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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cordley on Saturday 30 December 17 16:07 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for the detail of the marriage between
26 Mar 1894 - Bristol, St Paul, Portland Square, Gloucestershire
- Holmes Howard George Bristol 6a 58
- Pearce Florence Annie Bristol 6a 58
Parents' names, witnesses, where living etc as per marriage cert.
Does anyone have access to this, or shall I send for the certificate?
Thanks, Pam
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No image I'm afraid but it does give both parties as single and her father as John Pearce :)
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Residence says Bristol, both were single and he was aged 24....
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Likely he was illegitimate as no mothers maiden name on his birth registration and he seems unsure of his exact birthplace - 1901 has London n/k.
Registration was Pancras Jun 1869.
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Likely he was illegitimate as no mothers maiden name on his birth registration.
Just about to post exactly the same thing!
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Possible sibling.... birth of Henry Lewis Holmes registered in Pancras in Dec quarter 1870, again no mother listed.
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Spot on!! He is illegitimate, and goes missing from the census after birth in 1869 until after this marriage when I find him again in 1901. I am having help in following his mother (Emily Holmes), and found her apart from 1871. Mother's maiden name is given on birth cert but hadn't been transcribed onto GRO record (reported).
What I really want to know is where he was living at the time of his marriage. His wife is a Bristol lady, but living in Streatham in 1891, which I believe is where he met her, where he was training/working as an upholsterer, until about 1906-11 when I find them living in Bristol for the rest of his life.
All help welcomed... Pam
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Possible sibling.... birth of Henry Lewis Holmes registered in Pancras in Dec quarter 1870, again no mother listed.
That's a new one to me - will investigate. Pam
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.... he seems unsure of his exact birthplace - 1901 has London n/k.
Strange as he seems to know his death of birth. That given on the 1939 register would fit the birth registration quarter!
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.... Mother's maiden name is given on birth cert but hadn't been transcribed onto GRO record (reported).
It won't. The '-' on the GRO index implies that the child was illegitimate.
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Just posting a link to the related thread so that people can see what is already known and don't duplicate work already done:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784707.0
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.... he seems unsure of his exact birthplace - 1901 has London n/k.
Strange as he seems to know his death of birth. That given on the 1939 register would fit the birth registration quarter!
I have his baptism, surname given as Kamplin, mother as Emily Holmes (correct). No further trace of John Kamplin, and JK not on birth cert.
Perhaps he didn't want to disclose too much of his past, to his future family...?
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.... he seems unsure of his exact birthplace - 1901 has London n/k.
Strange as he seems to know his death of birth. That given on the 1939 register would fit the birth registration quarter!
The 1939 DOB matches the birth cert details posted on the other thread :) I only find this strange as lots of my own ancestors from that time had different dates on the 1939 to their actual DOB!
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Just as a followup to those who were kind enough to assist in my hunt for Howard George Holmes - born 1869 to Emily Holmes in Pancras, London, and as far as I have been able to ascertain, he and his mother go 'missing' through the 1871,81,91 censuses.
A suggestion was made that he had a sibling Henry Lewis Holmes b 1870 in Pancras - have sent for that birth cert and he is not.
I have also sent for the marriage certificate of Howard George Holmes & Florence Annie Pearce on 26 March 1894 in the Parish Church of St Paul, Bristol. Howard's address is given as 28 William Street, father unknown, her address is 18 Dean Street, so presumably both of Bristol. His occupation is upholsterer which he follows through. 1898- early 1900's he is in London, Streatham, Wandsworth, then by 1911 he is back in Bristol.
In 1891 his bride-to-be is in service, a house-maid, in Streatham (born in Bristol & lady of the house also born in Bristol), so it looks as if they may have met in Streatham, then gone back to Bristol to marry.
So where is he, aged 19, in 1891. Did he serve an apprenticeship? His mother is in service in Fressingfield (where her parents came from) in 1891.
All ideas or other sources welcomed!!!
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Howard George HOLMES was back in London in 1895/6.
Using the Family Search, they are on the London Electoral Register - and lists Howard from 1896 onwards to Sunnyhill Road in 1897
in 1896, he is rented the top floor (4 rooms) unfurnished at 131 Hambro Road, 6s a week from Mr Bates, of the same address.
Assume Howard would be on an Electoral Role from the age of 21 -
Christening at Lambeth Immanuel Streatham Common
31 March 1895
Florence Emily HOLMES, residence: 131 Hambro Road, parents: Howard George (occupation: Upholster) and Florence Annie
12 October 1902
Constance Lilian May HOLMES, residence: 12 Mitcham Lane, : parents as above
Have been trying to find who was living at his given address (on this marriage certificage) in 1891.
Who were the witnesses at the wedding?
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Previous thread mentions the place of birth of Howard i.e. 19 Manchester Street, St Pancras, London
1871 Census
London
St Pancras, Gray, District 11, Page 9
19 Manchester Street,
WALKER
Elizabeth, Widow - aged 50, Dressmaker - born Kent, Fordwick
Francis S - son - 19 - Pianoforte maker, born Middx, St Pancras
Emily S - daughter 16, Cape Milliner, born Middx. St Pancras
John - son -11 - born Middx St Pancras
Sarah SOMERFORD, Mother, aged 71, Widow, born Kent, Dartford
+ a number of lodgers
(as the next number is No. 20 Manchester Street)
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1891 Census, Edmonton, Middx
Winchcombe Hill
working for BOYLE Arthur GREEN aged 44 - at Bourne Hill SCHOOL
Emily HOLMER (as transcribed) but reads HOLMES - occupation: Servant
aged 44, birth year: 1847, Fressingfield, SUFFOLK
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1881 Census: Eynsford, Kent
District 6: Page 19
Greens Shop
Emily HOLMES - Boarder, aged 35 - unmarried, born Freshingfield, Suffolk - Domestic Servant(other person listed: Mary A SMITH aged 29, Grocer) born Crokenhill, Kent)
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Witnesses at his marriage in 1894 were Frank Sweet and Harriett Skinner.
Yes, after his marriage he is on record; but I would love to find him in 1871, 81 and 91. His mother Emily is on 81, 91 censuses, but not him.
Thanks
Pam
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Obviously Emily kept in contact with her Son throughout her life - as Probate lists her son
1920
Emily HOLMES of 171 Waterloo Road, Norwich, Spinster, died 13 September 1920 - 2 Oxford Street, Norwich
Admin (with WILL) Norwich, 13 September to Howard George HOLMES - House Furnisher's Manager.
Effects: £2,817 11s.
Does the Will give any additional information ?
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Howard could have trained as an Upholsterer on the GWR railways - as did my x Grandfather -
? at times many railway men went abroad
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Yes a fascinating will, but no information about where Howard George had been after his (illegitimate) birth until he marries.
He inherits well, his mother had died just a few weeks after her (wealthy, childless) brother who had left mega-money to her, and he inherited it almost all in turn !!
I would like to find out who was taking care of him in his first 20 years of life! No trace yet found.
Interesting comment re upholstery. Thanks, Pam
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Have you ever eliminated
1861 St Pancras, Grays Inn Lane (same area as Emily was in late 1860's)
John J CAMPLIN - 37 - married Cab Driver - born Middlex St Giles
Theodosia CAMPLIN - aged 38, Straw Bonnet Maker (seems have died in 1868 July/August/Sept Qtr)
? think he is John Bowler CAMPLIN (G)
This tree is on Ancestry - and John CAMPLIN can't be found after his wife's death - but a brother died in Australia
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There are two threads to this story, one looking for the birth of Howard George Holmes http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784707.0 and this one looking for details of his marriage and whether that could assist me in locating him after his birth in 1869 and before his marriage in 1894.
His birth as Howard George Holmes gives no father, but his baptism gives the names: Howard George Kamplin, son of John Kamplin and Emily Holmes. Abode Queens Road.
I think I will never know or prove Howard's father, there doesn't seem to be any mention of Kamplin again.
Still wonder where Howard George is 1869 - 1894... and mother Emily in 1871... My guess is he met his bride Florence in London where she was in service in 1891, they went back to Bristol, her home, to marry, then came back to London, until, in the 1900's returning to Bristol for the rest of their lives, he dies in 1952.
Thanks for all the help.