Inveruorie as spelt in the book and Alexander Shaw born 1802 of Delachule in Tomintoul who is the of son of William and Ephy Grant of Delachule who married in 1795 are of the Alister Shaw line
So just who is William of Milltown - Inverourie - is it Alexander's son William born 1839 or Alexander's father born ???? as people are mentioned as to the tack they hold at that time and not always their place of their birth or is William Shaw someone else completely different - other than to say the correspondent in the book say's they are both from the same line from this Alister
There is no point in looking at one home base with this lot as there is a lot of movement with this family of Shaw's and all of it is not helped by inter liked marriages and such forth
We have Rothiemuscas then Tardorroch - Dalnavert - Tulleghue - Inchrory - Braemar - Crathie - Cathinard - you name it they been there - it is enough to drive you up the wall . . .
I am just so close to sorting it all out but only if the correspondent has got it right in the first place
Reading the history of the Shaw's is like reading the Gospels out of the bible - with everyone and every Clan giving a different account of the same story - like just how many virgin Mary's are there - yet it appears every religion has got one . . .
Kind regards - Indiana x x x
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Thought this sounded familiar.
Other threads dealing with the same extended family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744158.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762779.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=745492.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=745914.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=755709.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=756549.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=756552.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762279.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762338.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762729.0
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Yes Forfarian thanks for reminding me - I have come a long way since making those inquiries and have learnt a great deal of just about every Shaw going that was Scottish in and out of Scotland
Except William Shaw born around 1750's to which there are a few Shaw's and unlike others I am not prepared to just pick be any old William Shaw that fits the bill or otherwise I would have a rich tale to tell would I not
I have found the reading of the accounts of the Shaws/MacIntoshes of Doune house the most misleading
1) Was the "Dallas" who was murdered by his step son Allan Shaw/MacIntosh a one James or John?
2) And that the said wife of the James Shaw who then was killed in the battle of Harlow 1411, and remarried is up as Grant, a Campbell, or a McGregor depending whose history you are reading
3) The "Memoirs of a Highland Lady" by Elizabeth Grant do not help either
4) We as the mere commoners in this story of the Shaw's can take a running jump as to be so concerned as to the records kept
5) And the sheer movements of the Shaw's in general
6) As stated in my previous message on this particular inquiry it is just about William Shaw who married the Ephy Grant in 1795 that I am concerned about, taking in to account that this William Shaw could have been married before
I was totally aware of the Shaw's of Stronavaich but never saw them as any form of direct line to the our family - but every avenue has to be checked even if just to eliminate it
I have also read the accounts of all the surnames that relate to the Shaw's either through marriage or witnesses to any marriage or to children Baptism's and the fact all those people who are up as placed else where are all in fact within the Kirkmichael/Tomintoul at all the said times, it is called parallel lines
The part that I am dealing with at this very moment in time is the Rev. Lachlan Shaw and the Rev. W. G Shaw and trying to unravel the part where it states William Shaw of Milltown of Inverourie as it is written and the Alexander Shaw of Delachule and the correspondent a said William Shaw of Castletown, Corgarff claims that we are of the Alister Cair Ruiad Shaw/Macintosh line, the said brother to Allan Shaw the beheader of Doune House
As you are fully aware I myself did not personally invent that story line and I am just doing my best to unravel the generations of Shaw's as written from any such books from each other to find our place in that line if any
My quest continues or maybe with your kindly reminder "Thought this sounded familiar" to just give up on my quest in regard my family line
Kind regards Forfarian - Indiana x x x
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There is Stroneavich - Glenconlas and there is Stronavaich - Conglass just off the Lecth road on the same side as Glenmullie but further down heading out of Tomintoul - does anyone know the difference or are they the same as I always thought Glenconlas was further up past Tomintoul - please correct me if I am wrong . . .
Indiana . . .
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Hi Indiana,
The River is the Conglass, so the valley that Stoneavaich, Delachule, Delnalyne, Lagganvoulin etc are in is all kind of 'Glen Conglass'. There is a farm though, further north along the river that is/was called Glenconlas/glenconglass/various other corruptions like all the others have.
Rowanali
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Hi Indiana,
The River is the Conglass, so the valley that Stoneavaich, Delachule, Delnalyne, Lagganvoulin etc are in is all kind of 'Glen Conglass'. There is a farm though, further north along the river that is/was called Glenconlas/glenconglass/various other corruptions like all the others have.
Rowanali
Thank you Rowanali - I sometimes wonder if you ever found your Betsy McGregor in the storyline between Delachule and Lagganvoulin you were looking for, and wonder if it was - Betty (Betsy) Elizabeth McGregor B: 9/10-1822. She was the child to Alexander McGregor B: 1791 cira and Christian McPherson B: 1797 - Laggan who wed in 1819, Betty was the grandchild to Gregor McGregor and Mary Rose Ross of Gualrig - son of Robert "Willox" McGregor of Gualrig (Warlock) and could have resided in one of the brothy's nearer to the river on Delachule's land or as a farm servant to Alexander and Isabella Shaw.
The other Betsy that was found: Betsy McGregor B: 1791 cira and her party James Cameron - sister to Alexander McGregor before mentioned and again of Gualrig . . .
Excuse me if wrong as I remember the Betsy in the storyline but not the dates in question - also this line of McGregors seem to inter-relate into the Camerons back as far as the 1600's where I lose the trail - alas no Lillis Cameron found as yet . . .
Cheers Indiana
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Stuff about the Rothiemurchus Shaws in Elizabeth Grant's "Memoirs of a Highland Lady!" the Grant's displaced the Shaws in Rothiemurchus, a younger son of the Laird of Grant asked if he could have it & the answer was that he could if he could hold it, which he did, assisted by the MacGregor's who arrived from Perthshire in force. Some MacGregors remained in Strathspey thereafter.
"Gregor Willox the Warlock!" is obtainable from the publisher's the Aberdeen & NE Family History Society. Amazon want funny money for this booklet!
Bests,
Skoosh.
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Stuff about the Rothiemurchus Shaws in Elizabeth Grant's "Memoirs of a Highland Lady!" the Grant's displaced the Shaws in Rothiemurchus, a younger son of the Laird of Grant asked if he could have it & the answer was that he could if he could hold it, which he did, assisted by the MacGregor's who arrived from Perthshire in force. Some MacGregors remained in Strathspey thereafter.
"Gregor Willox the Warlock!" is obtainable from the publisher's the Aberdeen & NE Family History Society. Amazon want funny money for this booklet!
Bests,
Skoosh.
Yus Skoosh - the Shaw's dispersed - leaving only Alistar Shaw who stayed and basically gave the Grants hell - until threatened by the McGregors at the request of the Grant's - to which the Shaw's scarpered and it is Alistar Shaw's journey thereon I am trying to establish - and yus some McGregors were left behind to keep a watchful eye - Alistar Shaw's line ended up in Inchory but that was much later in the day from the likes of the 1500's and 1600's - but I am finding that journey stemmed down from Inverness into the likes of Breamar - Deeside were Farqu Shaw's clan became known as the Farquharson's with Blair Gowie thrown in the mix . . .
The book - I just bought it :-\ - last copy on Amazon at a grand total of £22 for 65-page pamphlet book in A4 size - plus £2.40 post - it gave very little on the family line and was more of a repeat of the story of the "Kelpie bridle - Stone and Mermaid" given by different narratives - and the antics of Gregor Willox" McGregor himself - who just seemed worldly wise when it came to the cures he admitted in sorting life's problems - some I say without success - but he was a character so I did enjoy the read - on arriving the book had a sticker on the back for £5.00 and the post according to the postage was a grand total of £1.87 - have I been had - darn right I have - he he he . . .
But we did marry into them on more than one occasion and the McGregors quite clearly had their boots firmly under our line of the Shaw's kitchen table - it merited a read . . . ;D
I now have the task of finding copies of Thomas Dick Launders - Legendary Tales of the Highlands and Highland Rambles to which there are more than one volume to catch up with his tales of the Shaw's on his travels - good old Thomas - eh . . . ?
One interesting find was just who resides as a whole in the Kirkmichael Kirkyard just outside of Tomintoul and though it is only a small kirkyard it is steeped in history which I am hoping will open the door to just who is my William Shaw's B: 1753 father was - as my William is buried there before the kirkyard closed around 1838 and with the rest of the family getting buried in Tomintoul itself thereafter - it was total shocker to me as to just who is residing in fact in both kirkyards . . .
It seems we used the Kirkmichael kirkyard and Tomintoul itself to return to be buried - no matter where in Scotland they may have resided beforehand . . .
I am not sure I have a pair of walking boots strong enough to walk all of this trail of time and history - but no harm in dying whilst trying - he he he . . . :-\
Cheers Indiana . . .
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Indiana, have you tried Seton Gordon's books for this?
Skoosh.
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Dear Indiana
Have you managed to find out any more information since your original post. I have a family tree from the Farquhar Shaw line through to the present day, however, I have gaps with information on Duncan Shaw, I only know his dob, and the immediate generation following Duncan's family line. Would like to find out information on Duncan Shaw born 1826 and his sister Elspet born 1834. I can confirm that the John Shaw information posted by Ev is correct for Rev Canon John Shaw (who was an older brother of Duncan and Elspet). Alexander Shaw also remarried so William Shaw may be from that marriage as I do not have any record of a son called William Shaw to Alexander and Elspet Gordon. Apologies for the revamp but for me this is a very interesting find. Best regards.
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Hello xscot1312,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Indiana.59 has been notified of your reply, she was online last week so hopefully she will reply soon.
Regards
Sarah
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Dear Indiana
Have you managed to find out any more information since your original post. I have a family tree from the Farquhar Shaw line through to the present day, however, I have gaps with information on Duncan Shaw, I only know his dob, and the immediate generation following Duncan's family line. Would like to find out information on Duncan Shaw born 1826 and his sister Elspet born 1834. I can confirm that the John Shaw information posted by Ev is correct for Rev Canon John Shaw (who was an older brother of Duncan and Elspet). Alexander Shaw also remarried so William Shaw may be from that marriage as I do not have any record of a son called William Shaw to Alexander and Elspet Gordon. Apologies for the revamp but for me this is a very interesting find. Best regards.
Hi Scot and a Merry Christmas pending to you and all for this years Christmas . . .
You have hit me at a rather bad time as I am packed up with a view of moving after the New Year, and I laid researching to rest until then, I do not know if you have ever read my other posts where the Faquhar Shaw ended up in Deeside after splitting up from the main body of Shaws, and his family re-entered as the Faquharsons, also in Deeside there was a man called Ducan Shaw who was referred to as the "Man of power" alongside his brother John, Duncan, a man of integrity, not to go into that to much, but; the kirkyard at Kirkmichael just outside of Tomintoul interested me as the Farquharson's have had their graves there since the 1500's was my biggest surpise, and that no matter where they were living or born they all took to getting buried here, as my great Grandfather William Shaw x 4 born appox 1753/1754 is buried there also, no idea where born, possible Breamar, he had a brother called Donald, and possibly a father also called Donald, all residing at Delalyon, in Tomintoul, now the name Donald bugs me, as could it be Duncan, the same way James and John get mixed up, so always look both ways on the name Duncan, you are far to way a head of me in regard of the your Duncan Shaw and Espet Shaw as I spend most of time going backwards not forwards, but; to disappearing Shaws have you checked the Canadian line of Shaws, and any military records, I am at loss to your Duncan and Elspet Shaw as much as you are, as I am away from any files I have at the moment, was there not a question that some, maybe even 3 of the sons died and out them 1 or 2 went without issue, William was one I am sure, because I remember stopping the research there, on file just at this moment and it is very limited, I do have this, the baptizm of Alexander Shaw to William Shaw and Ephy Grant at Delalyon in 1802, it was witnessed by an Alexander Farquharson and Elspet Gordon *sponsers, but remembering this was 1802 and they would have both have had been at least 17 to witness the wedding and be sponsers . . .
Also in 1832 my great Grandfather Alexander Shaw x 3 wedded Isobel McIntosh in the presence of "Duke of Gordon" with no explantion as to why he was there, Alexander Shaw was Catholic where as the Duke was not, so was the Dukes connection to Isobel's McIntosh family her father being Donald McIntosh, and non Catholic, no idea there, just that there is a full 2 page entry of weddings at that time and the Duke was not mentioned in any of the other weddings, so just who were the Shaws of Tomintoul . . .
Given where we both stand now, your line of Farquharson interest me just to see if we are lining up somewhere there, it is quite clear we all knew each other in someway . . .
Indiana
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Thanks for the information and apologies for the disruption. I know that Duncan Shaw was a Gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery and discharged after amputation of his right forearm but no year given with this information (I have someone looking into this for me for a date). And that Alexander Shaw converted to Catholicism to marry Elspet. Alexander was press-ganged into the navy twice. My father has his release papers still. Alexander remarried after Elspeth’s death - Isbella Munro, After the Navy he became a farmer in Stronavaich. I have Alexanders father as Duncan Shaw (snr) son of Farquhar Shaw who married Janet Shaw from Kirkmichael Baniff ( diff Shaw line), Janet was born 26 Dec 1765 so maybe married about 1784 (my father thought), although I think I have found parish records to say marriage was 9 March 1791.
Janet Shaw's father was Alexander ‘Alistair’ Shaw of ‘Inchrory’ possibly in Glen Avon, near Tomintoul, married Elspet Farquharson. I will leave you with this until you are settled again. No rush for me as I no longer live in the Uk and have limited internet access. Thank you for the information provided so far. Looking forward to finding out more. XScot
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Thanks for the information and apologies for the disruption. I know that Duncan Shaw was a Gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery and discharged after amputation of his right forearm but no year given with this information (I have someone looking into this for me for a date). And that Alexander Shaw converted to Catholicism to marry Elspet. Alexander was press-ganged into the navy twice. My father has his release papers still. Alexander remarried after Elspeth’s death - Isbella Munro, After the Navy he became a farmer in Stronavaich. I have Alexanders father as Duncan Shaw (snr) son of Farquhar Shaw who married Janet Shaw from Kirkmichael Baniff ( diff Shaw line), Janet was born 26 Dec 1765 so maybe married about 1784 (my father thought), although I think I have found parish records to say marriage was 9 March 1791.
Janet Shaw's father was Alexander ‘Alistair’ Shaw of ‘Inchrory’ possibly in Glen Avon, near Tomintoul, married Elspet Farquharson. I will leave you with this until you are settled again. No rush for me as I no longer live in the Uk and have limited internet access. Thank you for the information provided so far. Looking forward to finding out more. XScot
So, Scot we are related then, he he he, and another example of how names get mixed up, James with John, Donald with Duncan, and the old Alistair and Alexander . . .
Somewhere I have the will to Alexander Shaw in the 1600's, as the Shaws carried the Mcintoshes name back in the day as they joined clans, Alexander Shaw was the first I think to return to his own surname of Shaw as seen in his will, give me time and I will fish it out for you, all this now relates to Doune house, and how the Shaws fell out of favour with the Grants after Allan Shaw/McIntosh is supposed to have beheaded his step-father, Dallas, then the Shaws spilt up with Alistair Shaw being the only one to carry on his fight with the Grants, and he is Alistair/Alexander Shaw of Inchory . . .
And, in your own time too Scot, there are others on here who can help you too as they go to the record offices at Edinburgh were all the recors are kept, as Duncan and Elspet Shaw are your quest here, and many might miss this information you have given I would open a new quest on the forum, given the information you have giving me in regards to Duncan's and Elspet Shaws parenthood too, but; given what you have said up to now, we do if only in names have a link between us, good luck, and see you the next time around . . .
Indiana . . . : )
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Indiana, have you tried Seton Gordon's books for this?
Skoosh.
No, Skoosh, but; I will give it go finding them, many thanks Indiana . . . :)
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Thanks for the information and apologies for the disruption. I know that Duncan Shaw was a Gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery and discharged after amputation of his right forearm but no year given with this information (I have someone looking into this for me for a date). And that Alexander Shaw converted to Catholicism to marry Elspet. Alexander was press-ganged into the navy twice. My father has his release papers still. Alexander remarried after Elspeth’s death - Isbella Munro, After the Navy he became a farmer in Stronavaich. I have Alexanders father as Duncan Shaw (snr) son of Farquhar Shaw who married Janet Shaw from Kirkmichael Baniff ( diff Shaw line), Janet was born 26 Dec 1765 so maybe married about 1784 (my father thought), although I think I have found parish records to say marriage was 9 March 1791.
Janet Shaw's father was Alexander ‘Alistair’ Shaw of ‘Inchrory’ possibly in Glen Avon, near Tomintoul, married Elspet Farquharson. I will leave you with this until you are settled again. No rush for me as I no longer live in the Uk and have limited internet access. Thank you for the information provided so far. Looking forward to finding out more. XScot
Name: Duncan Shaw
Pension Admission or Examination Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1828
Birth Place: Kirkmichael, Tomintoul, Banff
Pension Admission or Examination Date: 9 Apr 1850
Regiment: 6 Horse Artillery
Rank: Gunner
Name: Duncan Shaw
Enlistment Age: 20
Discharge Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1828
Birth Place: Kirkmichael, Banff
Enlistment Year: 1848
Discharge Year: 1850
Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery
There is a document, but; it cannot be shared . . .
Name: Duncan Shaw
Regiment: Royal Regiment of Horse Artillery
Residence Date: 9 Apr 1850 - Fort George
Document Type: Regimental Registers of Pensioners
Died: I can't make it out, but; it was added as an after note in the last column of 1854 - I think aged 24, but; it is followed by an exclamation mark . . .
Then we come to a headstone erected in memory of a Duncan Shaw by his son in Dairy cemertey in Edinburgh, died 30th August 1854, and also in memory of Will Henderson died 28 Jan 1854 aged 65, this only connects if you know who the Will Henderson is as Duncan Shaw is up aged 50 . . . !
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I have found 4 births as follows:
John Shaw B: 10/4/1820 - Tomintoul
Alexander Shaw B: 1/11/1824 - Tomintoul *4 year gap from John
Duncan Shaw B: 15/8/1826 - Tomintoul * 2 year gap from Alexander
Elspet Shaw B: 4/12/1834 - Tomintoul * 8 year gap from Duncan
All born to a Alexander Shaw + Elspet Gordon, Tomintoul, but; I could find no others via Scotlands People to these parents . . .
The births are erratic to say the least, there is either other missing children, or having the later birth of Elspet after a 8 gap was to much for her mother where she then dies, all depends on finding the mother Elspet's death:
Only deaths found: via Scotlands People . . .
ELSPET SHAW - aged 80 - 2/2/1834 - Tomintoul
ELSPET GORDON - aged 26 - 02/02/1835 - Forfar
Strange both should died on the same date but; one year apart, and diffent ages, could the age on the Elspet Shaw 2/2/1834 death cert be a mistake, hard to say as there are many Elspet Shaws in Tomintoul, and for the Forfar, Elspet Gordon, it needs to be checked out as in Scotland it is not unusual to be buried under your maiden name, or even registered back in your birth place by your family under your maiden name, whether it is a year later, or did she even return there to be looked after, after becoming ill on the birth of her daughter also called Elspet, by her family, was Elspet born 4/12/1834 named after her mother because of her death, remembering the birth record unless we have seen the entry of Elspet Shaw 4/12/1834 could be a baptism date and not an actual birth date done later in the year, though this would be unusual by her own Catholic family, the sooner the better, and did you not say Elspet was a Catholic, and Alexander wasn't, this may in itself have caused some divide between Elspet's family whether Alexander changed his religion or not to marry Elspet, then there is, was Elspet named after her mother, or her maternal mother in finding thee Elspet Gordon married to Alexander Shaw, no marriage found, in birth . . .
Distance between Tomintoul and Forfar by car by todays roads is about 77 miles . . .
I don't have it to hand at the moment, but; I did make a list of Shaws at Stronevach/Stonaviach and are these places actually the same, as there was house on the roadside just in front of Glenmullie that I have no idea what it is called, but; I do know there was a family of Shaws in it at one time, and it can still be seen today via Google maps, and Stronaviach that is set back from the road just further down the road from Glenmullie coming away from Tomintoul itself hidden by trees, not sure if this was a distillary at one time, this is also still going today as a guest house, anyway I had made a list up of this Shaw, he had children made up of male and females and that some of the males died without issue, I can remember a James, Alexander and a William, and a possible John, and was there a Duncan or a Donald, can't be sure without finding the list, I have no idea on the females, I say Shaw as I cannot be 100% if the father was a John or an Alexander Shaw . . .
The question here is, is the Rev. Father John Shaw and John Shaw of Stonaviach/Stronevach the same person as the late of Rev. Father John Shaw who was born also in 1820 and died on 3/11/1885, as on his death it is claimeded he was born in Perth and Kinross, Kirkmichael, given Kirkmichael covered a wide area, so do we really have the same man here, I do have a birth of a John Shaw whose father was Alexander Shaw in 1819 born Perth . . .
JOHN SHAW to ALEXANDER SHAW/CHRISTIAN KENNEDY - BLAIR ATHOLL - PERTH - KIRKMICHAEL
BORN - 16/03/1819
So here's a photo and does he resemble your Rev. John Shaw in your oil painting, one thing for sure he ain't one of ours Shaws, though our Shaws do have those lovely long thin eyebrows that look like a bird in flight, everything else though just does not fit . . . :-\
Which just goes to show how misinformed infomation has folk going down some strange roads, in the 1861 census John Shaw is born Tomintoul, Kirkmichael, in the 1881 census he is then born in Kirkmichael G, Banffs by the time he dies he is born in Kirkmichael, Perth and Kinross . . .
In regard of the Alexander Shaw at Glenmullie I can find no marriage of Alexander Shaw to an Elspet Gordon, but; saying that if Alexander Shaw was in the Navy as you say, he could have just about got married anywhere, and I have not covered that, just Scotland . . .
But; I do have a John Shaw marriage to an Elspet Gordon in 1817, Tomintoul as follows:
JOHN SHAW to ELSPET GORDON - 7/4/1817 - TOMINTOUL
More info needed from your side, please . . .
Indiana . . .
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I have found 4 births as follows:
John Shaw B: 10/4/1820 - Tomintoul
Alexander Shaw B: 1/11/1824 - Tomintoul *4 year gap from John
Duncan Shaw B: 15/8/1826 - Tomintoul * 2 year gap from Alexander
Elspet Shaw B: 4/12/1834 - Tomintoul * 8 year gap from Duncan
All born to a Alexander Shaw + Elspet Gordon, Tomintoul, but; I could find no others via Scotlands People to these parents . . .
Only deaths found: via Scotlands People . . .
ELSPET SHAW - aged 80 - 2/2/1834 - Tomintoul
ELSPET GORDON - aged 26 - 02/02/1835 - Forfar
A little very simple arithmetic and elementary logic will show you that neither of these can be the Elspet Gordon you are looking for.
If the older one died at age 80 on 2 February 1834, it is absolutely impossible for her to be the mother of a child born in 1834, or indeed of a child born 14 years earlier, in 1820, when she would have been 64 years old. Quite apart from the fact that Elspet Shaw, daughter of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon, was not born until 10 months after her death.
As for the younger one, if she died aged 26 on 2 February 1835, she must have been born between 3 February 1808 and 2 February 1809, so she would have been at most 11 years old when John Shaw was conceived in the summer of 1819.
BTW you have missed some of the children of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon: there are actually seven of them, all listed in the RC registers at Scotland's People.
Donald, baptised 2 June 1818
John, 10 April 1820
Jane, 9 April 1822
Alexander, 3 October 1824
Duncan, 21 August 1826
Unnamed, baptised 6 July 1828
Elspet, born and baptised 4 December 1834.
It would also not surprise me if there is a mistake in the registers and the two baptisms
Unnamed, 3 May 1830
James, 28 October 1832
were born to Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon, not John Shaw and Elspet Gordon. If I were you I would look at those two baptisms as well as at the seven others. The references to them in LIBINDX give their place of birth as Stronevaich. The marriage in 1817 might also be the same couple with the groom's name incorrectly recorded. Have you viewed all the original records of these events?
And of course the Elspet Gordon who died in Forfar in 1835 would only have been at most 9 years old when Donald Shaw was conceived in the summer of 1817.
The question here is, is the Rev. Father John Shaw and John Shaw of Stonaviach/Stronevach the same person as the late of Rev. Father John Shaw who was born also in 1820 and died on 3/11/1885, as on his death it is claimeded he was born in Perth and Kinross, Kirkmichael, given Kirkmichael covered a wide area, so do we really have the same man here
Scottish death certificates do not tell you where the deceased was born. Where did this claim come from?
Kirkmichael does not 'cover a wide area'. There are four entirely separate parishes named Kirkmichael in Scotland. One is in Banffshire, around Tomintoul, and another is in Perthshire. Are you sure that this claim did not result from someone knowing that he came from Kirkmichael who had heard of the parish of that name in Perthshire but not of the one in Banffshire, so just assumed that it was the Perthshire one?
As he died in Scotland there is no need to flap around asking questions when you can easily settle the matter by looking at his death certificate, then you will see at once if he was the son of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon.
There is in fact an obituary in the Lanarkshire Upper Ward Examiner of 7 November 1885 which states specifically that he was born in Tomintoul, Banffshire, in the year 1820, and the 1881 census says he was born in the parish of Kirkmichael, Banffshire.
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John Shaw B: 10/4/1820 - Tomintoul
Alexander Shaw B: 1/11/1824 - Tomintoul *4 year gap from John
Duncan Shaw B: 15/8/1826 - Tomintoul * 2 year gap from Alexander
Elspet Shaw B: 4/12/1834 - Tomintoul * 8 year gap from Duncan
All born to a Alexander Shaw + Elspet Gordon, Tomintoul, but; I could find no others via Scotlands People to these parents . . .
Only deaths found: via Scotlands People . . .
ELSPET SHAW - aged 80 - 2/2/1834 - Tomintoul
ELSPET GORDON - aged 26 - 02/02/1835 - Forfar
A little very simple arithmetic will show you that neither of these can be the Elspet Gordon you are looking for.
If the older one died at age 80 on 2 February 1834, it is absolutely impossible for her to be the mother of a child born in 1834, or indeed of a child born 14 years earleir, in 1820, when she would have been 64 years old. Quite apart from the fact that Elspet Shaw, daughter of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon, was not born until 10 months after her death.
As for the younger one, if she died aged 26 on 2 February 1835, she must have been born between 3 February 1808 and 2 February 1809, so she would have been at most 11 years old when John Shaw was conceived in the summer of 1819.
BTW you have missed some of the children of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon: there are actually seven of them
Donald, baptised 2 June 1818
John, 10 April 1820
Jane, 9 April 1822
Alexander, 3 October 1824
Duncan, 21 August 1826
Unnamed, baptised 6 July 1828
Elspet, born and baptised 4 December 1834.
It would also not surprise me if there is a mistake in the registers and the two baptisms
Unnamed, 3 May 1830
James, 28 October 1832
were born to Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon, not John Shaw and Elspet Gordon.
Right, well, this is looking like the family I made notes on, and it also fill the gaps in birth years, we need to get the death cert for Elspet Shaw aged 80, could it be a clerical error, and it the same date as Elspet Gordon death in 1835, in the Forfar registery, if the 80 was a 50 say instead making her born approx 1784/5, thus keeping Elspet in line with Alexander Shaw's approx birth year of 1785 as in the 1851 census, and that would make Elspet 23/24 at the time of Donald's birth in 1818, and about 49 at the time of death, would that add up . . .
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Right, well, this is looking like the family I made notes on, and it also fill the gaps in birth years, we need to get the death cert for Elspet Shaw aged 80, could it be a mistake, aged 50 say making her born approx 1784/5 keeping in line with Alexander's approx birth year of the same 1885 as in the 1851, and that would make Elspet 24 at the time of Donald's birth in 1818, that would add up . . .
There is no death certificate as it is before the start of civil registration in 1855.
But it really does not matter whether this Elspet Shaw was 80, or 50, or 20, or any other age, because as you said she died on 2 February 1834, which, as I have already pointed out, is ten months before the birth of Elspet Shaw, daughter of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon, on 4 December 1834. Or to put it another way, she was dead before Elspet Shaw was even conceived.
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Right, well, this is looking like the family I made notes on, and it also fill the gaps in birth years, we need to get the death cert for Elspet Shaw aged 80, could it be a mistake, aged 50 say making her born approx 1784/5 keeping in line with Alexander's approx birth year of the same 1885 as in the 1851, and that would make Elspet 24 at the time of Donald's birth in 1818, that would add up . . .
There is no death certificate as it is before the start of civil registration in 1855.
But it really does not matter whether this Elspet Shaw was 80, or 50, or 20, or any other age, because as you said she died on 2 February 1834, which, as I have already pointed out, is ten months before the birth of Elspet Shaw, daughter of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Gordon, on 4 December 1834. Or to put it another way, she was dead before Elspet Shaw was even conceived.
Now, now, Forfarian, so you have seen the birth and baptism record together on the same day yourself have you, as I have not, if it as in birth, not baptism, and if in anyway the 80 is wrong, that's all I am saying here, check it all out first and cert the facts . . .
So after packing all my stuff away including all my work on the Shaws, I decided to jump across and do the Mary Laing who married my great Grandfather William Shaw baptized1839, Delachule, in Tomintoul for a nice change as I was sick of the Shaws, William Shaw married Mary Laing in Candy Craig, Glenmuick, in 1875, then went on to have children in Banchory - Ternan except one child that was born in Skene, when later I can across a death entry for a James Shaw in the Tomintoul registry, it read, James Shaw, died Skene, of the family of Delachule, no age given, well, it was not my James Shaw as my great grandfather x 1 was going great guns until the 1970's, so did my grandfather William Shaw have another James Shaw that prior to my own 1st great Grandfather James Shaw that died, no idea, so I did a check on the death, don't hold this to me, but; if I remember there was a James Shaw, but; he was 50, not a child, died Skene, the main thing here it does not matter where you died, you still get registered back at your own home place, as a cross reference, which it seems for this James Shaw was Delachule, yet I cannot find a James Shaw for that time and age at Delachule, cross registry is a complicated game, it can be done years later, and mistakes can be made when these hand writtern entries then get put into type later on, also it is known in Scotland that if a wife dies, and the wodower husband re-marrys quickly to have the help to bring the children up while he goes out to work to keep the family, that the 1st born daughter of the new wife is given the name and surname of the deceased 1st wife, if Elspet Shaw was born 4/12/1834 and was in effect that child to be born after the mother Elspet Shaw/Gordon died in 2/2/1834, and her age was 49/50, not 80, then the timing of this Elspet Shaw born 4/12/1834 could actually be quite correct, this death entry needs to be seen if only to eliminate it, just saying . . .
And, a Merry Crimbo, to you Forfarian, and may next year be better than this last about to pass . . . :)
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Now, now, Forfarian, so you have seen the birth and baptism record together on the same day yourself have you, as I have not, if it as in birth, not baptism, and if in anyway the 80 is wrong, so could the 1834 also be wrong, and could it be in fact be 1835, that's all I am saying here, check it all out first and cert the facts . . .
I am going by the index on SP, which gives the same date for the birth and the baptism - not unusual in the RC records. Also LIBINDX, which indexed the Tomintoul RC registers long before they were put on SP, and which also says that Elspet Shaw was born on 4 December 1834.
It's your family, not mine. It's up to you to check things out, not me. If you think the indexes are wrong, view and download the originals and post extracts here so we can all see them and you can prove that the indexes are (and I am) wrong.
We have a saying in Scotland: facts are chiels that winna ding. If Elspet Shaw Sr died on 2 February 1834 as you and SP say, and Elspet Shaw Jr was born on 4 December 1834, as both SP and LIBINDX say, then, barring miracles of a truly biblical kind, it is absolutely impossible for Elspet Shaw Sr to be the mother of Elspet Shaw Jr.
But it's your tree, and if you want to assume that the records are wrong it's up to you. It will have no effect on me.
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Now, now, Forfarian, so you have seen the birth and baptism record together on the same day yourself have you, as I have not, if it as in birth, not baptism, and if in anyway the 80 is wrong, that's all I am saying here, check it all out first and cert the facts . . .
I am going by the index on SP, which gives the same date for the birth and the baptism - not unusual in the RC records. Also LIBINDX, which indexed the Tomintoul RC registers long before they were put on SP, and which also says that Elspet Shaw was born on 4 December 1834.
It's your family, not mine. It's up to you to check things out, not me. If you think the indexes are wrong, view and download the originals and post extracts here so we can all see them and you can prove that the indexes are (and I am) wrong.
We have a saying in Scotland: facts are chiels that winna ding. If Elspet Shaw Sr died on 2 February 1834 as you and SP say, and Elspet Shaw Jr was born on 4 December 1834, as both SP and LIBINDX say, then, barring miracles of a truly biblical kind, it is absolutely impossible for Elspet Shaw Sr to be the mother of Elspet Shaw Jr.
But it's your tree, and if you want to assume that the records are wrong it's up to you. It will have no effect on me.
I do my best, Forfarian to place all my facts followed by certs on here, and also happy to share for others to cross reference, This is not my cause, I am just trying to help out xscot1312 in his trail, there are too many Alexander Shaw's in the mix here, all living next door to each other, which one of us are related, actually we all are, he wants help in regard of Duncan Shaw, born to Alexander Shaw and Elspet Shaw in 1826, well there cannot be 2 can there, one living in Glenmullie, the other in Stronaviach at the same time, one thing xscot1312 has not given me that he has himself is the birth date of his Duncan Shaw, I have put up the details I have, and what I recall of this Shaw family there were sons that died without issue, was Duncan one of them, like I said I have researched it, but; I cannot get my hands on the files just now as they are packed away until after I have made my move after the New Year, what I am finding now is via Scotland People already in my searched items and images, you are like some over sized bully, Forfarian, always turning up and trying to push me off this site, because if anyone makes me want to give it all up, it is you . . . >:(
Even though this lot of Shaws are not my direct line of Shaws I am quite happy to put this death entry of this Elspet Gordon/Shaw on my list of getting on behalf of xscot1312, if needs be, and if only to eliminate this Elspet Gordon/Shaw if needs be, that's the way it all works, Forfarian . . .
I'm off for a nice cup of tea . . .
Indiana fed up Shaw . . . :(
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You may rest assured that I will never attempt to help you again.
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You may rest assured that I will never attempt to help you again.
Quote from my previous thread . . .
"Which just goes to show how misinformed infomation has folk going down some strange roads, in the 1861 census John Shaw is born Tomintoul, Kirkmichael, in the 1881 census he is then born in Kirkmichael G, Banffs by the time he dies he is born in Kirkmichael, Perth and Kinross" . . .
It is xscot 1312 you should be helping here, not me, it is his quest, not mine . . . ;)
Bye Pet . . . ;D
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Hi
Apologies for any confusion caused. And if my reply is now out of context as the original one I was typing vanished and I lost my train of thought. Any help and clarification is gratefully received as I have taken over this quest and have only been looking into it for a few months. I can confirm that I originally replied to a post placed by Indiana and it was kindly responded to. Duncan and Elspet are my family tree quests. If I come across information that differs from my relatives original research (started over 20 years ago) then I have noted this in my saved family tree. I can confirm that the image of Rev John Shaw is my relative - we have the original colour oil painting. b. 10 Apr. 1820 Banff, left home aged 13 to train at Blairs College, then to Paris and returned to Glasgow and was appointed priest at Rutherglen and was Canonised and d. 3 Nov. 1885, Rutherglen. The information I have on Elspet Gordon (father John Gordon, mother Margaret Stuart) b. 18 Sep 1792 (maybe 1793 - 2 birth records filled 1 year apart) d. 4 Dec 1834 at childbirth (baby Elspet) in Stronavaich. She married Alexander on 7 April 1817. As for Duncan - b. 21 Aug 1826 Gunner Royal Horse Artillery Discharged 1850 after amputation of right forearm. On census in 1851 aged 26. Thanks to Indiana for further details on him which helped me find his service number - he only appeared on PRO and not on military searches. On the same census there are another 2 Duncan Shaw's listed in Edinburgh (father and son), however this rules out a headstone in Dalry Edinburgh as my relative (much to my disappointment - as I used to live opposite that cemetery many moons ago). Elspet (Jnr). became her brother Canon Shaw’s housekeeper, but no other information is known. I only know about 6 children so another child is interesting and will look further into this - thanks for that information, as I have said I am taking over from family members who are now unable to continue. And we did hold original family trees that were started over 100 years ago. So I am looking for gaps and for documentation to pass onto my children so it is not lost. Any information is most welcome. Thanks for all the help and time given.
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Hi Scot, glad to see you back, I had a birth for a Duncan Shaw B: 15/8/1926, F: Alexander Shaw M: Elspet Gordon, are these Duncan's one of the same as yours is up as B: 21/8/1826, is yours a birth or baptism which is usually held days apart, back to Elspet Shaw, there was a housekeeper to John Shaw in the1881 census, John was up as being 59, but; she was called Eliz Shaw, aged 44, are Eliz Shaw and Elspet Shaw one of the same, ages of are seldom correct on censuses, and if so are we then looking at Lanarkshire in our quest to find more information on Elspet Shaw, nothing was stated to her relationship to John Shaw, but; both were up as coming from the same place of birth, Kirkmichael, seeing the paper census itself may yield more info, as Elspet Shaw may have remained a spinster, if Eliz Shaw and Elspet Shaw are one of the same, but; as I am not buying any Scotlands People credits until after the New Year, you will have to bear with me on that one unless you have already got it, let me know if you have, I am glad the picture of John Shaw fitted your profile, I saw Canon John Shaw had been previously buried in Rutherglen, but; his remains were re-interred in Dalbeth Cemetery on 1 July 1950, as found on *Find a Grave, flowers were left on the site by a A. Kelly on the 24th of March 2020 . . . !
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201964302/john-shaw
Laters, Indiana . . . ;)
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Hi again xscot1312
I just wondered as to what may have happened to the smaller children in 1834 after Elspet's death, as I could not find any 1841 census for this family . . .
BIRTHS:
DONALD SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 2/6/1818 - TOMINTOUL 1841 23
JOHN - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 10/4/1820 - TOMINTOUL 1841 21
JANE - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 9/4/1822 - TOMINTOUL 1841 19
ALEX SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 1/11/1824 - TOMINTOUL 1841 17
DUNCAN SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 15/8/1826 - TOMINTOUL 1841 15
SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 6/7/1828 - TOMINTOUL 1841 13
SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 2/5/1830 - TOMINTOUL 1841 11
JAMES SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 26/10/1832 - TOMINTOUL 1841 9
ELSPET SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 4/12/1834 - TOMINTOUL 1841 7
We now know thanks to you that John Shaw set of on his Priesthood at the age of 13, but; what of the other children, as Alexander Shaw did not marry Isabella Munro until 1837 . . .
MARRIAGE: ALEXANDER SHAW/ISABELLA MUNRO - 3/12/1837 - KIRKMICHAEL
A copy of this marriage is needed as it quite clearly says - Kirkmichael, not Tomintoul - Kirkmichael, to see if any reference is made to who Isabella's Munro parents were, and a possible residence address . . .
Also, I wondered if this could be your Duncan Shaw in the 1841 census, he is a farm servant at Rynamarsh aged 14, residing with a Margaret Shaw, clip of the census shown below . . .
Indiana . . .
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To xscot1312
To where I referred to Duncan Shaw born 1826 was deceased came from the book, "The Genealogcal of the Highland familes of Shaw" by Alexander Mackintosh Shaw, Shaw of Tordarroch, printed 1877
"Quote"
Alister married first a daughter of Murray of Binzean, next, a daughter of John Shaw, Dalnivert; and had three sons, Duncan, William, and Donald, of whose issue (if any) nothing is known to the writer.
Farquhar, by a daughter of John Shaw, Glenclunie, Braemar, had three sons, Duncan, William, and Alexander. The eldest of these married a daughter of Alexander Shaw of Inchrory, and had two sons, James, who died without issue, and Alexander, who resided at Inchrory in Glenavon, and Stroneavaich in Glenconlas.
The latter was father of Donald, now at Minmore, Glenlivet; John, a Priest of the Roman Catholic Church, now at Rutherglen; Duncan, deceased; and Alexander, also deceased. Donald, the eldest of these, has three sons, John, Donald, and James
So; it is fair to say by the time this book was written and printed in 1877 your Duncan Shaw was deceased . . .
And, hence why I was chasing down the Braemar line of Shaws in the first place, as the only birth I can find that fitted my William Shaw born 1754, was a William Shaw born 19th of May, 1754 to a Duncan Shaw, and Janet Downy of Gleneye, Braemar, William's father was a Duncan Shaw baptized 23 February 1722 to a Donald Shaw of Glenluy, any further information on that would gratefully received . . .
And, also my sudden interest in the Alexander Shaw of Glenmullie, Tomintoul, in the 1841 census, born Aberdeenshire, Crathie . . .
"My family research files may be in a box, but; my luckily my memory isn't, quite yet . . . ;)
Indiana Shaw, still researching on Christmas day . . . ;D
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I've just joined RootsChat as I think I can add some light to the Alexander Shaw m Elspet Gordon thread.
Alexander (sometimes recorded as John) married Elspet Gordon in 1817. The marriage entry (RC) says that he is the nephew of Donald Shaw, Laganale - that supports the idea that Alexander's mother is a daughter of Alexander Shaw of Inchrory and Elspet Farquharson. However, the Janet Shaw born 1765 actually married John Gordon of Inchnacape.
There was, however, an earlier Janet born to Alexander Shaw and Elspet Farquharson in 1754 - now this is only a suggestion, I can't prove anything, but given the errors in recording accurate family names what about the first Janet was actually known as Elspet (after her mother) and it was she who married Duncan Shaw, son of Farquhar Shaw? Elspet Shaw widow of the family of Inchrory died aged about 80 in 1834 - guess what year that makes her birth - yes, 1754!
Elspet Gordon (wife of Alex/John Shaw) died on 4 December 1834. Their youngest daughter Elspet was born and baptised on 4th December 1834, I can only assume that Elspet snr died in childbirth.
I am descended from Alexander Shaw and Elspet Farquharson's youngest son Donald.
Hope this helps to unravel some more of the story?
I have more info on the family if it's of any interest.
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Thanks Inchrory. I have the marriage as 9 March 1791 but can't find any saved information on this in my personal files. The first Janet information makes sense as Janet no 2 was definitely recorded with a John Gordon. More information is most welcome as I am just trying to piece things together and check the information I received. I too am a descended from Alexander Shaw and Elspet Farquharson's youngest son Donald. :-)
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Hi again xscot1312
I just wondered as to what may have happened to the smaller children in 1834 after Elspet's death, as I could not find any 1841 census for this family . . .
BIRTHS:
DONALD SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 2/6/1818 - TOMINTOUL 1841 23
JOHN - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 10/4/1820 - TOMINTOUL 1841 21
JANE - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 9/4/1822 - TOMINTOUL 1841 19
ALEX SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 1/11/1824 - TOMINTOUL 1841 17
DUNCAN SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 15/8/1826 - TOMINTOUL 1841 15
SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 6/7/1828 - TOMINTOUL 1841 13
SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 2/5/1830 - TOMINTOUL 1841 11
JAMES SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 26/10/1832 - TOMINTOUL 1841 9
ELSPET SHAW - ALEXANDER SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - 4/12/1834 - TOMINTOUL 1841 7
We now know thanks to you that John Shaw set of on his Priesthood at the age of 13, but; what of the other children, as Alexander Shaw did not marry Isabella Munro until 1837 . . .
MARRIAGE: ALEXANDER SHAW/ISABELLA MUNRO - 3/12/1837 - KIRKMICHAEL
A copy of this marriage is needed as it quite clearly says - Kirkmichael, not Tomintoul - Kirkmichael, to see if any reference is made to who Isabella's Munro parents were, and a possible residence address . . .
Also, I wondered if this could be your Duncan Shaw in the 1841 census, he is a farm servant at Rynamarsh aged 14, residing with a Margaret Shaw, clip of the census shown below . . .
Indiana . . .
I think I now have all the information on Duncan Shaw, thanks for this, and yes he did die at a young age. For information Donald Shaw he went on to have 6 children and died in 1899; John Shaw death is know; Jane possibly emigrated (still to confirm possible death 1900) ; Alexander married and died in 1875; Elspet still unknown. I have found one 1841 census for part of this family. Although personally I will look at information around Isabella once I have more information on immediate family members - as I don't think Alexander and Isabella had children between them. Where was the information on the seventh unnamed child found? As I have no record of this child.
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Hi again xscot1312
Where was the information on the seventh unnamed child found? As I have no record of this child.
My mistake or maybe not: It was a John Shaw/Elspet Gordon, not Alexander Shaw, but; given they had children every couple of years, there would be a gap for 1830, so this child may well be one of theirs, it was found under the RC birth records . . .
SHAW - JOHN SHAW/ELSPET GORDON - M - 2/5/1830 - 3/5/1830 - TOMINTOUL (SCOTLANDS PEOPLE)
To emphasize this I have put up James Shaws birth in 1832 as found on *Libindx
REF: NM149765
Surname: SHAW
Forename(s): JAMES
Date of Birth: 26 OCT 1832
Place of Birth: KIRKMICHAEL
Father's Name: JOHN SHAW STRONEVAICH
Mother's Name: ELSPET GORDON
Hope this helps . . .
We are in deed from two seperate lines, but; still related via the Alistar Shaw of Inchrory
Indiana . . . :-X
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Thanks Inchrory, and welcome to Rootschat
I have a William Shaw born 1754, at the time of his marriage in 1795 he is living at Delnalyon, Tomintoul, he gets married to Ephy Grant of Findron, and had 4 children in order, 1) Donald, 2) William, 3) Jane and 4) Alexander, going off William Shaw 1st child his father would have been called Donald, but; I can find no birth for a William Shaw born 1754, with a father called Donald, all I could find was a Duncan Shaw, Gleneye, Braemer, William also had other brothers called Donald and James, but; I can find no birth for an Alexander Shaw to this Duncan, from Braemar, not by this wife anyhow, also there is a track road leading from Braemer up into Inchrory to where Alistar/Alexander Shaw lived, Duncan Shaw was born in 1722, Glenluy, Braemer, his father was called Donald,
Also in 1801 the sponsors to my great Grandfather x 3 Alexander Shaw baptism were Alexander Farquharson and Elspet Gordon, is there any cross links there in your records I wonder, and to this missing link in the photo, a James Shaw born to a Donald Shaw of Inchrory in 1795, this James is the father to Donald *Glenmore* Shaw of Inchrory, B: 1825 and also to Alexander Shaw born 1827 of inchrory, any light you can throw on this would gratefully received . . .
Indiana Shaw (Perplexed) . . . :-\
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Hello Indiana
I have a few bits of info re Shaws of Delnalyn which you may or may not know about - much of it comes from Victor Gaffney's book, "The Lordship of Strathavon" and/or Bruce Bishop's booklet (ANESFHS) about Parish of Kirkmichael.
Like you I have estimated that William's birth is circa 1754. The first mention of Shaws in Delnalyn (spelling varies considerably) is in 1763 when Donald Shaw married Janet Cameron (a second marriage?). The 1773 rental crop also records Donald Shaw as being [in] Delnalyn. There is a reference made of Donald's son being recruited into the militia which extended the period of his tenancy. 1778 - William Shaw, Findron was recruited into Farquharson's militia. I suspect this is 'your' William and Donald's son. In 1784 William and Donald Shaw were given a 19 year lease of Delnalyn and in March 1785 Donald died. 1790, Willian Shaw rental crop and 1797, William Shaw paid horse tax. If his birth was 1754, he would have been 41 when he married Ephy so maybe he was married previously?
Going backwards in time there is a Donald Shaw, subtenant in Tommachlaggan (1752-54) - could this be William's father? Even further back (1729) is the birth of Donald Shaw to William Shaw Fodderletter and Isobel Robertson - could this be the right Donald? The ages would work as would the tradition of eldest son named after his paternal grandfather.
What I haven't found, however, is how these Shaws are related to my Inchrory Shaws.
James Shaw, son of Donald Shaw, is my 3xgreat grandfather by way of his son Alexander. 'My' Donald Shaw is the youngest son of Alexander Shaw and Elspet Farquharson (Inchrory).
Let me know if this makes any kind of sense to you?!
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As I'm very new to this site, I'm struggling to work out how I reply to different people on the thread!
Hopefully xscott1312 will see this reply?
I'm a bit confused by something you said in your earlier reply to me. I thought, from what I read in one of your posts, that you were descended from Alexander Shaw (1786-1865) and Elspet Gordon? I can't see, therefore, how you can be descended from Donald Shaw (1762-1836) who was the youngest son of Alexander Shaw (Inchrory) and Elspet Farquharson? Mind you, it doesn't help when there are so many different Shaws all with the same first name!
Passed down the generations, I have a powder horn inscribed 'Alexander Shaw 1734'. I also have a copy (a bit worse the wear) of Legends of Glenmore which has also come down through the family.
You mentioned a marriage in 1791 but not sure who you were referring to?
I think I was told that Duncan (son of Farquhar) died quite young (he was baptised in 1738 see RC records) - it might explain why Alexander was brought up in his mother's home of Inchrory? Also when Alexander gave his birthplace as Crathie, he would have been referring to the joint Parish of Crathie and Braemar. Farquhar was 'of Glencluny' which is at the far end of the parish, beyond Braemar.
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As I'm very new to this site, I'm struggling to work out how I reply to different people on the thread!
Hopefully xscott1312 will see this reply?
When you post on this thread, anyone who has previously contributed to it will be notified unless they have turned off notifications. So xscott1312 will be notified and can click on the link to view your reply.
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No, I was saying we are of the Alistar *Cair Shaw line of Inchrory, how we connect I have no idea, not yet anyways, the James Shaw's headstone is a mistake, it was a John Grant's headstone where William Shaw was mentioned as a son-in-law, my files are away at the moment all packed up, and I am just coping on memory here, when xscot1312 popped up, this after all is a old thread, sorry, but; I did route about for old things still left on my computer, and found James Shaw's headstone, so I thought I would still put it up for reference, headstone Ref: T(O)24 after all this James Shaw's father is Donald Shaw, and Donald Shaw was from Inchrory, and James Shaw's son Donald Shaw was Donald *Glenmore Shaw, the headstone Ref: T(O)24 is for James Shaw and his wife Barbara Stuart, and their son Donald *Glenmore Shaw is buried alongside them, headstone Ref: T(O)25, Tomintoul, Libindx
Reference No: NM169705
Surname: SHAW
Forename(s): DONALD "GLENMORE"
Occupation: AUTHOR
Date of Birth: c. 1825
Date of Death: 01 JUN 1862
Age: 37
Headstone Ref: T(O)25
Place of Death: AUCHGOURISH KINCARDINE STRATHSPEY
The other reference was to an Alexander Farquharson and a Elspet Gordon, is that they were both sponsors to my great Grandfather Alexander Shaw's x 3 baptism in1801, Tomintoul, somewhere through these last threads talking to xscot1312 I have put a clip up of it, but; just as to who they were in relation to my family of Shaw's I have no idea, but; as they were mentioned . . . :-\
Also I have put up a clip of a marriage of a James Shaw to a Jean Gordon in 1746, just in case it helps anyone in their family research . . . ;)
Leave you and xscot1312 to get on with it, shall I, and a happy Hogmanay . . . :)
Though you could try and just message him to get a direct message through . . .
Indiana Shaw . . . :-X
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Inchrory - apologies I missed the date you had written by your Donald, we have many generations of Donalds in my family tree. Alexander and Elspet Gordon had a son Donald. I do not have the names of all the children between Alexander and Elspet Farquharson as still looking into that, only the immediate family that links my lines. So that was my error apologies, also forgot Gordon and Farquharson, I was tired. I have yet to confirm Duncans death details (Alexanders father) and I have the marriage between Duncan and Janet as 9 March 1791 but who knows were this information came from as I cannot find any records of it. The family history I have prior to Alexander and Elspet Gordon is limited with only a few dates and names but nothing else. Hope this explains better and apologies again for the error. Indiana apologies if I have opened a can of worms on a 'closed thread' :-(
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Indiana apologies if I have opened a can of worms on a 'closed thread' :-(
No, everything is sound xscot1312, I have enjoyed it, it is only with these conversation we get the info, because like you say it is limited the further back we go, we are all giving each other something or another, the last message was for inchrory, I am just grabbing for anything I've got because in the end it makes for the bigger picture, the old thread was just me doing my job by checking on every Shaw just about going to see if there was connection, but; I feel that Inchrory has the real information you need as you are both of the same line, later on I will follow both of your threads, and see what I can find that I may not know from the both of you, I just throwing in my two penneth worth, because somewhere all the families have to connect up further down the line, and that is how we get the missing information, from each other, so I look forward to your other threads that you put up, as in regard of the Rev, John Shaw, the reason I said he was not one of ours, is because it seems to me he has the McDonald look about him, but; he deffo has the eyebrows . . . ;D
All the best for hogmanay, and happy hunting . . .
Indiana . . . :)