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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: MazG on Friday 30 March 18 00:01 BST (UK)
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My uncle Henry Francis Samuels was in the Irish Guards, born in folkestone in 1921 I believe he joined for WW2 but was definitely in post war as I went to London and saw him on guard. I would now like to find his regimental number and as much as I can about him. Also at that time did his mother or grandfather have to have been born in Ireland for him to join the Irish guards?
Maz
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
All post 1920 service records are held by the MOD and not online. You can apply for a copy:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0
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think the guards regiments keep there own records as well.
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A link for Guards records:
http://www.theguardsmuseum.com/Family-Research
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I'd check if they still keep his records at Wellington Barracks - I seem to remember reading a few years ago the Guards had passed them on to Manning and Records in Glasgow and they are now held with the rest on the British Army's.
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Many thanks for all your helpful replies which I am sure will give me a good start.
MazG
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Good evening,
Records are definately not at Wellington Barracks. They were razed to the ground about 3 or 4 years ago. Now all blocks of flats.
Not sure where the Guards records are kept now.
John915
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Back again,
Ignore that, being stupid again. I was thinking of the other main guards barracks in Chelsea Bridge Rd. They were the ones demolished.
So all guards and household cavalry records still kept at Wellington barracks, Birdcage Walk.
John915
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Back again,
Ignore that, being stupid again. I was thinking of the other main guards barracks in Chelsea Bridge Rd. They were the ones demolished.
So all guards and household cavalry records still kept at Wellington barracks, Birdcage Walk.
John915
They were transferred to Manning and Records in Glasgow sometime ago. The Guards no longer hold them.
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Hi
Henry Francis samuels is my grandfather. My father never knew h8m as he left when he was little. I’d appreciate any info about him or his ancestry that you could help me with. I also believe I have his guards number somewhere. I will try and f8nd it for you.
Many thanks Janice
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Unfortunately there are very few records of soldiers from WW2 available online. The MOD still holds these soldiers' documents and you can apply for a copy if you have your gf's death certificate. https://www.apply-deceased-military-record.service.gov.uk/
A Private HF Samuels service number 45412 was taken prisoner of war by the Japanese, but since the Irish Guards weren't in the Far East I don't think that was your gf. There is a Guardsman H Samuels with the service number 2719256 who served in the 1st Battallion Irish Guards in Palestine in the period 1945-48, although that may be too late to be your gf. This last information comes from the Irish Guards thread on the WW2Talk (http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/2719256-h-samuels-1-irish-guards.81950/) website and is taken from the medal rolls at TNA.
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Medal roll entry for 2719256 Gdsm Samuels H 1st Bn IG
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A Guardsman in the IG with the number 2719252 - that is 4 lower than Guardsman Samuels H - enlisted on 15 August 1939. A gdsm with the number 2719272 enlisted on the 24th August. That means that if Gdsm Samuels is your gf, he will have enlisted between 15 and 24 August 1939.
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Hi Janice,
FindMyPast has been playing up for me this weekend so I haven't managed to get anywhere with the usual searches there. However I have found a Henry Francis Samuels born 21 August 1921 with the birth registered at Elham in Kent, mother's maiden name Woods. The same person died in 1994 in Somerset and the death was registered at Sedgemoor in the second quarter of the year. Could this have been your gf?
If so, it would fit with the Guardsman who joined the Irish Guards in August 1939, having just reached the age of 18.
I haven't been able to pin down an exact Samuels/Woods marriage for his parents, which presumably occurred in the early years of the twentieth century, due to the aforementioned problems with FindMyPast, but there are three possibles:
Richard H Samuels m. Agnes F Wood Q1 1921 Dorking
Frederick George Samuels m. Eliza Wood Q2 1906 Hackney (see below)
Edwin William Samuels m. ? Mary Pearson Wood Q4 1903 Hendon.
Frederick George Samuels b. 1885 enlisted at Stratford (London) on 13 August 1914 and went on to serve in the 8th Bn King's Shropshire Light infantry. He was 5ft 25/8 inches tall and weighed 117 lbs on enlistment. Religion CofE. His trade was cabinet maker. His address was 36 De Beauvoir Crescent, Hackney. His WW1 service record has survived. His date of marriage was 24 June 1906 at Holy Trinity, Dalston. During his service the following children were recorded:
Frederick George b. 29 April 1910
Albert Edward b. 14 April 1912
Alexander Charles b. 31 December 1913
Eliza Georgina b. 16 January 1915
A Frederick George Samuels plus Eliza, Albert Edward and 4 others appear in the 1921 census in London, but they are not at 36 De Beauvoir Crescent, Hackney. This might make it less likely that they are the parents of the Henry Francis Samuels born near Folkestone two months after the 1921 census. That said, nothing relevant shows up for Richard and Agnes Samuels in the 1921 census.
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Janice,
FindMyPast seems to be behaving this afternoon and so I've made a bit more progress. Would I be right in thinking that your gf married Rose E Compton in Warminster in 1942 and they went on to have a son with the initials TF? If I am right, you will be aware that this son later married, also in Warminster, and had two daughters in Trowbridge, one of whom is named Janice A*. Because of the rules on Rootschat, we must not name or include details of people who might still be alive, so I won't add more, and in any case you will already be aware of all these more recent details.
Rose E Compton was born 15 April 1919, the daughter of Walter J Compton and Annie F Bromham. In September 1939 Rose was living with her widowed mother Annie at 8 Jubilee Terrace, West Street, Warminster and was employed as a glove welter. My guess would be that Henry Samuels was attending a course at the School of Infantry in Warminster when he met Rose. I haven't found a death for Rose Samuels.
It is most likely that in March 1943 Henry left the UK with his battalion and arrived in Tunisia to take part in the North African campaign. Following the Allies success in North Africa the Irish Guards took part in the Anzio landings in Italy. It is therefore quite likely that Henry didn't get back to the UK until April 1944, which was presumably the first time he saw his son. He would only have been there for a couple of months before his battalion took part in the Normandy landings in June 1944.
* Again, without giving the details, I am amused that FindMyPast have transcribed your name from your marriage as James!